| Author |
 Topic  |
|
miche
Canada
283 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2007 : 11:37:50
|
A classic example of the power of emotions in pain is the work of Dr. John Sarno, a physician who focuses on treating patients with severe recalcitrant low back pain. So severe they went for surgery. But the patients he saw not only had surgery, they failed the surgery. So his entire population was the worst of the worst low back pain patients.
And in this very difficult group, he was getting over 80% improvements by only addressing the emotional element of the pain.
The tool that has worked the best in my experience is energy psychology, which is quite simply the most amazing tool I have ever seen to improve -- if not eliminate -- many types of pain. This tool has produced more miracles that I have witnessed than any other approach, and many of them have occurred after very brief interventions.
There are many types of energy psychology techniques but the one used the most is The Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), which is currently being used by more than 15,000 psychologists.
The Emotional Freedom Technique has also been used, successfully, in the treatment of breakthrough cancer pain. Some of the examples and testimonials are listed in related articles below.
EFT is not only a drug-free approach for pain management of all kinds (including cancer), but it can also treat the side effects associated with conventional drugs. It borrows from the principles of acupuncture in that it helps you balance our your subtle energy system, and it helps resolve underlying, often subconscious, negative emotions that may be exacerbating your physical pain.
By stimulating (tapping) well-established acupuncture points with your fingertips, you re-balance your energy system, which tends to dissipate pain. Getting involved in your own pain management program can be an essential part of your healing, and EFT can be a vital, drug-free component of your recuperation.
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 13:08:21
|
The Emotional Freedom Technique is a pain management program. I personally am not interested in pain management. I am interested in pain elimination. If it works for you, then congratulations. I plan to read more on this and comment further............
It is interesting that EFT does recognize the role of emotions on human health but, unlike Sarno, teaches that negative emotions are caused by disturbances in the body's energy field. This is a physical explanation of the pain. Dr. Sarno, on the other hand, teaches these emotions are generated in reaction to past trauma, personality traits and current stressors.
In the Wikipedia entry of EFT it states:
"EFT has been labeled as pseudoscience in The Skeptical Inquirer magazine, based on what the journal describes as its lack of falsifiability, reliance on anecdotal evidence, and aggressive promotion via the Internet.[6] Gary Craig, the developer of EFT, has argued that placebo-controlled studies of EFT are impossible, because tapping anywhere on the body will manipulate "energy meridians". Skeptics have asserted that such an argument renders EFT untestable via the scientific method, and therefore a pseudoscience."
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emotional_Freedom_Techniques&printable=yes)
The same kind of criticism has been leveled at TMS and Dr. Sarno's work.
see also: http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-07/thought-field-therapy.html
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 10/17/2007 13:32:31 |
 |
|
|
miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 16:23:03
|
| I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YOUR BODY'S ENERGY FIELD ORIGINATES IN THE BRAIN |
|
|
|
stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 16:39:27
|
| What "energy field"?? Define energy. Most alternative-healing proponents who use this term just use it as a catch-all phrase that sounds remotely scientific, or at least mysterious. Ive looked at EFT, emofree etc, and to me it screams "PLACEBO"!! Nothing wrong with that, per se, incidentally, since i personally think the placebo effect (that is, the effect of the psyche/emotions on healing) is a real one and ought to be studied big time. But couching the process in pseudo-scientific terms does everyone big disfavor, IMHO. If it quacks like a duck, it usually is one. Tap away all day if it makes you feel better, but arguing this is a "rebalancing of energy...blah blah blah" is complete foolishness without evidence in the form of double blind study. |
|
|
|
JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 17:25:46
|
Not a huge fan of EFT myself but its not a pain management program.
Just because there isn't a structural component to TMS pain, doesn't mean that there isn't a physical component to overall great health. I don't think anyone can be completely healthy (mentally, emotionally, spiritually etc...) if they have physical issues such as tight muscles, being overweight, addictions etc...
|
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 17:59:24
|
I have no idea if EFT helps in any way, but I think Miche's use of the phrase energy field was simply a way of saying that how we feel resides in the brain. Yes, alternative medicine folk use these
touchy feely phrases but I think her point is well taken regardless of the word used.
While its hard for me to imagine that merely tapping helps us in
any long lasting way, its also hard for me to imagine that people
overcome long term health issues by merely reading one of Sarno's books. Yet that is what many of them say. That is what Sarno says in his books. If you didn't get better through TMS - would you believe such testimonials? Perhaps, as in TMS, just realizing that
the pain is emotionally based helps a person, the tapping is just the
"gimmick". |
|
|
|
csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 19:11:23
|
| So try it, Miche, and see if you benefit. If so, you win! |
|
|
|
miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 22:56:47
|
I sent in an article written by Dr Mercola with the sole intention of showing that someone else believed in Dr Sarno , my mistake was to print the entire article . I was not promoting EFT in any way , shape or form for the simple reason that I do not know enough about it. Having said that I intend to find out what it is all about so I can make form my own opinion on the subject. I know from experience that massage therapy has released some kind of emotion from my body as I found myself in tears for no reason I could think of after one session, maybe tapping offers the same kind of release, then again it could all be a gimmick , I cannot imagine anyone judging the pros and cons of anything that he or she has not tried for themselves, having said this I thank all of you who have responded with an open mind  |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:41:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by miche
I cannot imagine anyone judging the pros and cons of anything that he or she has not tried for themselves
I haven't tried rubbing raw squid all over my body as a form of treatment either but I will continue to discuss the cons of doing so. And with that said, this is my 1000th post......
