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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
 Posted - 08/23/2007 : 12:32:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
AnthonEE,
Your message is very long and analytical and in a general sense it seems reasonable.
But TMS is not a rational process and does not respond to analysis and intellectualization. In fact, these are enemies of TMS treatment.
TMS theory is based on the assumption that primitive, unconscious emotions are the root of our symptoms. It is a defense of the mind to prevent us from feeling these "forbidden" feelings.
You will never find scientific proof of the TMS theory. One can make endless arguments that Dr. Sarno is wrong, with seemingly valid reasoning. It is much easier to prove that back pain is caused by a bulging disc because we can see that bulge on an MRI. The same kind of evidence is not available for TMS. The evidence we have is an abundance of clinical cases including thousands of patients treated successfully by Dr. Sarno.
Successful treatment of TMS requires us to take a leap of faith. It requires us to believe that clinical evidence alone is valid "proof". It requires us to accept that modern medicine is arrogant to claim that emotions cannot be responsible for real physical symptoms. It requires us to believe that humans simply do not understand so much about how the brain works.
Analysis and intellectualization is not going to get you relief. If you are part of the majority that needs scientific proof, or cannot dismiss your skeptecism, at least enough to give the TMS treatment methods a chance and do the work honestly and diligently, then you just may be out of luck.
On the other hand, if you see yourself described in the pages of Dr. Sarno's book and believe that his theory may be correct, and feel that you have nothing to lose by believing in it and really trying to do the work, then you can get better even if you have some lingering doubt. You just need to dismiss that doubt enough to allow the treatment to work.
Thanks Dave for this excellent and balanced summarization which I think clarifies to me why my pain went away so rapidly! I generally will not accept anything on "faith", wanting black and white proof, but in the case of TMS, I told myself to "go for it!" and apparently that allowed enough faith to creep in to show me tangible results and the pain dissipated rapidly. That's all the "proof" I need ;)
Woodchuck |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 13:19:57
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AnthonEE,
I quite agree with your "long and analytical" post.
I think it's been mentioned before on this forum that "blind faith" doesn't really work as an approach - rather a belief which involves understanding of the concepts.
I've completely recovered from my chronic pain, even though there were/are certain aspects of Sarno's explanation I find difficult to relate to.
My understanding of stanfr's post was that it was just questioning/discussing the "finer points" of Sarno's theory - not his theory as a whole.
Hilary N |
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 13:25:20
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AnthonEE:
It's not blind faith that is required. But you do need to be open minded enough to explore whether or not you fit the TMS mold. It seems that you are open to TMS as the cause of your pain. That's a great starting point.
And if you see yourself in the pages of the book enough - then you will need to believe in the proven process enough to begin the work. Once again, not blind faith - but viewing a model of success and seeing how you fit into that model.
I would imagine many of us have SOME doubts sometimes - especially when the pain is bad or when a doctor says something about a physical cause. It's committing to do the TMS and emotional work that seems to allow me to break through despite some lingering doubts.
An analogy: You may not believe with 100% certainty that you can run a 10K race in record time. But you need enough belief that you continue to train and work towards your goal. In the 10K race example - you surely wouldn't win if you trained half heartedly skeptical of why you are doing it - all the while feeling that you won't win anyway. In this case, your goal is living pain free. And it requires a similar level of commitment and belief in yourself and the process.
Sarno has given you the "training regime" so to speak. And many of us in the forum have finished the race in record time by following Sarno's program.
Obviously you sound like you see yourself in the description of TMS. And barring pure laboratory proof, let the testimony of those on this forum, thousands of Sarno's patients - as well as hundreds who wrote positive book reviews on Amazon play into your decision or belief system. (search for Sarno's book Healing Back Pain in Amazon and look for the reviews.)
A healthy skepticism is normally a healthy thing. In the case of TMS - once you have enough evidence to believe you fit the mold, cast aside the skepticism as you do the work. As you retrain your mind.
I guess to summarize. Question the theory all you want up front prior to making your decision if this is right for you. But once you decide to embark on TMS treatment, further questioning will only slow your progress down.
Leave the blind faith home - make an educated decision and then go forward with confidence that you fit the TMS description to a "T". (as you said yourself) You can and WILL find relief. We did, so can you.
Dan |
Edited by - Webdan65 on 08/23/2007 13:28:26 |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 15:05:25
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Thank you Dan. You mention that Sarno gives the training regime. I think I saw somewhere on Amazon a companion workbook to go along with Sarno. The claim was that Sarno gives the discussion about TMS, but offers little in the way of a treatment regime. Do you think this is the case? I have the MindBody Prescription, and am hoping it gives me enough idea about what I can "do". Or at least enough to get started. Would you recommend another one of his books in addition to "MBP"? Thanks!
HilaryN, yes, for the most part I took stanfr's post just as you describe. I'm starting to understand the idea of "belief which involves the understanding of [mostly consistent] concepts". This is the important point for me. It allows the TMS idea to be accepted without appeal to blind faith, or protection from constructive criticism or questioning. And that's what seems most important. If the people like me are to ever believe, and thus find help, then the concepts really need to hold water and remain transparent for discussion. Or as Dan says, at least prior to a commitment to work this program. Otherwise there would be no way to judge if TMS treatment is different from some strange cargo cult culture that Richard Feynman writes about. At least not without the benefit of direct experience like Woodchuck just posted. None of us have time to try random things on blind faith to cure our ills. I think that was mostly the point I was trying to make in my previous long winded rambling (sorry!)
So yes, unless the book just doesn't fit for some reason, I'm in with both feet, and very optimistic based on your comments and support.
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Edited by - AnthonEE on 08/23/2007 15:10:23 |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 15:48:55
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AnthonEE,
Sarno's books do offer a treatment chapter. Some people often say that it's not in depth enough or doesn't give enough instruction. I think in part because the treatment isn't very complex, so Sarno doesn't spend 100 pages on the book. He does devote a full 32 pages to it.
Someone pointed out in a recent forum post:
"The Diagnosis is the Cure."
That is so close to a perfect description it's not funny. This will make a lot more sense to you 4-8 weeks from now. In the meanwhile I'll share with you this post of my recent episode.
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3766
I also offer a quick summary of the treatment program:
Stay focused on the fundamentals.
* Read and re-read Sarno's book/books.
* Do the TMS "work" every day. (see below)
* Take control of your thoughts
* Refute the physical
* Don't fear the pain
* Think psychological
* Journaling - on a daily basis. Explore anger, tensions, annoyances, frustrations, daily pressures, irritations, personality traits, etc. Write until you run out of thoughts or ink. Keep extra pens handy.
* Resume physical activities when there is a significant reduction in pain.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
Obviously the book will go into great depth about the research, the basis for Sarno's conclusions, case studies, TMS equivalents, etc.
The key here is spend a lot of time looking inside. Any time you feel the pain, stop thinking about or analyzing the pain. Just Keep asking yourself "What's going on underneath the covers?" "What's bugging me now?".
And most of all be patient. Give it time to sink in.
Dan |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 09:21:03
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quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
http://www.etex.net/kelving
Excellent link, thank you!
sweet! Thanks! |
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First posting... could I have TMS??
