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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
 Posted - 08/21/2007 : 13:41:26
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Karen: The pain won't make sense.
Despite what I KNEW was TMS and having cured myself 8 years prior of ongoing back pain through applying Sarno's methods....it didn't make sense that 5 weeks ago I was flat on my back for 14 hours - stuck on the hardwood floor unable to move let alone get up.
No - it doesn't make sense. My conscious mind KNEW it was TMS but it still took 14 hours of reflection to just get back to bed, DAYS of doing the work to get up and get some mobility...and WEEKS of TMS work with a firm resolve to beat this bugger to get to where I am now. 95% better. All in 5 weeks.
Nope - it just doesn't make sense how hard this thing called TMS can grab you and inflict pain. Worst pain I've ever felt. But forge ahead and you will beat it just like many of us here have done.
Dan
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 14:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
An important point that you are entirely missing is, the fact that you felt compelled to do that stretch in the first place means that your thoughts (and actions) are still firmly rooted in the physical realm.
Dave, I don't think I've EVER disagreed with you, but I wish people would quit getting on to Karen over stretching. If our bodies are truly the durable machines we all know they are on this forum, then why shouldn't she stretch if she wants to.
I stretch at Yoga. It feels great. I stretch before and after I run my weekly 5K, and that feels great.
Karen, you can stretch if you d@mn well want to. You just can't mistake twinges or stabs of pain during them as true injuries.
Live your life through the pain. I promise you it will be OK.
Start typing your entries yourself. I promise you it will be OK, too.
Beth |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 15:25:47
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Dan,
Thanks for sharing your experience with me..I'm very frustrated with myself that I seem to be having a very hard time incorporating the TMS principles enough to see results..All of the encouraging posts do help my morale a lot though..
Thanks Bethie,
The last time I tried even typing a tiny bit, just days ago, the pain became nausiating..Always appreciate your support..
Hugs to you both,
Karen
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 17:47:41
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Karen, I wouldn't presume to measure your pain, getting back to the suggestion you use your hands. All I can tell you is I've had severe pain myself, as have many others around here. The cure for me was pushing through that.
Hey Beth, as to stretching, sure, stretch if it feels good, but I personally think it's a waste, unless you do it after working out..Cold stretching actually has been shown to slightly increase the risk of injury fro runners...
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Edited by - art on 08/21/2007 17:57:22 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 18:20:15
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Hi Art,
I, too, have actually pushed through knee pain with powerwalking and actively talking to my brain and telling it to stop! It was empowering when it worked, occasionally it did not and then I ended up icing the knee and was fine the next day..I have also performed live on stage just this past January with a bit of a neck flare after falling down a small flight of stairs..That was pretty awesome too..So I have had some success beating TMS..This wrist thing is much more difficult..And being my livelihood as an artist and voice teacher totally depends on my hands, it is truly scary..Yet I know that fear is just holding me back..
Hugs,
Karen |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 19:07:43
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>>>When I can afford it, I am going to start up with my TMS therapist again..
YOU are the solution. This can come from you. A therapist helps, but the emotional work will always lies in yourself. I agree with ACL, please write or record so you can see progress. This isn't anything epic or meaningful. Tell the Perfectionist to shut up and just let you spend 15 minutes complaining about traffic. Point is -- do it everyday, even if it's hurting, even if...ever excuse in the book.
Your brain is good at coming up with a million reasons to prevent you from the work that is important to you. You are not the pain, you are the person recovering from TMS. Treat your brain as such.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 22:10:32
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Thanks Carbar,
You are right, where there is a will, there is a way..And I have been doing the TMS work in a luke warm fashion..I can always use a felt tip pen and write sloppily through the pain..
Take care,
Karen |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 07:07:54
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quote:
[i]Hey Beth, as to stretching, sure, stretch if it feels good, but I personally think it's a waste, unless you do it after working out..Cold stretching actually has been shown to slightly increase the risk of injury fro runners...
Oh, so you are saying our bodies have physical limitations. I see. So we have normal healthy bodies that can do anything except stretch our muscles. Hmmm. Very interesting. 
Who's talking physical now, Art? 
I think saying somebody shouldn't stretch is going right back to the physical. When I "cold stretch" I do it very slowly. Only because I think you can "pull" a muscle, but NOT permanently injure it.
Beth |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 08:10:00
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Beth,
You know, like it or not, we're not all just floating minds around here. We do have bodies. I'm only telling you about the study I read. It's on the Internet somewhere if you care to look. Better to find that, and quarrel with the design if you're not liking the conclusions.
Edit: Not a lot of time this morning, but a quick search and I came up with this...Seems there are several studies...
...."Thacker's paper makes clear why athletes and performers should be skeptical of stretching's alleged benefits. For example, several investigators found little evidence to support injury prevention by stretching immediately before or after events, and determined that the practice may negatively affect performance.2-5
Other studies have found that stretching decreases muscle strength for anywhere from 10 minutes to 24 hours,6,7-a drop that increases injury risk in itself-and that passive stretching adversely affects jumping ability and plantar flexion.8,9 Increased flexibility also appears to decrease running economy and peak performance.10-12 "
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Edited by - art on 08/22/2007 08:20:00 |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 09:22:56
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Art. You are being obtuse and missing the point !!!! 
You (And Dave) are saying two conflicting things:
1) We have TMS and therefore have NO physical problems or limitations (I agree here).
2) We SHOULDN'T be stretching, because it may injure our fragile bodies (I don't agree).
Do you see where these two statements conflict each other?
Quit telling Karen not to stretch, or anybody else for that matter. She can do with her body whatever she wants. 
