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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2007 : 11:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny
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Anthonee, Why do you choose to let these beliefs stay with you, when they make you feel lousy about yourself in every aspect? (You don't need to asnswer this here, but I offer this question for your consideration. I asked myself the same thing and started to examine the exact "why" behind my self esteem issues.)
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It's a fair question, and appreciated. I take it in the most constructive sense. So I need to think about it more, and then I will post a response, probably as a new thread about "fears of getting older". But right off the bat I can say it has become a real source of trouble for me. I've started to identify it, and I suppose that's part of the battle.
Probably fair to say that I am ok with me as I am, or at least much more so now than ever before. I'm confident, less self conscious than ever, have no issues speaking in public, and so on. I'm really very much ok being me. But what is so difficult, is the fear that I cannot do the things I value most. Like hiking, biking, running, remodeling my attic, etc. These things are not so much about pressure to be "more than enough", but rather about being empowered to live the life that I value. It's different than not being content to be "enough", maybe more akin to "letting go" a little bit. I haven't figured how to do that just yet, or if it's even necessary (!)
Not sure if this relates well to western values, or if it's a universal issue that people face as they grow older, I'm not sure. But your thoughts are most welcome. It helps very much to see and discuss these behaviors and thought patterns with the help of others. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 13:37:09
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Armchair-
Are you only 26? What wisdom you have!
I wish I had more self knowledge at that age or even two years ago
for that matter.
Its a crime that taking care of one's emotional health is not taught in school. We are taught to know everything but ourselves. For some of us, the knowledge comes too late.
I always thought of myself as the "smartest person in the room" -after reading this board I realize how little this has served me and how wrong I have been.
I can understand in this culture how you can feel that even 26 is old-
but you are so far ahead of the game to have such self awareness at your age.
I am in my late forties and if I were honest I would say it bothers me enormously. I'm told I don't look it, though the past year has changed that alot. I feel twice my age. In a way, I look like a tired sick young person - does that make sense?
I think getting closer to the "death side" as you move into your forties must trigger internal rage.
When you feel sick everyday and are young you may rationalize it is temporary, but when you hit middle age you wonder-is this what its going to be like from now on?
AnthonyEE- I took would love to know the average age TMS hits.
I do think women and men differ in this obviously.
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 14:57:00
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
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When you feel sick everyday and are young you may rationalize it is temporary, but when you hit middle age you wonder-is this what its going to be like from now on?
Exactly! I never worried about being sick or hurt, it just went away. Now I get some problem, it sort of heals, but then comes back again as soon as I try to get back in the saddle. Then the anxiety comes. Do I live with these limitations for the rest of my life? Is this as good as it gets, and it only gets worse? What does this mean for the rest of my life? So you are exactly right.
quote:
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AnthonyEE- I took would love to know the average age TMS hits.
I do think women and men differ in this obviously.
For me it was 37-38, and then I practically fell off a cliff. Before that I was superman. I often wonder if there is a strong genetic component. Like we're all programmed to fall apart at a certain age, like the engines cut out and we're on our own from that point on... But now I know about TMS and I'm hopeful again!! Marc Sopher tells me "You're not broken!" It's the best news I've heard in several years. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 15:04:06
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AnthonyEE- you too took the words out of my mouth- "programmed to fall apart at at certain age." For me it was about two years ago.
Now, its unbearable. I feel like my body is on fire now and am trying so hard to believe. I'm being told to try a neuropathic drug
and maybe it would be the charm. But I'm so sick of feeling sick
and wonder why its one thing after another, each "thing" being worse
than the one before it. There must be some emotional component.
For women, there is always the hormonal component so we have that extra layer of misery. Yes, there should be another thread for this! |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 19:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Yes, there should be another thread for this!
I think all of this is completely relevant to the topic of TMS and western values. It's Western values that necessitated the need for TMS. Conflicting values! We are culturally schizophrenic!
We must be good people: oh but don't forget Look out for number one!
We must not be jealous: But I will go into debt for things I want.
We must live to make others happy, putting others' needs before our own: But I better be good to myself, because nobody else will.
Perhaps the pressures of what it means to be a man or a woman are comparable. TMS is an EOP (equal opportunity pain-giver)!
As for age, I can remember suffering from a doctor diagnosed psychosomatic illness when I was about 11. Now I look back on my 37 years I can remember MANY TMS manifestations. I got a lot of illnesses no one else experienced, usually around special events or extra stressful times.
I think most people have TMS manifestations, but I think it's certain personality types that are more susceptible to the more "intense" cases. The harder we run, the harder we fall. (This thought has more to do with personalities than Western culture; perhaps begging the question "How much are our personalities influenced by culture?" I digress--but don't I usually? LOL!  )
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Edited by - Penny on 10/11/2007 19:11:16 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2007 : 00:33:13
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lidge, thanks, that's a nice thing to hear! Sometimes I feel lucky that my body decided to 'crash and burn', so to speak, at 22 and not 42. But at the time I did think "Oh no, I've already worn myself out. I'm going to be good for nothing for the rest of my life, and I've hardly even had a life!" Maybe this has made me a bit sensitive to the "passage of time" pressures. (Other friends around my age don't seem to really notice their turning birthdays, but I don't really share this with people, so perhaps they are quietly concerned too.) I'm glad to say that fortunately that was not the case, and barring serious illness or truly awful physical shape (on the level of morbid obesity), I don't think it's any more likely to be true that you're worn out in your forties than in your twenties. People are running marathons in their forties these days (it was in the newspaper as a "new trend" :-)).
