| Author |
 Topic  |
|
austingary
USA
95 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2004 : 18:35:57
|
But this is not my battle against spine abnormalities, but it is a chance for me to look deeper into myself and my emotions.
I don't think anyone here has been discussing "spine abnormalities". I think you are confusing "structural" with "physical". Most of us who post here are in full agreement with Sarno and others that the structural abnormalities that chiropractors thrive on do not necessarily cause any pain at all. There is lots of evidence for that. But there are many physical things that you can do to cause yourself pain and other problems.
If you want to look deeper into yourself, nobody is stopping you. Go for it.
Sarno has done more for me than any other doctor and guess what he did not make a cent off of me.
Whether you bought the book or just borrowed it is not the point. The point is, "Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut." Sarno's life and work are all built around his ideas about TMS and now that's all he sees, everywhere he looks. He writes as though it makes no difference whatsoever how you use or misuse your body, as long as you think right. While that's an attractive message for those who don't want to make any physical effort, there are not many people who agree with it and not much evidence for it.
The 400-pound man with bad knees is not going to get much better by looking deeper into himself. Neither is the person who spends all day hunched over a computer screen and never exercises.
TMS is certainly part of the picture. But you kid yourself if you think that looking deeper into yourself is all you have to do. |
 |
|
|
mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 21:03:26
|
But whatever Sarno said to or about us, it's would not be of great consequence, because this site is not an homage to John Sarno or his ideas. Here, all ideas, including Sarno's, have always been up for discussion and argument. Personally, I hope that will never change.
Absolutely. It IS all about ideas so please let's have lots of them. It's what makes this forum so successful and useful. There is a certain danger to limiting what people can or should say and leans towards being fanatical.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
|
|
|
April
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 07:28:25
|
>>My right shoulder is significantly lower than my left one...
I know that since I started the having pain nearly 4 years ago that I have held a lot of tension in various parts of my body that are now chronically stiff and painful. In fact I am completely unable to relax my lower back, upper back, shoulder, chest and thigh muscles.
Mala,
I agree with Dave's "So what?" to the lower shoulder.
I noticed years ago that my left shoulder was lower than my right because my clothes used to fall to that side. Back then I wasn’t in pain and guessed that maybe my ride side was out just stronger from playing tennis. I really didn’t know or care.
Many years and a few rounds of TMS later, my left shoulder is still lower than my right. I can’t even carry a purse on that side because it would slide off my shoulder. I have never associated this imbalance with pain. Maybe because I noticed it before what I now know to be a TMS attack and in hindsight I also can know I eventually came out of the pain, yet my left side is still lower.
My thought is that the chronic pain in your back muscles is likely from a constant state of tension. But I see the root of this tension as TMS rather than structural. Breaking that spasm either from a TMS emotional release or some help from medication can work is so welcome when it finally happens. I like Dr. Andrew Weil’s advice on TMS in that TMS is actually so common that it should be ruled out first before other avenues are pursued.
April
PS I will offer a non TMS solution for chronic headaches & backpain that worked for my sister. Someone along the way said her one leg was shorter than the other. She put a lift in her shoe and the pain has been gone for years now.
|
|
|
|
pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 05:04:01
|
| Good answer Dave! We all are out of alignment,as it is normal.Forget the way you look in the mirror.All normal! |
|
|
|
austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 09:33:32
|
Forget the way you look in the mirror.
The point is not how you look in the mirror, or even that bones "out of alignment" cause pain on their own. In most cases, when alignment issues are that obvious, the bones are where they are because the muscles are pulling them there.
If your muscles are pulling them there, then you are holding certain muscles very tensely, all the time, and probably completely unconsciously. Also, those muscles are probably getting no exercise, no movement, which makes them weaker, even as they are being forced to constantly do this useless work.
I would argue that such a condition, which is quite common, can and often does cause pain. Take a weak muscle, put it into a constantly-flexed position and hold it there, hour after hour, day after day, and you will get spasms in it. Spasms hurt and lead to knots which hurt chronically.
When Dr. Sarno shows us how rage and stress can cause or exacerbate pain, he does us a great service. But the idea that we are free to misuse our body in any way we like because almost all our pain is psychogenic -- that is harmful; there's just no way around it.
There is a difference between "structural" and "physical". While the commonly-blamed structural problems may seldom cause pain, there are many things that we do that do cause pain. It's not where your bones are, not even where your muscles are, it's what you are doing with them that is important, rage or no rage. |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 10:09:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by austingary
In most cases, when alignment issues are that obvious, the bones are where they are because the muscles are pulling them there.
What is your basis for this explanation?
I do not believe that holding our muscles tense can pull our bones out of alignment. I think that some people have naturally "misaligned" bones. Just because one shoulder appears lower than the other doesn't mean in is an abnormality, nor that it should cause pain. Even severe scoliosis in some people causes no pain whatsoever. |
|
|
|
austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 21:22:17
|
I do not believe that holding our muscles tense can pull our bones out of alignment.
I think this is common; we see and experience it all the time. I have had this problem myself in the past, where one hip was pulled up because of tension in the muscles on one side of my back. Tense one shoulder and see what happens: your shoulder on that side comes up. If you walked around that way, it would appear as though your shoulder was "out of alignment" but it would just be flexed muscles.
I think that some people have naturally "misaligned" bones.
...doesn't mean in is an abnormality, nor that it should cause pain.
I have not said that there is pain in all such cases or that the cause of pain is the misalingned bone or that muscle tension is the only reason why someone's bones might appear to be misaligned.
But here, we have someone complaining of pain who also says her bones appear misaligned and she has felt "a lot of tension" in her body. So, in this case, it seems likely to me that the apparent misalignment is caused by the muscle tension which also causes the pain. What causes the muscle tension in the first place? Well, that is another question. Maybe it's psychogenic, maybe not.
My point is not that bones out of alignment necessarily cause pain but that holding muscles tense over long periods of time causes pain. That can also pull your bones into an abnormal position. In fact, "pulling bones" is the only function muscles have!
Keeping a muscle flexed over time, without relief, causes pain -- I'd say that is a known fact. If you don't believe me, try it. On the other hand, if you try reducing the blood flow in your hand or leg, you will find that that does not cause pain -- at least until you let the blood flow back in, which can hurt.
Seems to me that muscle tension, rather than reduced blood flow, is a much more likely vehicle for pain caused by mental "tension", i.e. TMS. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
posture and body alignment
