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skywalkerdude
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2004 : 14:56:23
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I have started reading more of Sarno's books, Fred Amir's book and working on the Mind-Body Workbook and my pelvic pain/prostatitis pains have increased big-time. I'm still trying to think psychologically but the pain has really come on strong this week. The pain increased after starting all of the bookwork and then 2 days ago I found out that the counselor that I was working with died of a heart attack. Is the increased pain part of "starting" the TMS work????
Mark |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 15:29:54
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Mark,
I think for most people the road to recovery is very up and down. My main problem is also with pelvic pain. I know that when I first started journaling, my pelvic pain decreased dramatically but my anxiety went through the roof and my wrist started aching terribly. But I was still relieved that the pelvic pain was better- then out of nowhere it was back full strength. This made me really question the mindbody connection and I found myself starting to really fear the pain again. I kept coming back to this board to remind myself that this is what happends with TMS and the way other people have beat it is to just keep up with the journaling and thinking psychological. Every time I really focus on this again, I get my pain back under control. However, I have the tendency to stop doing the journaling almost as soon as I start feeling better so I don't think I am getting to the root of my issues but just keep scratching the surface over and over again. I think it is likely that once chronic pelvic pain is established, there are secondary changes in muscles that are overworked from being tense all the time and it is going to take time for this to reverse itself. Just keep reading here, make your self journal and keep believing. You will get better.
Carolyn |
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n/a
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 16:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn
I think it is likely that once chronic pelvic pain is established, there are secondary changes in muscles that are overworked from being tense all the time and it is going to take time for this to reverse itself.
Don't buy into a "physical" excuse here with overworked muscles -- The pain is about TMS so treat the whole thing as TMS and the WHOLE THING WILL GO AWAY. If you give TMS a window that is open with this kind of thinking, you could be in for a slow and partial recovery.
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n/a
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 16:41:16
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| Hi Skywalk -- to respond -- yes, my pain increased and shifted to different locations. And I even had very bizzare, new symptoms. Know at TMS is crafty and will do anything to sabotage your efforts and keep you diverted from FEELING your feelings. |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 20:57:49
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I do try to keep telling myself that all of my pain is TMS but I know I don't always really BELIEVE it. So I come up with partial explanations where I tell myself 'sure some of my pain is TMS but the part that doesn't respond to my journaling or that comes back in spite of it must be due to a secondary change'. How do you make yourself believe?? My pain goes away almost completely and then comes back sometimes worse than before and in different places just like everyone describes here. People personify TMS as being sneaky and doing whatever it can that will work with you to convince you it is real. But it is not a person- how can it be sneaky? I am having a real hard time wrapping my brain around this and having the type or analytical personality that I do, my brain keeps searching for a  rational explanation for my pain which drives me to come up with my combination theories (part physical- part psychological). Help.
Carolyn |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 07:36:37
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| Actually, tms is a person. It is your unconscious, it's you! Your unconscious is capable of anything that your conscious is capable of. We speak of tms by personifying it or calling it a gremlin but let's not forget what it really is. I have been pain free all week and then last night I began having horrible pain in an old knee injury from childhood. It cracked me up! I couldn't believe my brain was actually going to try that one. I'm fine today. I really believe what sunfish is saying here. Don't buy into other excuses. Your recovery will be up and down. Most of ours are. I feel if you lose your conviction, you lose your cure. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 08:38:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn
How do you make yourself believe??
Don't struggle to believe. You can't make yourself believe anything.
Just do the work. Ignore the symptoms, don't get wrapped up in them. Don't pay them any mind. Assume that at least some of the pain is psychogenic, and explore the potential sources of repressed emotions in your life.
"Belief" will come with time, as your symptoms subside and you recondition yourself to avoid the fear and anxiety that goes with them.
You can't analyze or rationalize your way out of TMS. It is completely irrational. Analyzing and rationalizing is a defense mechanism; in effect it is a TMS symptom itself. |
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Suzanne
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 10:20:11
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Mark,
I'm the one with the pelvic pain (can't sit without spasms, etc), too.
As soon as I began the workbook and the entire anti-TMS process, my pain increased big time as well. An indescribable change in pain level. In fact, my pain jumped from bad to horrendous the day after seeing Dr. Sarno, and I had to call him the following day. He explained that this was my mind fighting the TMS diagnosis and my decision to accept TMS and fight it back. He's heard this happen numerous times. Just keep at the work. You know what's going on.