Anyway, crashing and burning, and my subsequent discovery of Sarno after 3 years and prompt recovery, has given me a lot of time to rethink my life, and I'm grateful for it. I've spent a lot of years showing off my intellect and repressing my emotions, and I'm reorganizing my priorities now. Though I have a long way to go I'm glad I'm beginning to show a little wisdom to balance it out. :-)
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 10/13/2007 00:45:58 |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2007 : 20:45:12
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Anthonee,
I read myself in everthing that you have said. I'm 42 now and I feel that my life, body, etc....went in the toilet. I used to work out all the time, bike, tennis,etc... All in all, I felt super, now in the space of two years I feel that I've aged 20 years. I don't deal with the horrible pain that I felt for along time, but it's been replaced almost with a certain resignation that I'm incapable of decent athletic performance. I'm 20 pounds overweight, most of my clothes don't fit anymore, and like you I am constantly reminded of my diminished physical abilities. My sex appeal. My thinning hair. The list goes on....
I've basically been in a mid-life crisis for the last two years. I no longer suffer from outright pain, but rather a dull, listless and unmotivated physical sensation. I suppose, in a sense, that I have mild depression. I'm trying to work at bringing myself out of this funk. I'm certainly much more aware of my mortality and I "hate it". I miss feeling robust and healthy. Years ago I conquered my back pain, knee pain, etc...I've always been plagued by TMS since about 17. I suppose now that my TMS is manifested by mild depression, which is practically as bad, in a certain sense, as debilitation back pain. Ones mental state, in fact, can be every bit as debilitating as a physical problem.
On a side note, my mother is a robust 73 year old, who goes to the gym everyday and does pilates and yoga. She is without a doubt in better physical shape than I am. I envy her ability to enjoy everyday. She never seems to dwell on the past and seems very fulfilled. I suppose that attitude is something to strive for.
Regards,
Doug |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:42:47
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salamander, it does sound like you have replaced TMS with a depressive equivalent. This also happened to me -- not in retrospect surprising since I had been depressed before having pain as well -- and I ended up going to therapy to get a bump start on dealing with it. Is that an option for you?
If not, it may help to recognize that depression is essentially stagnant emotion sitting around, and to try to access the dynamic emotions that are being hidden by it. This is basically TMS emotional work with a different blocker (apathy rather than pain). I had started on that myself, with help from books by Alice Miller and John Bradshaw, which was already helpful, but it may take some time to get out of the depressed state even after you start the work, and I needed more immediate support, hence the therapy.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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lambertus
Canada
6 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 13:51:12
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okay, I'm not going to make any friends here with this one but what about religious values and expectations? Do they not excert pressure similar to western values and capitalism?
LL the troublemaker |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 07:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by salamander
... I suppose that attitude is something to strive for.
Doug - Sounds like you're having a similar experience. I think I've done a little better to stay out of the depression. I don't get the despondent resignation so much. But I do get insomnia now and then and feelings of anxiety. I take occasional SSRI to prevent myself from becoming unhealthy. I'm rather fortunate in that a very very low dose is effective for me, and I don't need to take it all the time. But depression is a very bad thing, and you've got to take care of it no matter what. Hopefully the techniques discussed on this forum will work in lieu of medication, but so far I'm still rather new to TMS and this forum, and I still feel like I need to resort to occasional SSRI. It really helps.
But then there's the frustration of not being able to perform the physical things I value so much. It is a challenge and a great frustration to watch the muscles become deconditioned, gaining weight, and so on.
I am very optimistic however. I have many friends that are my age and they continue to run, hike, play tennis. There should be nothing about being 40+ that precludes those things. Far from it. So I continue to remind myself of that, and maintain a positive attitude that "is something to strive for" as you say. But I get worried when a muscle or joint does not respond to exercise, or gets worse. It's a little scary to be like this.
So anyway, last weekend I went for a two mile walk, and decided to run bits and pieces of it. I didn't die. And I've been in the gym 3x per week, doing mostly elliptical trainer and stretching. So far so good. I'm working my confidence back up. My goal is to run 3x per week, and resume light strength training. I feel like I can eventually get over this mid life bump. I'm focussing on the psychological aspects of the pains, and telling myself that my body is much stronger that I feel. And hope hope hoping that as I work through the pains that the faith I'm putting in my body's ability to adapt and heal is justified.
