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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 10:09:40
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One of the things that tipped me off that something was haywire was that venting only produced more and stronger anger. Even walking, which usually helps diffuse anger and anxiety, instead seemed to feed the anger and anxiety because I would think about stuff that was making me crazy and I would get more and more worked up instead of less.
So, my question is how do you deal with all the anger? How do you diffuse it? Especially since a bunch of it is buried out of sight but pushing really hard.
What strategies do people use to constructively approach and deal with the anger?
Yes, the journaling helps, but what about when the anger response just pops out during your day? |
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Kristin
98 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 11:03:04
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I've found that the daily things I express anger about aren't the actual things or people, I am angry at. For example, usually it doesn't take too much digging to figure out that I'm not mad at the slow driver in the fast lane, but rather at the fact that I am running this or that time consuming errand for a family member that didn't communicate a need earlier.
edit: To finish my thought...It seems that when I understand the source of the anger it generally gets diffused by acknowledging it. |
Edited by - Kristin on 09/17/2007 11:06:06 |
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csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 12:19:20
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This is a question that I can't answer for anyone. I can only share my own struggle for self-awareness. Early on in my anxiety treatment, I was given a similar assignment for anger to that in Sarno's treatment program. Make a list or lists of things that anger you and write about why.
I discovered through writing this out that there was a fear underlying all of them. I "got worked up" as you said because I feared exposure of that fear, and more directly, the symptoms that came with them.
He's a ridiculous but honest example: In high school, when I would break out in hives, it always happened when I got hot to the point of sweating, got embarrassed, or exercised. I then started to fear the symptom because it made my skin turn bright red and blotchy, which led to embarrassing questions in social situations. I was diagnosed with cholinergic urticaria. Wow! I thought I had a medical condition, but it was harmless really, just uncomfortable and embarrassing. The onset of it was telling, though, because it was at a time when I was under extreme stress and dealing with girlfriend problems for the first time in my life.
As time went on, I would react angrily to any pushiness from anyone to engage in physical activity in which I felt like an outbreak of hives was likely. I would actually fly into a fury if someone didn't accept my no response as definitive. I have since found that many angry reactions provide a suit of armor for deeply rooted insecurities and absurdities I have created in my mind to avoid discomfort and anxious reactions.
Finally, I had to face intrinsic environment (myown personality factors) as the cause of much of my anger. I worked with seven other people in a mortgage office in 2001 when rates dropped to historic lows and everyone in the free world wanted to refinance. We all had to deal with the pressure of the boom that came on in which we worked 80-100 hours a week just to keep up with demand, much less handle the orders responsibly. I was the only one who flew into rages and got anxiety symptoms. The reason for this seemed obviouus to me upon observation. My temper substituted for the fear of not doing my job well enough to be recognized as exceptional, fear of anger of customers that weren't well served, and the financial consequences that went along with a low appraisal by management. All of this was absurdity, but at the time, I made a near-instant association between the phone ringing and ultimate failure as a father because of the thought cycle I just described.
In essence, I think fear is the most powerful emotion in my life. Anger, of which there is warehouses full, has often been a byproduct of pervasive fear and my own irritation with my own inability to deal with fear, and the need to mask it for purposes of functioning in the social world. Reservoir of rage? Who knows, but you might try to break down exactly why things get to you to the point of getting worked up.
I hope this made some sense to you. |
Edited by - csmoon on 09/17/2007 12:39:03 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 12:31:45
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I try to do something physical, move around or dance or something, and just feel the energy bumping around and try to discharge it if I can, but if not, just let it bump around and radiate until it gets tired and stops (amazingly this does happen!). If I can I just escape the situation for a while and walk around. At home I sometimes pound pillows or scream silently (act as if screaming but without any air to vibrate the vocal cords), if I'm really feeling angry.
I also try to find out what's under the anger. I know Sarno sort of acts like the rage is the primary emotion, but anger in my experience is always a secondary emotion -- coming from something else. Doesn't mean it's not important to experience it, but it can be helpful to get under it too.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 09/17/2007 12:35:10 |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:45:39
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Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Fear is a strange thing. I suffer from worst-case-scenario fear, or, as I call it, dead-in-a-ditch syndrome (any anxious moms here? That's where I got the name).
In 5 minutes of thinking I can come up with more bad things that could happen than my husband could think of in a year. |
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FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:19:24
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So, my question is how do you deal with all the anger? How do you diffuse it? Especially since a bunch of it is buried out of sight but pushing really hard.
What strategies do people use to constructively approach and deal with the anger?
Yes, the journaling helps, but what about when the anger response just pops out during your day?
