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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2007 : 14:40:19
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I find myself wondering to what degree physical deconditioning is holding back my progress. I know Sarno believes that one should not have debilitating pain even if sedentary, however I wonder to what degree six months of virtually no exercise except walking up and down the stairs of my home and minimal walking around it, have taken a toll.
I notice so many on this board are athletic and spend time in the gym, running etc. Do you think that after a time, the lack of physical stress on your joints actually weakens them, leading to more pain? Do you simply walk with stiff burning painful legs in the hopes it gets better and better?
If you put aside all things TMS and just failed to get adequate physical exercise for six months, do you think your body would be in pain simply as a result of the inactivity? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 15:15:31
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No, you should not have severe pain as a result of lack of exercise, as long as you have been up and moving around some for most days. You might feel a little stiff and tired. If you are truly bed-bound I think it's a different case, but that's rare to see here.
But yes, deconditioning does happen. If you have hardly left the house, don't try to go for a 3 mile walk the first day. Increase your activity gradually, to the extent that you are confident mentally and able to tolerate physically. Still, our bodies are very resilient and respond extremely well to activity. I was riding 20 miles in a day on my bike within the first few months of getting back on for a short jaunt.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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painintheneck
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 15:42:38
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lidge,
I am in PT right now and doing strengthening exercises and I assure you, after doing nothing an effort to protect my neck, I am so out of shape that I am feeling it. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 16:01:43
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I've done very little moving in the past 6 months owing to both the neck and back/leg pain. Of course I have pain at rest too, but less.
I have been trying very hard to resume normal activities, but become alarmed as I feel that I can walk only a fraction of what I could before. I can use a recumbent bicycle where no weight is put on my legs, but putting weight while walking makes my legs increasingly stiff and painful. It starts messing with my mind again- and I start thinking this MUST have at least some physical cause.
I take heart in reading about those who take months to recover. There must be a reason. I keep reading the same page of MBP where Sarno talks about the pain being the worst possible- I try to remind myself that indeed it can feel this bad but not be serious. I wish the course of improvement was straight and steady but have found it to be an uphill battle with lots of backsliding. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 20:08:05
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lidge, sitting around and getting very litle or no exercise has not helped your situation has it? Oh, if I could just stay off my feet and let my joints and muscles rest up, every thing will get better. Sorry, that ain't going to work.
Does sitting around and getting very little or no exercise make you have severe pain? NO
"Do you simply walk with stiff burning legs in hopes it gets better and better?" YES
I'm a big believer in (if you don't use it, you lose it).
Set small goals for yourself. Leave the house and walk down the street you live on for a ways and then back. Take your time. Enjoy the fresh air.
We both know that you can not possibly injure yourself by taking a slow walk.
Increase your distance just a little every day. Do it before or after your daily Sarno home work.
I'll bet within a couple of weeks you will look forward every day to your walk.
lidge, you have to overcome the FEAR FACTOR.
Don't give up. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 08:36:37
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Thanks Electraglide man-
I was thinking of that exact phrase- use it or lose it -bouncing around in my mind if some of the pain is lack of use etc.
In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter if I do the things I need to recover. I guess the one good thing about having pain at rest is that it keeps you from laying in bed all day! |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 21:04:40
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Be assured, lidge, you haven't done any permanent damage to your body by resting.
It is DEFINITELY a TMS thing to start fearing injury as a result of treating the pain. I have had these same fears, and overcoming them is not easy, especially when I feel a little ache or some pressure in a new place.
I just repeat to myself, "I am strong, my body can do this. Just do it."
When I am having some doubts, I often think of my 89 year old grandma who can still get around the house and beyond. I think of the senior citizen at church who rides her bike 100 miles every summer. Or, I think of a woman my age who lived 100 years ago and had to do lots of physical chores or work hunched in a factory for 10 hours a day-- our bodies are workhorses by design.
And that's the other thing -- the little ache or what not isn't going to damage you either, so you CAN just do it, even when faced with some discomfort.
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 08:26:51
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Sorry folks but what has happened this last night has me reeling. My whole lower body is on fire. My bones are aching and hot. I want to jump out of my skin. I'm still waiting on some blood tests, but I think I have TMS and something else as well. I tried to just get by yesterday, but this is not aches and pains. I'm back to square one.
Please someone tell me that they have felt this too. I want to jump out of my skin. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 09:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Sorry folks but what has happened this last night has me reeling. My whole lower body is on fire. My bones are aching and hot. I want to jump out of my skin. I'm still waiting on some blood tests, but I think I have TMS and something else as well. I tried to just get by yesterday, but this is not aches and pains. I'm back to square one.