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 10/18/2007 07:42:13 |
|
|
|
csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 09:25:09
|
Miche,
I think you should contact this doctor and see if he can put you in contact with some pain patients who have recovered using his techniques. If they exxist, perhaps they can boost your confidence, breaking the fear cycle. Most treatments to help us have failed because we thought they would fail, IMO. If you are interested in relieving your pain and not advancing a theory of pain resolution that has been ineffective in your own experience, why not try other means of tackling the emotional aspect and see what happens?
I don't understand the insistence on 100% Sarno adherence from people who, by their own admittance, can't even prove his theory correct in their own experience, even after years of practice. Your post could be valuable in your own experience or to others who have tired of writing about their childhood and getting no relief, regardles of opinions to the contrary. If I were in your shoes, I would welcome any and all relief, even placebo. Best of luck! |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 09:41:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by csmoon
I would welcome any and all relief, even placebo
You might say that now, but then read Dr. Sarno's comments on the "symptom imperative" and you will may just change your views on that. With TMS, a desperate person may resort to a physical modality and find relief only to have another symptom show up elsewhere in the body- sometimes even more frightening than the original symptom.
It is imperative that we - who have TMS - come to the realization that our pains are brought about by psychological states and that physical modalities are not going to alleviate those symptoms. When one's brain chooses to generate pain people can rub and tap various parts of their body all they want, but until they address the real source of the pain the symptoms will continue. TMS is both the diagnosis and the cure.
As for your statement: "I don't understand the insistence on 100% Sarno adherence from people who, by their own admittance, can't even prove his theory correct in their own experience, even after years of practice," I would love for you to elaborate on that more. The failure to recover is not an indication of the incorrectness of Dr. Sarno's ideas, but the unwillingness of the person's unconscious mind to fully embrace TMS concepts and to reject all physical explanations for the pain. The failure to full recover is not on Dr. Sarno as he has a decades old proven track record of success.
I also want to note two things here. First, many of us on this board have tried a variety of physical treatment modalities to no avail. We are well aware of the plethora of modalities out there which are claiming to relieve physical symptoms, but also know that most of this stuff is quackery, including the very shady Kevin Trudeau (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau)
Second, this is not the first time that EFT has been mentioned on this forum. It keeps cropping up every six months or so, then fades away. The main reason for that is it runs contrary to what Dr. Sarno has been both teaching and demonstrating for over the past 3 decades.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 10/18/2007 10:48:10 |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 10:43:53
|
I think the question that I'm interested in is whether EFT can be used with TMS Therapy, with the understanding, of course, that one must do the things Sarno lays out to effectuate long lasting cure.
So many of the books and advice on here concentrate on talking to the inner child. In Sopher's book (I think it was him) he talks about offering it ice cream etc (reward) for not producing symptoms. Perhaps EFT with the tapping is just another means of trying to speak to that inner child,and may be a help for alot of us that may have difficulty doing that.
I am as skeptical as anyone could be about all of these therapies-but my feeling is that if EFT helps in some way to facilitiate a person's ability to "think psychological" it may be helpful.
I suppose the danger is that if you feel relief you may rely on the "tapping" part of it in the same way people rely on chiropractic
adjustments etc.
|
|
|
|
kelvin
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 10:59:58
|
Before you try anything Dr. Mercola recommends you should be aware that he promotes just about anything that is not main-stream - even if it is totally absurd. And, it all just seems to be about what he can sell you.
I realize that Dr. Sarno's diagnosis of TMS is not main-stream, but he didn't come up with this just for the sake of being different or to try to sell you things.
I am sorry, but Dr. Mercola is a quack.
Kelvin
Additional TMS files and links http://kelvin.gunnells.net (may not work with FireFox browser) |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 11:10:53
|
On February 16, 2005, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sent Mercola warnings on multiple products about misleading claims for products that he advertised on his website.
In defense for having the inaccurate statements for his products up in the first place, he claimed that six months prior to the FDA letter he had hired a Washington DC law firm to proactively review the claims he had already posted on the website for legal validity.
Mercola claimed that due to their internal miscommunication the law firm never completed his request. He claims to be unaware of their failure to review his website for statements until he received the letter from the FDA.
On Sept. 21, 2006 Mercola received a second warning letter from the FDA for claims made on his website in relation to "various product labels...".
Source with even more damning information at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 11:30:22
|
Is the issue here really Mercola? If Mercola believes in TMS as
well as EFT, Chiropractics, etc. does the fact he believes in it make it valid or not? If that's the case, we should dismiss TMS as well. I'd like to stick to the question as to whether EFT is compatible with TMS regardless of who (quack or not) advocates it. |
|
|
|
csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 11:50:38
|
Shawn, forget the invitation to debate. I have read all of Sarno's books, thanks. Symptom imperative is only lasting for those who continue to fear the new symptom. It's an old idea, and not one that Dr. Sarno created, by the way. Please see Claire Weekes or Abraham Low (the latter of which died when Sarno was in med school) for more in-depth discussion of said. Anyone who has suffered from anxiety can tell you that's what happens: you conquer one demon and another pops up in its place. Fear keeps them coming back. Sound familiar?