This was one of my questions when the pain was acting up. I went through many posts here looking for an answer that might help ME. Because don't you think what might be good for you might not be good for me?
What did work for me was making a list of things that made me feel angry. And then figuring out WHY they made me angry. In my case it seems anger is only the end result of other feelings. Loneliness, wanting acceptance, and other equally hard to accept feelings were usually at the core of my anger. Things that were/are hard to face. Somehow acknowledging these feelings helped diffuse the anger.
Ha! You mean when you let one car in during a traffic jam, only to have them let in 20 more cars?? I still need help with these daily annoyances!
fka something else |
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FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:31:43
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[quote]Originally posted by mamaboulet
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Fear is a strange thing. I suffer from worst-case-scenario fear, or, as I call it, dead-in-a-ditch syndrome (any anxious moms here? That's where I got the name).
In 5 minutes of thinking I can come up with more bad things that could happen than my husband could think of in a year.
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I used to be awful with this too! It is possible to psych yourself out of it. After enough psych outs, it almost becomes normal to NOT worry. (Hey, something I have actually overcome)!! You just can't allow bad thoughts. When they start to invade your brain, you turn them off - think of flowers, or the ocean, the mountains...something pleasant and non worrisome. Another thing that helped is knowing that worrying never, ever changed the outcome! What is going to happen will happen whether you worry or not.
fka something else |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 02:37:04
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Mamaboulet,
My therapist makes me punch things daily for my anger. I don't know if that is something you would enjoy, but I sure do. And it does help. But because I was a former fighter, maybe it's geared to my own personality.I could punch a pillow for an hour straight. Sometimes when I do, the feelings come to the surface and I start balling like a kid who dropped his ice cream cone.
Also seeing the object of your anger in your mind and cussing at it is a good one.
Just letting loose(but don't get the cops called on you) sometimes helps.
I think everyone should have a padded room with bats and sticks and old television sets or something to smash. I'm serious BTW. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 06:09:05
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I think I'm going to try the punching thing. Visualization comes natural to me (I like to think in scenes and pictures), but I think I need to get more physically involved.
Making lists and probing the list items definitely gets me really worked up. And I really like Dr Brady's lists of questions for getting started.
And talking to you guys helps. I don't really have any close friends where we live now, and I have no therapist, and I tend to keep the major turmoil hidden from my husband (he's lovely, but having had very little trauma in his life, he just tends to run through the same list of advice whenever he sees me struggling. He doesn't want to be, and shouldn't have to be, my therapist). But, that said, I seem to be in one of my annoying approval-seeking modes again, wanting somebody (anybody!) to notice that I am doing more, am more cheerful, walking regularly, etc., all stuff I wasn't doing before. This constant need for approval and affirmation (look honey, I mowed the back yard!)drives me bonkers.
Like it's not bad enough to be a perfectionist who drives herself and everybody else crazy with pickiness and criticism, but I've got to put up with this goodist crap too.
Just looking at my stupid education (15 years, 3 degrees), it was totally fueled by my "I'll show them, I'm not stupid, I am smart..." while thinking for the entire 15 years that somebody was going to figure out that I was an imposter. Now I avoid a bunch of friends in my area because they are all working in my field and I am not, because I am fed up after 15 years and just want to go raise goats. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 06:59:10
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It's cool Mamaboulet,
I realized through my therapy that I was a total insecure imposter on so many levels it's pretty sad. I always played the part with various groups. Approval seeking through so many levels , but at the same time acting like I didn't give a crap(acting).
I used to be the perfectionist type, now I just have the left over "I'm smarter than everything because I can beat the world" stuff.Dunno if that is perfectionism in some form.
But I do have the world saving "goodist" thing. No matter how pissed or annoyed I get with people, I always feel guilty about thinking I hurt someone.
I see so many people here apologize for their posts and their talking. It shouldn't be that way.
I think you can benefit by therapy too. I know that Dr. Schechter has a list of TMS therapists that give phone sessions. I so wanna tell you about mine, he's really good. But the whole confidentiality thing is there. Maybe you can message me in private.
And yes, raising goats would be ultra cool. I want to raise giraffes and elephants myself but my back hurts. DOH!!!You have no idea how funny that is to me. Actually I want to live in the jungle and survive off of tree moss and mushrooms, and make bows and arrows. Maybe when I'm done with therapy. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 07:10:11
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I'm afraid that my pissy HMO won't pay for therapy, even assuming my regular doctor would refer me (she gave me effexor without telling me the side effects and without responding to my request for a therapist). There's no way we can afford out of pocket therapist expenses. Has anybody else had luck getting their HMO to pay for therapy? I'll have to call and ask mine I guess.
