| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Penny
USA
364 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2007 : 19:43:13
|
Anyone here been Dxed with Lyme's disease but found it actually to be TMS? A friend has been called to the dr first thing tomorrow AM to get bad news about lab tests that came back for Lyme's disease. She had tick bites 2 weeks ago and was put on doxcycline immediately. They ran tests and now need to see her ASAP to cover treatment options. I think I remember some talk a while ago about TMS and Lyme's but I couldn't find it in the archives.
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
|
|
Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 19:59:51
|
Penny, here is a link to a thread on which Dr. Ziggles mentioned that "chronic Lyme's disease" can be TMS. I'm not sure, but I got the impression he may have meant that if a person receives treatment to get rid of the disease, but then continues to have long-term symptoms, it could be that the unconscious mind has begun to mimic the symptoms of the disease for TMS reasons even though the bacteria has been fully eradicated. http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2306
Best wishes to your friend.
Corey |
 |
|
|
sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 20:29:00
|
I am actually in the process of researching for an article right now. Lyme is one of those highly controversial diagnoses which might be a very real combination of SOME actual cases and many misdiagnosed "jump on the bandwagon" cases... I hope to learn more through various sources including some mind/body doctors and my contact doctor at the CDC. - Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
|
|
|
Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 20:40:05
|
Thanks Sensei and Corey! Hopefully my friend will get better quickly. The dx of lyme's just seemed awful fast to me, esp since she only had the ticks a couple days before being ill and was treated immediatly. My friend is very alike me, and prone to TMS, but doesn't really subscribe to TMS belief so I am really worried this could level her (esp if she reads all the lyme's stuff on the internet!!!!!) Yikes.
Sensei, What type of articles do you write? Just curious, as I'm a wirter two! LOL!  I'd love to learn from your research, esp. b/c you will be interviewing mb docs. Great assignment! |
|
|
|
Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 19:50:49
|
My dear friend's doctor told her she has fibromyalgia and will be meeting with her regularly to help her with medication and pain management. Good news is he suggested a therapist to help her deal with some other things she has going on.
She has "ridiculously" high Epstein-Barr virus lab results too.
Any thoughts on this test?
>|< Penny
|
|
|
|
Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 20:31:34
|
Many people who are dx'd with Fibro or CFS are told they have high EBV results. I've read that 95% of the population over the age of 20 tests positive for EBV, because it's a common virus. Here's an old thread with comments from Dr. Ziggles regarding EBV. There are a few other threads that mention it, if you search on Epstein Barr.
Was her Lyme's test negative? Why did he tell her she's got Fibro? Was she having symptoms of Fibro prior to the tick bites? Just curious--if you don't know or don't feel like responding, no worries.
Corey
|
|
|
|
Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 21:08:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
Was her Lyme's test negative? Why did he tell her she's got Fibro? Was she having symptoms of Fibro prior to the tick bites? Just curious--if you don't know or don't feel like responding, no worries.
Thanks Corey. I don't think he ran another Lyme test, as she was only had ticks about 2 weeks ago. She has had other sx for years, like tingling, stabbing pains, partial paralysis, but after her tick bites her pain intensified, so he ran tests for arthritis and leukemia. When those came back negative, he brought her in to tell her she has FMS.
Her dx is really convoluted to me b/c of the tick bites. She reminds me of myself very much. I would buy into any diagnosis my doctors threw around, perhaps to somehow validate or substantiate my suffering with a label that I thought would incite sympathy in my friends and family. When I realized I wasn't getting sympathy for my FMS, migraines, and CTS I emotionally bottomed out and my pain was at its worse. Then I accidentally found Selfridge's book that led me to Sarno's MBP. I don't know where I would be or how much pain I'd be in had I not found TMS theory. It literally saved my life and saved me from ruining my life.
I hope I am able to help her at least be open to TMS concept. |
|
|
|
Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 00:42:37
|
Hi Penny,
I really relate to how you describe your experience with your symptoms. I also expected a label to validate what I was going through, but my family was unmoved by anything and I just got worse and worse. I hoped that counseling would help, but I never found a good counselor and it was just one more place to drag my tired, achey body to when I wanted to be home in bed.
I feel certain the reason I developed all the symptoms in the first place had a lot to do with the fact that I have been the only one accepting the bulk of the responsibility for most of my adult life. While the rest of my family wanders around with their heads in the clouds, I have to try to hold everything together and try to pick up the pieces when things do fall apart because no one else is willing to take on responsibility. And it's not because I don't ask them to help, they just resist it. It makes for a lonely life, even though I'm never really alone, because my SO doesn't work anymore.