For me, the increase in pain levels was "starting" the TMS work because it was my unconscious mind's way of trying to distract me from thinking psychologically and from even focusing on the workbook, the reading, or trying to ignore the pain.
Do the workbook, ignore the pain, read, ignore the pain. The intensity is a distraction to keep you from your "job." TMS removal.
And I hope you find another counselor to work with. Finding one you feel is helpul and you're comfortable with isn't always easy.
BTW, when I began a new way of trying to kick TMS "out of my @ss" recently (couple of months), the pain again increased drastically, but within 2 weeks of persistence, it did get the hint that I was not going to take it and it "backed off" and stopped the intense, all day/night pain at the high level it was when I began the alternative methods. (which included re-reading the books, journaling, self-talk, positive input, and walking/bike riding <--2 things I'd not done since getting pelvic pain 4+ yrs. ago) |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 13:01:26
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Susie, this is an excellent interpretation as well as application to the TMS gremlin.
quote:
Actually, tms is a person. It is your unconscious, it's you! Your unconscious is capable of anything that your conscious is capable of. We speak of tms by personifying it or calling it a gremlin but let's not forget what it really is.
quote:
I do try to keep telling myself that all of my pain is TMS but I know I don't always really BELIEVE it. So I come up with partial explanations where I tell myself 'sure some of my pain is TMS but the part that doesn't respond to my journaling or that comes back in spite of it must be due to a secondary change'. How do you make yourself believe??
How do we make ourselves believe a 100% this TMS concept?
Sometimes it can be hard to understand how? And why? We are still suffering. Just because we are told it or we read it and understand, it doesn’t help us to believe. We usually need to see it in action, which is why us TMS’ers get stuck in the physical part with their recovery.
From time to time I see quotes from various resources.
Please let me offer this quote one time, from the good book .I feel it will help qualify the thought that we are looking for. And is far the best definition that I have ever read, that explains belief.
One word will be changed to be sensitive to all the readers.
“Now belief is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of the things not seen”. Heb 10:1
(original text uses the word faith in substitution to the word belief.)
I think we can apply this principle to our understanding of TMS. When we confidently believe the diagnosis and start to see the process working, Our “faith in the TMS work increases.
Always Hope For Recovery
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Edited by - kenny V on 06/11/2004 13:23:33 |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 15:28:38
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| I experienced TMS over 6 years ago in my low back and then stumbled on Sarno's first book in a used book store. I read the book in one day and immediately felt better. It made a lot of sense. I sat down with a note pad and starting writing all kinds of issues that were bothering me. It was amazing how just jotting down thoughts brought so many tears and emotions. I had no idea how impacted I was about my parents selling my childhood home and moving away. It took several months of intense mental work to stop the pain. In the end, I was able to turn the pain off within minutes of it starting. But that was then. In December I experienced what I thought was the flu in my lower back that brought on such severe muscle spasms I had to go to the emergency room. I was bedridden through the holidays. I didn't make the mind/body connection until February when one nagging pain just wouldn't go away and I wasn't 100% flexible anymore. I dusted off "the book", and read and read, but that didn't seem to help. It's now months later and my pain has increased. I take Soma (muscle relaxers) when it's really bad just to get through the day. I go to a chiropractor who is more into therapy than adjustments, so I know it's helping my circulation, but the pain still continues. I know what the source of my pain is--my job and my boss, yet I still can't get it under control. Other than that area of my life, I have nothing to worry or complain about. Most people think my life is practically perfect. I don't want my boss to "win" and I don't want TMS to "win" either. Still it's a constant struggle. I ordered Sarno's most recent book, plus Amir's book today. I hope it will help, but deep down I think I really need a psychotherapist. Do I need to choose one that is in tune with Sarno? Or do I simply focus on working through all my emotions and the pain will take care of itself? I am a believer in TMS. No doctor in the world could tell me my scoliosis is the cause of my pain anymore. If anyone out there has any suggestions (i.e., Sarno's video, consultation with Sarno, psychotherapy, etc.), I'd appreciate your input. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 15:42:55
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If you go to a chiropractor, you are not embracing TMS.
I suggest you re-read Dr. Sarno's book, and follow the treatment suggestions. Step #1 is stop all physical treatments.
