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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2007 : 17:19:55
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To reply with a quote, mouse over the little buttons above the person's post to which you'd like to include ... you'll get words. Select the one that says "Reply with Quote" then you can delete all the irrelevant words and add your msg after the tag called "quote".
quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
Yeah, I've been told by lots of people that I am "stoic". I used to take it as a compliment. I don't anymore. I now see it as a red flag for the TMS that it is.
GOOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!! Yes, yes YES!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
I truthfully have no trouble admitting I am GREEN w/ envy of able bodied people. I don't know if I don't feel worthy, I used to. I guess not so much anymore.
Perhaps you are really ticked with people who are able to express themselves too ... you know, those types who can say how they feel and get what they want, regardless of how other people feel about them.
quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
I do not take any offense to what you wrote. On the contrary, I am so appreciative that you care. And that you understand.
I am SOOOOOO relieved about this. Sometimes my "tough love" energy can be a bit overwhelming. I do only want to help, especially b/c I very much relate to where you are. I had to get very tough on myself this past year, and it was only by asking hard questions and challenging myself emotionally that I have stopped most of my pword.
The only thing I'll add (as Hilary already said what I would have) is that I wonder if you resent the fact that your daughter IS so sweet and cordial. Maybe deep down you wish she was a tigress ROARING loadly her wants and opinions, as you have never done. Do you remember what you were talking about when you got in the car? Were you talking about what you were thinking, or were you denying talk of pain. I wonder if you there are other things (besides pain talk) that you have always wanted to tell her, but never did. Perhaps you could write her a letter (you don't have to give it to her) and empty out all your hidden feelings? Just an idea for you.
My dear mother suffers TMS awfully, and it often intensifies around me and my girls. She often says undermining things about herself as she watches me with my daughters, things like "You are a much better mother than I ever was." It's so awful to hear, especially b/c I think she was wonderful, even though therapy has helped me understand she was less than perfect.
Here is a ole link to some thoughts I shared last year about IC work and worthiness. It was all about WWMICD (what would my inner child do?) http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2494
I think you are doing all the right things LB. Another idea I have for you is to stop your usual day-to-day acitivities around the house. Stop laundry, cleaning, cooking ... indulge in take out. Stir things up a little and change your routine. I suggest this not to stop activity, as I don't believe that movement causes TMS pain, but b/c I wonder if you changed your daily routine and divulged your IC a little more, maybe you can break the pain pattern. Your hubby may not appreciate this (mine didn't  ) but it might be good for your subconscious ... sort of liberating. (Oh, are you married?? Sorry if you've already said this, can't remember.)
HUGS to you LadyBug. Keep going!!!!!!!
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
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LadyBug
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 07:59:58
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Hi Penny
It is a fair statement that "I'm ticked with people who can express themselves." In many instances I take no crap, in relationships with those close to me it is another (sad) story. But I have been working on that! I have been eliminating those that are toxic and I find that to be much healthier and free - ing.
My daughter is one of my dearest friends. We spend hours talking and she is the one of only 2 people I've shared TMS with. Sometimes it's obvious that she knows me better than I do.
Thanks for the link to your posts from '06. Had to smile, you were asking some of the same questions that I've asked these last few weeks. It gave me hope that we all start crawling here and some of the lucky ones end up pain free.
Do you live in SC and did you ever find a TMS doctor nearby?
I am usually ALWAYS avoiding (denying) talk of pain. (and yes, I think I have always done that. It's not just since this started) So I'm sure that was not the topic of conversation when I got in her vehicle. It is beginning (I hope) to seep in what you are saying. I expect my back to hurt and so it does, right? This didn't occur to me for a variety of reasons. One of them was that I had never sat in this Jeep before. It belongs to her husband and he used to drive it. It was hard for me to get into it. (and out of it and into it and out of it.......ok, you get my drift!) The agony I was in at Barnes and Noble was indescribable. I wondered how I would be able to walk out under my own steam. But I always do! And this is where I get this "Award Winning Actress" stuff. I was struggling across church a couple of weeks ago, I sing in the choir. I try very hard not to look like I am in distress (why? I don't know, I guess it strikes me as "undignified") and I was dying. One of the women said (because she knows I have "spinal stenosis", had surgery and used to walk with a cane) "Look at how nicely you're walking! You're doing so well!" You can imagine what was going thru my mind.
I am sorry .....I think I'm rambling. This is beginning to take on the look of my journaling!