And thanks, la_kevin. I used to think my perfectionist qualities are what give me the most problems, but I never had a name for the approval seeking behavior or even realized that it was part of a package. Now I'm beginning to realize that I put at least as much pressure on myself from the goodist perspective as I do from the perfectionist standpoint. argh. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 07:46:00
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I think inside of everyone, they have a nagging feeling of what is "wrong". It's not always necessary to have a therapist for that. I beleive that if everyone on this board was totally honest with themselves about their fears and guilt and such, they would just admit it to themselves.
I think the Internet and forums can also take away the work of truly looking inside yourself. It's a good way to reach out, but the honest work comes from within, IMO.
Maybe I would suggest(and to myself) to scale back on internet usage and go cry your ass off it need be. Or go punch a pillow or scream in it. My feeling is it will do a lot better than typing. But that's only my impression.
LOL, maybe all it takes for someone to stop their TMS would be to take a baseball bat and smash the computer. Stranger things could happen. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 09:22:28
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I have that approval-seeking thing too. It makes me crazy because I can see myself doing it but I can't seem to stop. I've been trying to give myself the feedback I need, which does help, but it doesn't quite have the effect I wish for.
I didn't think I'd have any luck with my PPO and therapy, because they only pay if it's for 'severe mental health conditions'. Nevermind that I'm trying to avoid having a severe physical and mental health condition here! I'm lucky because there was some leftover money from what my parents paid for school with. Otherwise I'd be stuck with no therapy.
Maybe you can find a group instead? Bradshaw, in his books about shame and the inner child, recommends group therapy as effective. Since his stuff is partly directed at alcoholics, he talks about AA, but there's also ACoA, and he says that people from families with an ill or depressed parent, or abusive or neglectful or emotionally rigid families, will find much that's similar to alcoholic families. You can look for local groups on the internet.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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kiwi
New Zealand
6 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 19:22:47
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At one level: focus on the emotion (not the thoughts driving it) and label it. Think Anger, Anger, Anger slowly while being mindful of he anger. If you get dragged back into the thoughts generating it just pull yourself back into being mindful of the feeling and emotion of anger and labelling it.
At a related level: ANNA Anticipate, Notice, Name, Address. Work out in your diary what things/situations will "make" you angry and anticipate it. When you Notice it then Name it ... Anger (or Frustration or Rage) and focus on the feeling and on naming it because this activated your forebrain and that calms you. The Address bit is having a plan for what you will do when/after you feel anger ... maybe you'll do 10 pushups, maybe you'll punch a bag, maybe you'll do the next thing.
At the level of an antidote: You can't feel love and anger at the same time. Feel love and compassion for some aspect of the thing you feel angry at - or even something else if you just can't be loving towards that other driver (say) who is really just acting out some drama and pain in their life through ignorance.
Read Happiness by Ricard |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 19:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Maybe you can find a group instead? Bradshaw, in his books about shame and the inner child, recommends group therapy as effective. Since his stuff is partly directed at alcoholics, he talks about AA, but there's also ACoA, and he says that people from families with an ill or depressed parent, or abusive or neglectful or emotionally rigid families, will find much that's similar to alcoholic families. You can look for local groups on the internet.
I really appreciated the Bradshaw book.
Another good book if you don't ID yourself as an Adult Child of Alcoholics (ACoA) is Grandchildren of Alcoholics by Ann Smith. Found it recently at a used bookstore and it's got a lot of good info.
Also, another kind of group to check out would be Nonviolent Communcication practice groups. If you want to check out the book by that title by Marshall Rosenberg. Practice groups definitely dig into emotional territory but are cost effect.
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clt28209
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 20:38:22
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Mamaboulet, I experienced the same thing and recently discussed this with my counsellor. After journalling for a few weeks, I noticed that similar issues surrounding childhood came up and the same feelings (and TMS neck pain) arose. I got the feeling of being stuck, later realizing that what I needed was to get unstuck without having to avoid (deny) rage or get caught up in the emotion. A psychoanalyst lent me an article on surrender, which echoed another spiritual mentor David Hawkins. They both suggested letting go of the attachment or need for the emotion/resentment/rage/fury/etc.
And the amazing thing is that either verbally or silently saying, "I totally surrender the need for this resentment/rage" was followed an almost immediate decrease in the pain. In subsequent statements I added "surrender to God" in my statements; this seemed to work even better. The dilemma seems to be between avoiding the fear of the unconscious rage and the need to act out consciously the repressed emotions. I do have the sense that if I act out (rant, scream, yell, pound my fist, etc.), I'm protecting my self from something. So is this angry display a defense against the monstrous fear of inadequacy, the inferiority that Dr. Sarno mentions? I would love to hear others comments on this. And thanks for all your sharing.quote:
Originally posted by mamaboulet
One of the things that tipped me off that something was haywire was that venting only produced more and stronger anger. Even walking, which usually helps diffuse anger and anxiety, instead seemed to feed the anger and anxiety because I would think about stuff that was making me crazy and I would get more and more worked up instead of less.