Please someone tell me that they have felt this too. I want to jump out of my skin.
sounds like "reflex sympothy" or "Sympathetic reflex syndrome" can't remember what it's called. I'ts mentioned in MBP as TMS equivalent. Hope youre in the midst of a flare up that will be over soon. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 10:11:27
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Skizzik-
I'm trying so hard to get past this but its got me so frantic. If this is all TMS - I cannot let it win. I keep reading how severe TMS can be- burning, etc. If I am thinking psychologically, but still feel the fear and distress of the pain, I wonder if I can ever get better. I defy anyone not to feel frantic when feeling certain kinds of pain. Can the brain do what it is supposed to do when the fear is still there?
If indeed the pain is oxygen deprivation of the sciatic nerve or whereever, how long does it take to reverse this?
It will be almost a week since I saw TMS doctor and was told its TMS.
I was able to get through the exam and lecture but did not feel any relief- quite the contrary. I know the dr. said this could be a sign of success- your unconsious fighting back. I just hate this. I need to get on with my life already.
Carbar- gosh if this was discomfort- I could deal with that. I just want to cry when its really bad- there is nothing to relieve it-how do you cool off hot burning aching bones?
Sorry to vent- I know how ludicrous this sounds.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 12:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Sorry to vent- I know how ludicrous this sounds.
Hardly....
Trust me...these are thoughts we've said, and or say all the time. And we are all here cause we think/thought we were unique, and out of the billion people on this planet, feel no-one has gone thru what we're going thru.
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 12:37:34
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| lidge, you still believe your problem is physical even though your TMS Doctor has told you different. In the mean time the TMS Grimlin will continue to slap you around until you get the results of your blood test and stop thinking physcal. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 13:01:59
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Thanks guys- this is just so frustrating- I can't argue with anything said here.
This whole business of talking to your unconscious is something that must take some of us longer. I try to compare it in my mind to those times you tell yourself you have to wake up at a certain time and then somehow you wake up just at that time w/o an alarm clock. I try to imagine I can tell myself that I must wake up without pain or sleep without pain etc. But I suppose in the first example there is no internal opposition to what you want (waking up) whereas with TMS there is huge resistance and it will not respond to one or two feeble commands. But I try to think of that "waking up on time" thing as
proof that we can indeed alter what happens in our unconscious. Its just very disheartening to fail over and over.
Yes there is still a glimmer in my mind that there is a physical problem for at least some of this. I also try to remember that it can take a long time to rewire the circuitry. I just would love some little sign that I'm moving in the right direction. I sort of feel as if I am driving with a blindfold on. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 09:20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Yes there is still a glimmer in my mind that there is a physical problem for at least some of this.
Be honest with yourself. It is more than a glimmer. You are obsessive about the physical symptoms.
This is typical. But you have to choose a path. See physicians, have blood tests, CT Scans, whatever it takes to rule out serious disease. Assuming the tests are normal you need to decide if you are going to commit to doing the work, which in your case might include psychotherapy, because it seems that you have great levels of anxiety to go along with your pain. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 12:26:58
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Call it a glimmer, obsession - its a matter of degree- yes there are outstanding tests that may explain some of the pain.
My vitamin D level and bone density were very low. Also some thyroid issues recently discovered. There was a forum member named JimmyJimmy who went to a TMS doctor for years, lost inches of height and went along thinking everything was TMS.
Am I a classic TMS personality - Yes. Was Jimmy one too- probably. Does that mean everything is TMS- No.
Its a wonderful luxury to have nothing at all show up abnormal. While that abnormality may account for some pain, its hard to figure out what is what.
I am already doing the work, but not feeling relief. I asked the TMS doctor about psychotherapy and he felt I should give it a month. In order to see the doctor when he was giving the lecture, I perhaps went before totally ruling out in my mind that there may be a physical aspect. I can't change that now.
Anxiety is there and grows with every failed attempt to return to normal activities. Perhaps I'm a little too human not to have 6 months of pain make me obsess.
I do agree about choosing a path. This is a difficult thing to do when your mind tells you that you have TMS and non-TMS issues. Perhaps that part of us that needs to be convinced doesn't respond to such subtleties and distinctions.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Bertrand Russell |
Edited by - lidge on 11/11/2007 14:27:53 |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 15:52:21
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"deconditioning" sounds like some sort of syndrome. Gives it more power. Call it what it is. "out of shape."
Describing pain in detail without accompanying brain talk gives it more power. You reinforce it by describing it in detail.
It is one thing to say to yourself, "My back is burning really bad today. What is on my brain plate? What is going on in my life to keep making this worse?"
It is another thing (even if there is a physical cause to some of it, we are not your doctors and cannot help you with that)to say, over and over, in writing even, "my back burns, the pain radiates down this way or that, etc, etc," and then leave it in the physical realm. You are training your brain to only think physical by only describing the physical.
You can help your chances of improvement by accompanying EVERY pain description or mention, verbal or written, with a psychological comment or question directed at your brain. It doesn't take 100% belief, commitment, or even 100% TMS to have that benefit you.