I mean this post in fun, so don't take it too seriously. 
Beth |
Edited by - h2oskier25 on 08/22/2007 09:23:34 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 11:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by h2oskier25
2) We SHOULDN'T be stretching, because it may injure our fragile bodies (I don't agree).
No. We shouldn't be stretching because it serves no purpose other than to promote flexibility, which is important only if you are a gymnast.
Many people stretch because they feel it is necessary to keep their muscles working properly (which is false) or to prevent injury (which is also false).
In Karen's case she is stretching specifically in an attempt to treat chronic pain that is attributed to a prior injury. This is in direct contradiction to TMS treatment.
That said, stretching is not all bad. In some cases it can be natural. Dogs and cats do it all the time. If I'm typing for hours at my computer I will naturally stretch out my arms and shoulders. It feels good. Stretching as part of an overall health regimen, such as yoga, is not necessarily a bad thing. But stretching to relieve pain perceived to be due to a structural issue, or to prevent injury, plays right into TMS' hands and can perpetuate the syndrome. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 11:58:47
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quote:
Originally posted by carbar
>>>When I can afford it, I am going to start up with my TMS therapist again..
YOU are the solution. This can come from you. A therapist helps, but the emotional work will always lies in yourself. I agree with ACL, please write or record so you can see progress. This isn't anything epic or meaningful. Tell the Perfectionist to shut up and just let you spend 15 minutes complaining about traffic. Point is -- do it everyday, even if it's hurting, even if...ever excuse in the book.
Your brain is good at coming up with a million reasons to prevent you from the work that is important to you. You are not the pain, you are the person recovering from TMS. Treat your brain as such.
Carbar and others have good points here about pushing back on the symptoms; however, I think that in this case Karen should resume her work with her therapist asap. I think she was just about to make some breakthroughs when she had to end the therapy.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 12:04:50
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I love the dogs and cats analogy re stretching and use it all the time myself...
Sure they stretch for a second or two because it feels good when they've been lying around for awhile, but this is key as far as I'm concerned, when's the last time you saw an animal stretching out his hamstrings for 5 minutes, or standing up against a wall to work his calf muscles?
We share almost our entire physiology with the other mammals in the world and can learn a great deal from them...
I don't stretch prior to running or biking because I simply do not think it does us any good...When I read a few years ago that it could actually increase the possibility of injury, it only confirmed something I've always suspected...
As a recovering TMS'er I've learned to ignore most aches and pains....At the same time, as a runner and biker I'm also aware that one needs to treat his or her body with some wisdom, especially as the years go by..Actual injuries do happen occasionally
I should mention that I sometimes stretch out briefly after a workout because it feels good to do so...But if wouldn't bother me at all if I were suddenly sentenced by some capricious judge to a lifetime without anymore stretches...It wouldn't worry me in the least that I was somehow going to be more likely to injure myself...
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Edited by - art on 08/22/2007 12:09:15 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 14:38:03
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What Art said about the hats? Yup. Still goes.
Honestly, I was and am a BIG proponent of pushing through pain, as that is what finally worked for me. But Karen, for you I recommend DO THE WORK mainly, since your pain increase from activity just seems to be too much to effectively function through. Change your thinking about pain (eliminate the fear) and do the journaling and start up with Dubin again as soon as you can.
CHANGE YOUR THINKING. I'm not getting involved in the Great Stretching Debate, but I want to reaffirm that I still see in your posts the same basic attitude to your body and the pain that you've had all along: "My body is fragile and might really be hurt." In your responses, you concede that people make good points, but often follow it with excuses about why their points don't really apply, and rarely say that you have acted on their suggestions or really BELIEVE their points.
It's not so important, in my opinion, that you act against the pain, as that your attitude change to that of a person who intends to, plans to, and believes she can recover from TMS. That you become CONVINCED and COMMITTED.
Honestly, you've tried everything else. What else is left at this point but to just behave as if you have TMS? Forget the doubts for now, accept it as a hypothesis you intend to test, and test it by doing.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 21:08:19
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quote:
Honestly, you've tried everything else. What else is left at this point but to just behave as if you have TMS?
My point exactly...The logic of "what is there to lose?" seems unassailable...
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 21:31:56
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My plan is to have more sessions with Don Dubin..In the meantime I have an appointment with a psychotherapist who specializes in PTSD from car crashes..I believe he uses biofeedback as well..And he is local..
I actually do take the advice I get here very seriously..And I am very grateful.. |
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mikescott_98
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 06:18:45
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quote:
in the meantime I have an appointment with a psychotherapist who specializes in PTSD from car crashes.
If you are talking about the recent car crash, I doubt this will help. You have had an extreme case of TMS BEFORE the car crash. You are looking at little things in the present to explain your pain. As I think I have said before, your problems are probably from your childhood or teenage years and you refuse to deal with THEM. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 06:46:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
My plan is to have more sessions with Don Dubin..In the meantime I have an appointment with a psychotherapist who specializes in PTSD from car crashes..I believe he uses biofeedback as well..And he is local..
I actually do take the advice I get here very seriously..And I am very grateful..
PTSD? I don't want to trivialize the car accident, but do you really believe it was such a stressful event?
This is no different than seeking structural explanations for pain that is really due to TMS. |
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swmr1
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 07:14:11
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| Here we go again. Feel like we're on a Merry-Go-Round... |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 09:32:53
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Get over it w/ ur sarcastic comment, swmr1.
Dave,
It's not just this accident, but an accmulation of 3..In 1, I was bleeding and my car was totaled..rushed 2 hospital, etc..None my fault..Now i'm a wreck in the car. |
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Tendonitis question