Have you had any insights that help you overcome some of these challenges? I'd like to learn as much as I can from others how to get through this. And I'll share what I learn. It isn't normal for a 40year old to be hobbling around like a 70year old. I intend to beat this, and I will continue striving forward with that positive attitude as long as I'm able. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 09:11:18
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My 62-year-old father can out-bike me (and I'm not shabby, I can bike 40 miles in a day), plus he walks 40 minutes to and from work every day (up and down San Francisco hills), and goes to the gym sometimes to work out or play squash. So I can attest that hobbling at 40 is not required. :-)
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 10/16/2007 09:12:10 |
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salamander
85 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 10:25:34
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Thanks AnthonEE and Armchairlinguist,
You both have some great advice. It's nice to know that others are able to break through all of this. The danger, as I see it, is to fall in a resignation trap. As I've quickly found out, once you become inactive, the more out of shape you get, and the more stiff and sore you become. It's a viscious cycle. Somehow I imagine myself becoming like Willie Wonkas grandparents in the movie....just laying around all day.
I truly think that the only way out of this trap is to literally force yourself to do "something". I tend to procrastinate, when truly the only time I have is now.
I'm going to try and avoid any medications for depression, at least for awhile. Instead, I'm going to start walking as much as I can. I would like to work up to 4 miles. I think that with TMS, you can't just resume "normal" activity. For me normal was playing two hours of tennis and then biking for 60 miles. In my case, I think that "baby steps" will have to be the order of the day.
Regards,
Doug |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 10:35:23
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quote:
Originally posted by salamander
... I think that "baby steps" will have to be the order of the day.
Don't worry about baby steps. Normal for me was biking 30miles, then coming home for a 4mi run, or lifting weights. Then hiking above tree line the next day. I've since been reduced to going for a walk and being exceptionally grateful for that. It's a real adjustment, but as I say, very optimistic to return to a somewhat more active existence. You are right on when you say sitting around is not the way to go. I found that since I got less in shape because of an injury, I get injured so much easier, and then I can't exercise because I'm injured. And I get further out of shape. It is a really nasty cycle. So I'm taking baby steps as well. But always need to keep moving. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 07:31:36
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Hmmm AnthonEEE
Biking 30 miles, then coming home for a 4 mile run, or lifting weights. I would call that putting a lot of pressure on oneself. I think runners and other intense athletes get TMS not because of what they put their body through, but because the place so much pressure on themselves to perform. They set impossibly high standards and then become inwardly angry when they don't reach them.
I myself am somewhat of a couch potato.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:09:14
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You are completely right, and the pressure to perform is just the tip of the iceberg. As I've started to spend more time thinking about all this stuff, it's a little frightening how much pressure I've put on myself during my life. And on the one hand it's the reason I've been able to climb into a relatively secure comfortable place in life. But it also has it's costs...
So to come full circle, this is our western value system. Work hard and succeed. But then when you get sick it takes you by surprise. And then you learn maybe it's not the correct way to live. Being a hyper type-A successful driven personality has it's benefits and it's costs.
And I hope this (TMS) is the reason that I am having the problems that I'm having, and not because I'm getting older and having bad luck with my genes or something of that sort. TMS has a much better prognosis.
I've taken to heart much of what I've learned on this forum, I read two of the Sarno books, and journaling as much as I am able. I've been at it for just over a month now, and I'm seeing a little progress. Nothing earth shaking, but I did do some running last weekend, and I've been in the gym the last couple weeks doing some elliptical trainer and stretching. Not putting any real pressure on myself, but just trying to be (and feel) healthy. Hopefully the progress will continue over time  Thanks to all for the positive comments and advice. |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Go take a class at a university and you will feel your age, at least that is my experience.
Try teaching at a university!
I look younger than my age (36), still get carded etc., but constantly feel as if I am an ancient hag standing in the front a room filled with 19 year olds.
The other day I told my freshman english class they'd have to "do some Nancy Drew-ing," that is some detective work as part of a research paper. They had no idea who Nancy Drew was... : )
It gets to me more than I care to admit, Shawn. It's a big factor in my TMS so thanks for the reminder to stay conscious of it. |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:55:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Logan
... It's a big factor in my TMS so thanks for the reminder to stay conscious of it.
And then to drive the TMS nail in a little deeper, store owners always feel the need to post this little sticker at their front counter that says "No tobacco products will be sold to anybody not born on or before today's date of the year: 1989"
... my goodness! |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 09:31:29
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Ok Logan
I am currently taking a first year course at University and I am 43 years old.......Yes, I feel ancient as I have probably taken even more courses than the prof!!!!!
Shawn
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 09:33:20
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1989!!!!!!!!! I was out of high school 7 years by then. Yikes!!!
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 17:06:29
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Another interesting thread. I didn't think much of it before now, but now that i do, i beleive my latest severe relapse began shortly before turning 41 last year. May have some significance.
I personally wonder if our current technology is on its way to create a TMS mega-monster, because i think our evolutionary-designed bodies/psyche is unable to keep pace with the technology. I remember occasionally running into people suffering from TMS 10 yrs ago, but now it seem like everyone i meet has some "mysterious" ailment they are dealing with. This is another reason for the huge rise of Supplements etc. The other day i saw a young couple texting each other from the opposite sides of a restaurant booth--and this is common 'normal' behavior now!! Mass communication is turning us into a global community with less and less personal contact each year--this is going to seriously mess with the human psychology. |
Edited by - stanfr on 10/17/2007 17:12:55 |
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Sarno and Western Values and Aging