I think the physical pain has become a habit. Not just for me but for my husband (yes! I am married) and my family. Find her a seat, lift that for her, carry that,is she in pain? For my hubby the physical pain is fairly easy to understand. TMS would not be. They have been very accomadating, if pain is evident. I had to laugh at the suggestion to stop cooking. I have not cooked since my surgery last Fall. I can't stand there and do it. I can't stand at the sink and do dishes. Cleaning has been very "spotty". I do the laundry, but it is a half assed job and I do not carry heavy laundry baskets. Not because I'm afraid it is going injure anything. It is because the pain is so severe I about pass out. Sometimes it is so intense that I vomit. I have everything in my med. cabinet from Percocet to Lortab to Meth and Morphine. NOTHING touches this pain so I don't take any.
I love your Oz signatures. It has always been my favorite movie; as a child and has continued to be as an adult (or is that my IC?) I have always appreciated the messages in that movie and new ones occur to me whenever I watch it again.
Thank you so much.
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 11:55:36
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| ladybug, did the surgery bring you any relief? Or is it the same/worse? |
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LadyBug
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 12:07:34
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It is the same as it was. Some days it hurts more than it used to. Knowing what I know now about TMS, I would guess that it hurts more these days cause I'm "on to it", and it's having trouble letting it go.
I would NEVER recommend this surgery to anyone. Sarno said on PAGE 5 of TDM that "decompression has never been proven to help anyone". Man I wish I had read that before last November.
Mary
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2007 : 13:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
Thanks for the link to your posts from '06. Had to smile, you were asking some of the same questions that I've asked these last few weeks. It gave me hope that we all start crawling here and some of the lucky ones end up pain free.
Yes, most of us crawl first ... you are not alone, and you have as much of a chance at recovery as I did. 
quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
Do you live in SC and did you ever find a TMS doctor nearby?
I'm In NC, but don't have a TMS doctor. I don't need one, as I've seen every other kind of doctor and they ruled out so many diseases ... I know this is TMS.
quote:
Originally posted by LadyBug
I think the physical pain has become a habit. Not just for me but for my husband (yes! I am married) and my family. Find her a seat, lift that for her, carry that,is she in pain? For my hubby the physical pain is fairly easy to understand. TMS would not be. They have been very accomadating, if pain is evident. I had to laugh at the suggestion to stop cooking. I have not cooked since my surgery last Fall. I can't stand there and do it. I can't stand at the sink and do dishes. Cleaning has been very "spotty". I do the laundry, but it is a half assed job and I do not carry heavy laundry baskets. Not because I'm afraid it is going injure anything. It is because the pain is so severe I about pass out. Sometimes it is so intense that I vomit.
Goodness, I agree that the pain becomes a habit. Did you read the fish post today? Very good observation on yourself. For me, my husband did everything for me, w/o a grumble or fuss. It's bizarre, but now I look at that time as if he was enabling me. Not consciously, but his kindess actually gave me an excuse to let the pain take over.
Hmmm, since you aren't doing houselhold things, I am thinking the appropriate challenge for you may be to DO them. Maybe add one thing per week. If it hurts, try to press thru the pain, or cry through it. Yell at it! I often do this, I must look like a crazy person, but slowly my subconscious is learning I'm not cowtowing to it's tricks. I know all about vomiting from pain ... that's one of my brain's tricks too. I think you really need to shake up your routine and tell your brain who's boss.
Have you read James Brady's Painfree for Life? I know, it's yet ANOTHER book, but it helped me to compartmentalize what I needed to do and determine my own action plan for getting better. Just another idea for you.
(((((((((((Mary))))))))))
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 02:33:55
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Hilary
Sometimes when I take control rather than being a victim and push through not changing plans but going for that long hike etc when I've pain, I feel like I am swapping one bully (TMS) for another (Me! Me,the cajouling, you must keep going even though you'd rather sit down and relax, me!) It's hard to find the right balance. Anyone else felt like this?
Lizzie |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 08:24:31
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quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
When I’m in pain or feeling ill and I’ve tried doing the emotional stuff and it doesn’t seem to work, then I find the best solution is to “get angry” with the pain. When I’m in pain I feel like a victim to the pain and that it’s out of my control. (“Oh my God, I feel so awful, I just want to go to bed and do nothing and hope that this will pass.”)
In this case I have to become really determined that I’m the one in control - not the pain (or illness), and I have to tell it very determinedly to go away, carrying on as much as possible with daily activities.
I have to change my thinking from “being a victim” to “being in control” and it can take a very big effort to do that. The effect might not be immediate, but it does work if I keep it up. It can become almost like a battle, with the pain or illness increasing at times, and me falling back into “victim” mode. But I have to keep telling myself that I’m not going to let it continue, I know what’s going on, and I’m the one in charge, not the pain or illness.
Yes, good point Hilary.
This works because the TMS demon needs your identification to wreak its havoc. It needs you to believe that he is YOU... that his pain is your identity. Once he has your consent as a victim, he runs riots, creating symptoms anywhere where you won't look.