WORDS are power. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 16:41:49
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| I have been responding to the pain by talking, writing, thinking psychologically but to no benefit so far. Maybe like you I should adopt a mad as hell at my life attitude. - I'm been trying more of the inner child thinking (be good and you'll get an ice cream- ala Brady). Maybe scrap that approach. If this were a movie, it would be closer to The Exorcist than To Kill a Mockingbird. |
Edited by - lidge on 11/11/2007 16:43:22 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 17:39:03
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quote:
I have been responding to the pain by talking, writing, thinking psychologically but to no benefit so far.
Can the brain do what it is supposed to do when the fear is still there?
If indeed the pain is oxygen deprivation of the sciatic nerve or whereever, how long does it take to reverse this?
Oxygen deprivation can literally be reversed in an instant. It isn't always but it can be. And it leaves no residue of pain once fully reversed.
You keep saying that you have given TMS a chance for a month and you are still having problems. However, given the level of doubt you are still having, you really have not given it a chance. The doubt is the entry point for the pain. You can't do what you need to do if you are still doubting and thinking "Maybe some is TMS and some isn't". When I first read the book that is what I concluded. Oh yeah, maybe my back pain is TMS, but really, my RSI has to be real. I journaled on and off, and did some of the recommended list-making for pressures, and rage-acknowledging, etc. You know what happened? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I had to commit to my TMS experiment before anything happened: commit to stop obsessing on pain, commit to stop fearing so much, commit to challenge my doubts every time they came up.
It's totally normal to go through a period of denial and fear. Like I said, I did for six months, and still woke up in the middle of the night with burning pain in my arms and was constantly working my trigger points looser and feared I'd be disabled for good. My lack of belief meant that whatever mental actions I was taking had no scope to be effective. Eventually, I was so desperate to achieve something I wanted (a real job in my field) that I committed totally, and my life turned around.
There may be concrete medical actions you need to take to assure yourself that certain things are not physical. But your trial for whether you have TMS hasn't truly started until you commit.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 19:01:57
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Lidge,
I have had the EXACT same symptoms you are currently having. Please listen Lidge. I know that you're panicking but I can state most certainly that TMS can be this extreme. Fire going down the lower half is radial sensations that can be caused by drop in blood flow. It can feel like fire is shooting down your legs and can be at a level 10 pain.
I haven't posted here lately so I'm not aware if you went to a TMS doctor and have been diagnosed with TMS. If so, I gave you the contact info for my therapist. Please try and call him once you are diagnosed if you haven't already been. I know the pain you're in, trust me.
If it is TMS you have, it is a severe form. We are the extreme version of this, and rarely do people get this bad. Like you I haven't seen many on this board at the level you and I are. Just know that it CAN get this bad, and that you are in some serious spasms or pain battle.
I feel really bad for you. It isn't easy. All I can do is tell you to do the TMS work like your life depended on it, because it does. That's all I can say aside from some pseudo online diagnosis I'm not qualified for.
Hang in there, and try to call the person I referred you too. From what I see from your posts, you have more work than the usual TMS sufferer to accomplish. It doesn't mean you're "bad" just that you have what is known as a "pain body" and are highly sensitive to this stuff.
If you have free time, I can talk to you one of these days on the phone maybe, to help sort the pain reaction out. But I strongly believe you need "professional" assistance with it. |
Edited by - la_kevin on 11/11/2007 19:05:38 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 08:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
I have been responding to the pain by talking, writing, thinking psychologically but to no benefit so far.
And "so far" is exactly how long?
Those who put a timetable on their recovery typically fail.
Those who have high expectations typically fail.
Those who take a long term view and just do the work without attempting to track their progress, and just take it day by day, are more likely to have lasting relief. |
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 09:19:35
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My experience has been this. I had a major set of spasms around June. I got 80-90 better in about 2 months. But the lingering twinges or pains when I got up after sitting for a while lingered on and on.
Three weeks ago I decided I needed to get back to working out. Weight, cholesterol were the two big reasons. Believe me I was very afraid to get back into it. But I dove into a pretty intense workout routine.
* 3 days a week weight lifting ( pretty intense ) and
* 3 days a weekCardio - Running with full sprints and interval training.
Prior to this, I felt cautious jogging across the lawn or a parking lot. Feeling like my back was going to "grab" if I did too much.
The amazing thing is that working out not only DIDN'T bring on any new pain, but diminished the remaining symptoms I had been dealing with. It's as if doing the actual workout sent a strong message to my subconscious saying - yep, it's TMS or I'd never be able to do what I just did.
As a result, the twinges are fewer and farther between and their severity much decreased.
At some time we are going to have to return to physical activity. In my case, I should have started sooner.
Dan |
Edited by - Webdan65 on 11/12/2007 09:20:26 |
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Is Deconditioning Ever a Factor?