So, my question is how do you deal with all the anger? How do you diffuse it? Especially since a bunch of it is buried out of sight but pushing really hard.
What strategies do people use to constructively approach and deal with the anger?
Yes, the journaling helps, but what about when the anger response just pops out during your day?
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 10:42:50
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Looking back at my previous post, I should note that although I wouldn't really say I'm an ACoA (and I don't think I'm a grandchild of alcoholics, though I'm not sure), there is a history of alcohol problems on both sides of my family. And in college, I certainly had what I recognize now was not a very healthy relationship with alcohol. so I can certainly imagine that the issues I have are related or similar, even though my identification is of my family being emotionally rigid. It is probably a slightly different set of issues on the surface, but most likely similar at a deeper level, as Bradshaw says.
The idea of surrender is interesting. It's compatible with the concept used in 12-step programs (relevant here since we're talking about ACoA) about 'turning things over to your Higher Power'. I have trouble with the Higher Power concept, but I still find surrender interesting because it implies that we do have a need to have the emotion. Sometimes we just need to have emotions because we need to experience them to move on through the situation, but I think there are also 'covering emotions' like anxiety, irritation/anger at things that really aren't very significant (e.g. road rage), etc. that have some other need to exist. I like the idea of trying to surrender those, and see what releases, and thus what the need is that's generating them.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
I think the Internet and forums can also take away the work of truly looking inside yourself. It's a good way to reach out, but the honest work comes from within, IMO.
Maybe I would suggest(and to myself) to scale back on internet usage and go cry your ass off it need be. Or go punch a pillow or scream in it. My feeling is it will do a lot better than typing. But that's only my impression.
LOL, maybe all it takes for someone to stop their TMS would be to take a baseball bat and smash the computer. Stranger things could happen.
Good point, LA Kevin,
A baseball bat is, after Sarno's books, the best anti-TMS tool I ever bought. It's a mini bball bat, the kind they give out at major league stadiums on "fans night." I got it for $1 at a thrift store after reading Stan Lee's Face the Fire. Beating up on my old couch and really FEELING the anger I had bottled up inside was what enabled me to go from 75% pain free to 100%. Therapy didn't do that. You're right. "You" have to do the work.
I stopped logging onto this forum for awhile and focused on the work; and it really helped. Then when I was pain free, I just lived my life and figured I was through needing the forum.
I'm not sure what I'm doing back here, except that I had a pretty mean flare up this past August. I figure I can remind myself of the principles at work in that flare up, avoid having another one as the stress ratchets up this semester, and maybe help some people who are struggling to heal.
But I also have to admit that typing these responses is a lot less "scary" or "weird feeling" than beating up my furniture with the bat or having a good cry. I did give in the other night and had a good cry, which helped more than typing ever could...
I should take my own advice and not let this forum be another way for me to disassociate from my feelings. Thanks for the reminder, LAK. |
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clt28209
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 20:08:28
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As to the secondary "covering" emotions, I know with certainty that anxiety can be and frequently is a "front" for primal rage. My experience with this was related to a major argument I had with a former boyfriend. I left feeling very frustrated for not being understood and for not being able to resolve the situation. It seemed a little hopeless. Driving home I felt a mild sense of panic rise in the chest and grew. I was feeling a little more depressed at the same time, falling into a relationship despair. However, I didn't want to project all my emotions onto my relationship at the time and "dump." My therapist had indicated that much of this started with my childhood, and I was oh so ready to agree. I recalled the 1970's image of my young mother in mind, pointed my finger in the air, and said, "You're to blame for this." After this, I felt somewhat transfixed as my body spasmed and a torrent of screamed, shouted, and shrieked obscenities and vituperation of intense hatred spewed from my mouth. That is the only time I have experienced what I would consider primal rage, as if the containing elements of personality faltered momentarily.