Talking to TMS as if it were seperate breaks the identification with the pain. Suddenly you are over here, and the pain is over there. You are no longer one and the same. If you can keep this presence of mind and feeling of being in control, eventually your consciousness will dissolve the TMS, like light shining on darkness.
The danger we must avoid is to then associate with the "battle" with the TMS, rather than the TMS symptoms. This unfortunately puts you back at square one, because they're really one and the same. They both indicate that you've given up presence of mind and are caught up in a drama that the TMS demon is running. Whether he is orchestrating pain symptoms or distractive imaginary battles, the end result is the same - no healing.
Greg.
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 15:29:26
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"The danger we must avoid is to then associate with the "battle" with the TMS, rather than the TMS symptoms. This unfortunately puts you back at square one, because they're really one and the same. They both indicate that you've given up presence of mind and are caught up in a drama that the TMS demon is running. Whether he is orchestrating pain symptoms or distractive imaginary battles, the end result is the same - no healing."
Greg.
Hi Greg, this is an interesting point. What would you say are signs that a person has begun to identify with the battle? I can see how I've identified with the pain, but I'm not sure how I might be able to tell if I start to identify with the battle. Thanks! Corey
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 18:08:52
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The danger we must avoid is to then associate with the "battle" with the TMS, rather than the TMS symptoms. This unfortunately puts you back at square one, because they're really one and the same. They both indicate that you've given up presence of mind and are caught up in a drama that the TMS demon is running. Whether he is orchestrating pain symptoms or distractive imaginary battles, the end result is the same - no healing.
Greg.
this sounds good, but hard to understand, could you clarify a bit more? |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 06:38:34
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Skizzik, Littlebird,
I see it like this...
TMS is like a little demon that lives inside your head. In order for its continued survival it needs to constantly distract you from looking at it head-on. As Sarno documents, once you know what it is and how it works and see it head on, backed up by a reassurance from a doctor (Sarno) that it is actually benign, your consciousness begins to dissolve the TMS demon, and people heal on their own, almost "miracuously".
The TMS demon has many distraction techniques, not only physical pain. It can create anxiety, depression, procrastination, identification with external problems... anything... look at anything other that IT! It knows that when you look at IT in full knowledge that it is really powerless, its days are numbered. So in order to survive it MUST keep distracting you.
Now, if you get so caught up in the drama of "fighting TMS" that you no longer are keeping in mind that TMS is an imposter who steals its power from you by keeping you constantly distracted from it... well, same end result = you don't heal.
A sign that you are getting too caught up in the drama of the battle would be when you start to feel frustration with lack of progress, impatience, anger at TMS itself, helplessness, etc. All these things indicate that you are no longer balanced in your mind.
As Nancy Selfridge says in her TMS Fibro book, the most effective method for dissolving TMS/Fibro is presence meditation. This presence is the light which when shone on the TMS demon causes it to shrivel up and die.
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 07:04:17
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Hilary/All
I have gone right back to your original post and looked at the "shoe" comment and questioned something I do. I'll come clean, I have a shaped special pillow which I find very comfortable in bed at night. I convinced myself this is no big deal to my TMS recovery and avoided questioning its use until today! We are planning to go on a walking weekend in July(That made me feel good...aha challenging my TMS with exercise) but we have to carry all our belongings which means even the travel version of my tempur pillow is too bulky. I now feel annoyed because my safety support is challenged. It's childish, but I want my pillow! I do not want to give it up which shows how much of a crutch it is and the fact it makes me feel safe (my neck will be fine...I have my pillow) means going without it is a little scary. At some level I feel the need to be in control and must not have completely given up my structural injury fears. I suppose the pillow has to go and I should feel pleased that I have identified this TMS block to full recovery but I have not got that "Aha" moment!! I feel annoyed I've found myself out and must venture into that uncomfortable zone of doing battle with TMS! Anyone else relate to this?
Lizzie |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 14:43:38
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quote:
(Lizzie)Sometimes when I take control rather than being a victim and push through not changing plans but going for that long hike etc when I've pain, I feel like I am swapping one bully (TMS) for another
Hi Lizzie,
Sorry to hear that!
I’m a real coward when it comes to pain, so if the pain has got that bad I don’t usually “push through”. (I took a gradual return to activity when recovering from my RSI.) That’s the time when it’s the hardest to turn around those “victim thoughts”, so that brings me to the “compromise” thought (when you’ve retreated to bed with a painkiller):
“OK, you’ve got me this time, but this is only a temporary setback. I know what’s causing this. It’s not the seat (or whatever is apparently causing it), it’s TMS, and I’m not going to let this continue. Your days are numbered!!”