Your friend is fortunate that you understand how she feels and that you know about TMS. I've been talking to a friend of mine about it for a few months now, and I lent her the Selfridge book last week, which she found really eye-opening and encouraging. It's great to be able to talk to her about it now and see that she really gets it. No one else has really listened--they all just think it's the treatment-plan-of-the-month and that it will be just as futile as everything else I've tried, even though I have got rid of several symptoms. This board has been very encouraging to me. And I've learned so much from the people here. It's good to have hope again. Hopefully your friend will be ready to learn about TMS too.
|
|
|
|
Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2007 : 09:55:36
|
Penny,
I am not a doctor but I know alot about the human body and alternative/holistic medicine in particular..Lyme disease is a very real problem if she was bitten by a lyme tick..There should have been a bulls eye rash around the initial bite, etc..there are tell tale signs and symptoms..It can carry on for years and turn into real arthritis, etc..I had a friend who went through this, it was awful..usually since they caught your friend's in time and treated it..she should hopefully be okay..THis disease is one of the few reasons I am happy to be here instead of back home in NY/NJ..We don't have lyme disease in the desert..I worry about my dogs getting it too, if I lived back East..
Hope your friend gets completely well soon,
Karen |
|
|
|
Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 22:51:36
|
Karen,
On page 107 of The Mindbody Prescription, Dr. Sarno says that he has seen many patients with TMS who had been diagnosed with Lyme disease by other doctors. These diagnoses were made with antibody tests, one of the standard ways of diagnosing Lyme disease. Dr. Sarno's view of Lyme disease fits well with Dr. Ziggle's view, mentioned above, that chronic Lyme disease is probably a form of TMS. Your friend's chronic symptoms may have been TMS.
Jim |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 07:06:23
|
Here is the direct quote from Dr. Sarno's MBP:
Lyme Disease
Although it differs considerably from those already discussed, another medical condition warrants mention. In this case we have a bona fide disease process to which a variety of physical symptoms are mistakenly attributed. Lyme disease is a bacterial infection acquired through the bite of a tiny tick that can manifest itself in neurological and arthritic symptoms. If someone has pain that cannot be explained by any of the usual diagnoses and has immunologic evidence (from a blood test) of having been infected, the symptoms will be attributed to Lyme disease. Whenever a foreign substance like a bacterium enters the body, the immune system activates protective measures. One of these is the creation of substances called antibodies that link up with the bacteria and neutralize them. Antibodies are specific for each bacterium; each of us has many different antibodies circulating in our blood. The amount of a specific antibody can be measured in the laboratory. The amount is known as an antibody titer. By this test one can determine whether or not an antibody for a specific disease is present in the blood, and how much. I have seen many people with TMS whose pain was attributed to Lyme disease because they had antibodies for the Lyme bacterium in their blood.
One of many cases I I encountered was a man I saw with severe TMS who did not accept that diagnosis and was later found to have antibodies for Lyme disease. He sued the neurologists who had attended him originally for malpractice, claiming that they had failed to test for Lyme antibodies. His symptoms were blatantly TMS, but in the absence of medical acceptance of TMS the neurologists found it difficult to defend themselves.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 07/02/2007 07:07:08 |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 09:01:54
|
When acute turns to chronic, that's when you have to raise your eyebrows.
There is no doubt that Lyme disease is real. If you get bitten by a tick and contract the disease you will get acute symptoms and may need treatment.
But is it possible to get bitten by a tick and not have any symptoms (or only mild ones) and then later develop chronic pain and other symptoms that can be attributed to the Lyme disease? This is a highly debated issue even in the traditional medical community.
Just because you have the antibodies does not mean you have some chronic form of the disease. Maybe some of us are resistent to Lyme and actually developed a mild form of the disease at some point, and thought it was the flu. Our immune system fought it off, and now we have those antibodies with us for life.
It's similar to the case with stomach ulcers. Doctors now beleive the h.plyori bacteria is responsible. Here we go again. How about those who have the bacteria and don't have ulcers? How about the possibility that the bacterial growth is a symptom and not a cause?
It's just another example of how medicine is very quick to jump to conclusions whenever they can see things under a microscope. |
|
|
|
Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 16:27:09
|
In many cases acute Lyme disease will present a rash at the bite site 2 to 4 weeks after the bite. Sometimes there is no rash visible. Sometimes you get a foreign body rash right away, it clears up, then you get another rash a couple weeks later.
I had a confirmed case of Lyme disease last year and fortunately it was DXed early and the doc RXed me with antibiotics for 12 weeks. It appears to have worked. I was really sick and deathly tired for some days prior to the DX. No pain just real sick in my case. Sometimes you don't get sick enough to warrant a trip to the doc, but you have still been infected.
The quality of the lab results need scrutiny since some labs apparantly are not as good as others for Lyme tests. If you doubt your docs ability to DX Lyme then get another doc since Lyme can be very serious. Its nothing to fool with. If you are treated early you can expect a full recovery in most cases. If it goes un-DXed for a long time then treatment is not so successful.
So as the Good Doctor says, get it checked out to rule out serious disease, and if you come up clean then treat your pain as TMS.
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 07/05/2007 16:35:59 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Lyme's disease and TMS