So I don't doubt it for a minute, whether conscious anxiety represents unconscious fear of triggered unconscious rage, or whether anxiety serves as a distraction for the repressed emotions is an academic point. All symptoms occupy conscious mind, if they are pressing; so all symptoms can be TMS equivalents, I think. I knew a lady who was in the hospital for chest pain or an abscess or something serious. Most of her TMS pain lifted while she was there until the last couple of days, WHEN she was FEELING BETTER. Her acute medical symptoms were not occupying conscious mind, serving as a distraction for unconscious emotional buildup. quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Looking back at my previous post, I should note that although I wouldn't really say I'm an ACoA (and I don't think I'm a grandchild of alcoholics, though I'm not sure), there is a history of alcohol problems on both sides of my family. And in college, I certainly had what I recognize now was not a very healthy relationship with alcohol. so I can certainly imagine that the issues I have are related or similar, even though my identification is of my family being emotionally rigid. It is probably a slightly different set of issues on the surface, but most likely similar at a deeper level, as Bradshaw says.
The idea of surrender is interesting. It's compatible with the concept used in 12-step programs (relevant here since we're talking about ACoA) about 'turning things over to your Higher Power'. I have trouble with the Higher Power concept, but I still find surrender interesting because it implies that we do have a need to have the emotion. Sometimes we just need to have emotions because we need to experience them to move on through the situation, but I think there are also 'covering emotions' like anxiety, irritation/anger at things that really aren't very significant (e.g. road rage), etc. that have some other need to exist. I like the idea of trying to surrender those, and see what releases, and thus what the need is that's generating them.
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Wherever you go, there you are.
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 20:54:59
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Like I said before. Get a baseball bat or a hard stick and beat the crap out of something. Or get a pillow, lock yourself in a closet, think about your life and your pain and just punch the crap out of it..without hurting yourself of course.
Typing about it on a forum will NOT do anything. Your brain thinks that if you talk about it you will feel better. It doesn't always work like that, in fact it rarely does. TMS is something YOU have to face head on. And it's not about the "pain", it's about YOU and your feelings, what you are ready to accept about yourself, what in the past has made you "you", what it is that you REALLY are angry about, your fears, your disappointment, everything. Chatting here does not even begin to address those things. And could actually cause it to repress more if this becomes just another daily habit or compulsion.
Don't let the Internet be another distraction. You gotta face yourself sooner or later, and NOBODY here can do it for you or help you. We can only advise strategies based on experience. And don't let the pressure of "beating TMS" cloud you. I have found that it can't be conquered when you will it to be. It takes daily steps to even begin to crack the code. Sometimes even little things like being aware of how you talk to yourself in your head. Something that "simple" is a HUGE milestone which could take weeks to even begin to turn around.
Even the premise of being "kind" to yourself is HUGE. It might take months to get in the habit of not being harsh on yourself with guilt or perceived failures. So give yourself a break and go beat something up without getting the cops called on you. LOL
And don't be afraid if you breakdown and start crying like a mental patient. It only means you opened something that your brain doesn't want to accept, unfortunately that is the only way to get it out.TMS needs to be dealt with one way or another. It MUST go because it is effecting your life and you should have no tolerance for it anymore. It can't be in control or else it will ruin you literally.
On a personal note Mamaboulet. I had a Father much like yours, and he was also mentally ill with socipathic tendencies. There is NO WAY that a harsh father like that doesn't effect you. I don't care if you are in your 70's. Parents can poison children. Especially if the child is sensitive and caring. The effect of a parent like that can do so much **** to your psyche it's stunning. About three weeks ago I broke down in a 4 hour crying fit after a session with my therapist. My voice became like a kid and I went into a different zone. I was 10 years old again and it was the saddest thing I have felt. Your unconscious doesn't know what year it is. All the bad words, all the anger, all the fear and doubt of childhood happened yesterday. It's not going anywhere until you learn to accept it. You have to go back and tell that part of you to come out, I know it sound strange, but it's all too real. You know and I know that the little kid in all of us doesn't forget, even if we consciously think it did. You will be surprised what you remember if you dig deep enough, I know I was.
(As I typed that a got a dizzy feeling and nausea)
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Edited by - la_kevin on 10/02/2007 20:57:54 |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 07:10:50
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Thanks la_kevin. The thing about being kind to yourself reminds me of a great instructor I had at college. It was one of those required classes that everybody groans about (interpersonal communication), but the teacher was the most positive person I've ever met. If you saw her for about 5 minutes you might have a cheesy alert, but if you spent more time with her you realized that she was completely genuine and utterly positive. She used to tell us that we had to consider ourselves creditors. In other words, we pay bills every month (especially us TMS folks)because it is expected of us. Well, she wanted us to put ourselves on the creditor list too. You make a payment to yourself every month, of positive thinking, personal time, etc.
She also introduced me to my mantra for overcoming the inferiority thing. I even wrote it on my binder (I still have that binder with the words on it).
I'm lovable and capable (ILAC). |
Edited by - mamaboulet on 10/03/2007 07:11:21 |
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what do you DO with anger?