I don’t blame you for being scared at doing without the pillow – recovery is a gradual progression. I’m sure you’ll be fine – a bit like me when I did the course without voice recognition. (See my bio for link to my story.)
Floorten, I like your description. I wasn’t quite sure what you meant either about associating with the “battle” … so thanks for clarifying that.
Hilary N |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 15:50:23
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quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
“My feet are hurting – gosh it must be these new shoes I’m not used to “
Counter-thought: “It’s nothing to do with the shoes”
Hear, Hear !
Seems a fellow poster has gone down this road recently.
And I wonder if she'll "hear" this part.
Beth |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 17:29:14
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| thanx floorten |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 19:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lizzie
I now feel annoyed because my safety support is challenged. It's childish, but I want my pillow! I do not want to give it up which shows how much of a crutch it is and the fact it makes me feel safe (my neck will be fine...I have my pillow) means going without it is a little scary.
Hi Lizzie, Do you believe that pain will resume if you don't use it? I love my tempurpedic-whatever-you-spellit pillow too. Very much. I take it on out-of-town trips. I feel more comfortable using it. I don't believe that I will have neck pain if I don't use it, but I do believe I will not be as ahhh-comfortable. I think there is a difference b/t comfort and crutches. Maybe I'm in denial too, but it's kind of like wanting to sleep in a double bed instead of a single ... b/c you will be more comfort.
Perhaps you could challenge yourself at home and sleep without it. If you have a good night's sleep, then take your comfy one with you.
Again, maybe I'm in denial ... I'm going to sleep without it tonight and see.
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
Edited by - Penny on 06/21/2007 19:31:17 |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 20:00:08
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quote:
I am trying so hard, reading Sarno and journaling and reflecting on past assaults
Ladybug,
One thing I have learned about myself since discovering TMS is that I am a nasty, selfish, self centred, lazy individual who hates having to waste her time on other human beings - be it relatives, neighbours or people I deal with at work. I am obliged to do it but since discovering my real self do not do it any more than I have to and make sure I have lots of nice me time for the things I like in life.
The result is a much more reasonable, calm, happy person (actually pleasanter for the relatives, neighbours and workmates to deal with).
The above quote (assaults!!) and the way you wrote a very understanding explanation of why your daughter might not show empathy to you suggest to me that you are looking for answers to what might be emotional problems in other people rather than in your own deep feelings.
There are often posts here blaming the goodist / perfectionist nature of TMSers for their problems - I think the goodist is just a nastyist who isn't admitting their true feelings. I'm not getting at you, Ladybug, I just suspect that we are all selfish individuals deep down and would be better able to cope if we could admit that.
Anne
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 06:57:11
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Hi Penny
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Lizzie
I now feel annoyed because my safety support is challenged. It's childish, but I want my pillow! I do not want to give it up which shows how much of a crutch it is and the fact it makes me feel safe (my neck will be fine...I have my pillow) means going without it is a little scary.
....................................................................
Hope you see this Penny. Thanks for your comments on the pillow. did you try sleeping without your pillow? I have taken the plunge and got rid of the Tempur pillow. The first morning I felt I had ear ache and since then (3 days) nothing. My neck if anything feels a little better and I feel I've made a little victory, because I've faced a fear and won. Now I've quite a few more fears to face but I'm winning a step at a time and each step reassures me it is TMS I am dealing with.
Lizzie |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 12:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Lizzie
did you try sleeping without your pillow?
Hi Lizzie,
Yes I did ... for a couple nights and the only thing I noticed was I had more dreams that I actually remembered. Other than that, I didn't notice anything.
I'm glad you succeeded! It's little things that challenge our personal status quo that help us on our way to healing!
>|< Penny |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2007 : 13:37:35
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I'm glad, too, Lizzie. One less thing to worry about on the walking weekend. I hope you enjoy it.
Hilary N |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:08:26
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Hey, thanks for this thread. Good stuff!
Just wanted to say that, not really anything to add..
Well actually I do. My thinking, pherhaps with a facet of it a little bit like Wavy Soul's:
I'm God.
I am the center of the universe.
If we don't cooperate wether you like it or not, I'm going to kill myself. Us. The universe will stop existing.
(note the 'us' :P)
It worked for the RSI, works for flare ups, but not for any other symptom so far. :P
PS - I don't really ever want to kill myself. That would make me close to a loser imo. I think, when I die, I realise it was soon enough. I really got a problem with that. I should journal about it. But when I do, all I can think about is 'ow sh!t. time flies.'
Actual PS - One of the 'problems' with this forum is that you people come up with a lot of good stuff. I can't even stay away for a few months without owing to myself that I should read all the good stuff. Someone should make a monthly synopsis of peopletalk and make a podcast out of it. :P
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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You're the one in control, not the pain