I only note the irony of the pedantic stance you often take in quoting the doctor and taking contrarian positions when someone asks a question a bit off topic given the fact that you are still in pain yourself. That says nothing about Dr. Sarno, but it should say lots about you and your need to be right and to degrade people with comments like the squid oil quip. This is shameful, but that's just my theory.
If I have wrongly interpreted your intentions, accept my apologies and have the last word. I will not post again on this thread.
|
Edited by - csmoon on 10/18/2007 12:00:43 |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 12:10:47
|
I personally don't think EFT is a good way to go if you are working on TMS. Get insight-based talk therapy instead. Your money will likely be better spent.
I generally have an open mind about alternative therapies and energy fields and that sort of thing, but I get the feeling even from my own experiences that a lot of it is the power of suggestion -- the body doing things to itself as a result of you believing it will, basically a more sophisticated form of the placebo effect. The little tricks may just work by taking you out of your normal mental state and bypass some of the stuckness that you normally have, whether phyiscal or mental, rather than there being anything magical about the tricks themselves.
My Bradshaw books, which are valuable for their inner child material, also talk some about NLP (neurolinguistic programming), which seems to be in the same category. It's not necessarily that these things don't end up working for people, but that they only work to the extent that people make them work by manipulating their own brains, so there's nothing necessarily special about the technique, no matter what fancy-sounding things they say about it.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 12:15:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by csmoon
I only note the irony of the pedantic stance you often take in quoting the doctor and taking contrarian positions when someone asks a question a bit off topic given the fact that you are still in pain yourself. That says nothing about Dr. Sarno, but it should say lots about you and your need to be right and to degrade people with comments like the squid oil quip. This is shameful, but that's just my theory.
Huh? I don't quite know where that all came from but it most certainly does not reflect my intentions on this forum. One cannot always convey their true feelings via the net without being misunderstood. It is my observation that TMSers are notorious at jumping to conclusions and acting on their conscious emotions without really examining why they behave the way they do.
My own condition - which is a clever distraction from the present discussion- has nothing to do with the fact that Joseph Mercola is a shady figure who has, in the past, been in trouble with the law for his made many unsubstantiated claims.
As for the squid comment, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the idea that one has to try every single thing before they can accept or dismiss it. Sorry for any offense, but I laughed my head off when I wrote it.
As for me wanting to be right, can you name someone who desires to be wrong? That they aspire to be wrong in all they say and do in life? I am not going to personally write something knowing full well that it is wrong. What I write is based on my own subjective experience and outside research. One can take or leave what I say as they see fit.
I do, however, find it amusing that those who constantly attack Dr. Sarno or are filled with huge amounts of doubt about what he says, yet continue to stay on this forum.
I was not attacking Miche for her posting. No doubt she had a good and noble intention in posting the article. It could, in fact, be a manifestation of he latent goodism which in turn can be a source of internal / repressed rage. You yourself, csmoon, obviously are dealing with some rage issues and you have chosen to currently take it out on me because you don't, or are currently unable to, deal with the real source of your rage. If I were to guess, however, I would surmise that you, like myself, have profound self-esteem issues stemming from your childhood and are this highly sensitive to being criticized. If I am wrong I don't wish to be.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
|
|
|
la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:24:07
|
I actually tried shoving black licorice in my socks and walking around with a rubber catsuit on to cure myself, but alas, it didn't work.
|
|
|
|
stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:24:38
|
| Shawn: ill add my 2 cents cause i can really see both sides of the coin here. I loved your squid remark personally, because miche's insinuation that those who reject EFT theory w/o trying it in practice are close minded (followed by the smug approval icon) was out to lunch. On the other hand, as you may have noticed, i sometimes get turned off by your assertion that Sarno has the answers to everything. Opinions on this board are often strongly driven by personal experience. I have been convinced for months now beyond all doubt that my current symptoms are psychological in origin, but despite following the Sarno routine religiously, i continue to struggle. I strongly suspect that there is more to this disorder than simple subconcious recognition. Like everyone else here, i'll continue to 'find my own way'--hopefully to a successful resolution. I see nothing wrong with criticizing counterproductive pursuits (like pursuing purported cures that have shaky hypotheses), but i also agree that pontificating about TMS/Sarno does no good. |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:40:30
|
Ok- i'll add my two cents too-
I saw nothing "out to lunch" or smug in Miche's posts. I feel like
this board continually gets bogged down in personal attacks and I can only assume its part of the monster we are all trying to conquer. Maybe its even fun for our inner child if we were to admit it.
But I think we have all come here because we have pain and want to get better. I know that is true in my case. I suppose this can't be helped on a public board. There are ways of attacking a theory or opinion without making the poster feel like s--t.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
article from Dr Mercola