If you think you know what the source of your pain is, then again you don't understand TMS. It's not as simple as saying "it's my job and my boss." In fact, TMS symptoms come from the things you don't know about.
You say: I have nothing to worry or complain about. Think again. Are you really being honest with yourself? |
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JoeW
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 16:22:55
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| JayP - you say you read Sarno's 1st book. I would defintely recommend his next two (Healing Back Pain and MindBody Prescription), as he had a much clearer idea of TMS then. |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 06:48:58
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| Thanks, Dave. You're right. I think I already knew that I shouldn't be going to the chiropractor. I was still holding on to the belief that the pain was leftover from the flu. I also know that I stated a very simply cause of my pain. This morning at 5:00 AM I laid in bed and really got to the heart of the boss/job thing. It involves lots of bad feelings that have attacked my self-worth and self-esteem. It's painful to think about. I realized how I much I was suppressing those feelings. Everyday I see my boss I have to be subconsciously reminded of those painful events, some of which were my fault. Thanks for the feedback. |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 07:16:01
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| Dave, I was scheduled to see my chiropractor today, but cancelled the appointment. The pain he puts me through is excruciating and I end up blowing my entire weekend by laying around in bed since it takes several days for the pain to subside. How stupid! Fortunately, thanks to your comment, I realized I wasn't totally embracing TMS. I felt much better this week and knew if I went to the chiropractor all it would do is make me focus on the physical. I find that when I'm fully absorbed in something at work or at home, my pain subsides. If I focus on my back, I have pain. I should be receiving my new books soon. I think they will really help. I also agree with you that sometimes TMS comes from issues you haven't yet identified. I was able to identify some "new" feelings and I think that's what's helping. Thanks. |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 08:28:30
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To Carolyn:
If you don't already have the Sarno tapes, I recommend them. I was definitely influenced by seeing Dr. Sarno and hearing him speak to patients. His confidence in the TMS diagnosis was contagious. I even replayed the tapes as I was on my rowing machine (thus strengthening my belief that my elbow pain was not structural). |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 08:48:05
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JayP,
It sounds like you are on the right TMS track. I have tried chiropractors for several stints. My conclusions are that any benefits I derived were placebo and fleeting. As soon as I got out the door and encountered environmental stressors, the benefits vanished. I worked with two chiros. who were nice, pleasant, sincere, people, but the bottom line was it cost me a lot of money and no significant real difference. The focus is entirely on the physcial. My thinking was that there could be a catalyst effect but it was all temporary soothing. The same with accupuncture. The offices are quiet, soothing places. They afforded me a temporary escape from the rat race environment of NorCal. I think it's a conditioning process. To me the therapists offices are quiet escapes, heat lamps, pleasant piped in music, tastefully decorated, snacks, gentle touching (I even found Rolfing soothing).
Over a period of years I have found that all these therapies are temporary escapes from TMS stress. A hot tub would do as much good for much less money. I still get massages but not to "fix" anything accept for soothing sore muscles and to escape the rat race for an hour or two. I have nothing against new age therapies for fun, "personal growth", soothing, etc., but to hope a physical treatment will cure TMS-a psychological condition-is unrealistic.
Sarno, in his later two books, disavowed sending patients to physical therapy, because it distracted patients from the emotional work.
JayP, back to your bike. It sounds like you are in a much safer environment for biking. If you are gung ho on getting one, what the heck, go for it. It's a postitve exercise and a pittance compared to doctors. |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 10:37:00
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Tom, I agree. Chiropractic and everything else is all about the placebo effect. I agree that a massage now and then is therapeutic in many aspects, and I'll probably book one soon.
How did you do in tennis yesterday? |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 11:00:15
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JimD, what tapes are you referring to? I looked on Sarno's website and only saw books and the video. Where would I be able to get the tapes?
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Wilf
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 11:21:17
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| The "tapes" I got were "books on tape" - Healing Back Pain read by Dr. Sarno. There are 2 tapes and they are excellent. I got them from Chapters here in Canada, but I am sure they would be available on Amazon. |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 10:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by JayP
JimD, what tapes are you referring to? I looked on Sarno's website and only saw books and the video. Where would I be able to get the tapes?
Sorry I wasn't clearer--I was referring to the video tapes. |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 14:54:26
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JimD,
Thanks for the info. Are the videos worth $90? Seems like a lot money, and I didn't want to make the investment if they weren't helpful. |
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Intense Pain
