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Sky
USA
96 Posts |
 Posted - 06/07/2007 : 22:42:08
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I'll add to this a sort of interesting related experience. I joined this site a couple months ago.
For the first few weeks, I was sort of addicted to it. I checked it many times a day.
Then I wondered if I was becoming obsessive about reading this site. I wondered if the obsession was a TMS symptom in itself, a distraction from some other emotion I didn't want to face.
I soon found a huge drop in my desire to check this site. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 05:51:03
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There is nothing wrong with checking the board several times a day. This is the only board I am on and I find it to be educational as well, at times, entertaining. There is the ongoing tedious discussion of symptoms by some members, which I find to be annoying and counter-productive, but I still enjoy it a lot.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 06/09/2007 19:17:50 |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 09:54:31
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Most Americans are diverted from feeling their emotions by watching TV all the time. We all have our vices. For me at this time in my life ... this is my tv, only instead of disconnecting from society, I feel ultra connected. Sometimes I sit with you all here in front of my computer and cry ... cry for you, cry for me. And other times I laugh. The board really helps me to connect with many emotions I have repressed all my life, (jealousy, anger, argumentativeness, sadness). I see and learn so much from all of you and your amazing collective ability to convey these emotions. Thank you!!!!!! By reaching out to help others here ... well its really quite self serving. 
As for "the blind leading the blind" ... well, bully for you that you found all the answers thru your doctor, LanyC! If you come back to check our replies to what you seemed to hope would stir up some controversy ... well then you are playing in this game too.
ROAR!!!!!!!!!!!
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
Edited by - Penny on 06/08/2007 10:01:06 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 10:29:56
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Hi Lanycwriter and Penny,
You both wrote excellent posts and I agree with you both. I also saw the TMS doctor alluded to in LA but did not receive the result I had hoped for. LCW's post has given be the thought to call him and enquire if he has any new thoughts on my symptom.
I discovered this board, long after finding out about TMS. I peruse it for cutting edge info on the topic of TMS. I figure one of the good aspects of a commitee is that you have a lot of ears and feelers out there gathering info. Often wrong, but sometimes right.
Many here have seen and will see the Good Doctor and his associates. The info Lancywriter has contributed adds to my knowledge and understanding of TMS and I appreciate her post very much--THANK YOU.
I see her point that this site can become an OCD for some. But the site serves whatever purpose those who contribute make it into. It is for some the ER for chronic reccuring TMS, who are unable to visit a TMS doctor or psycohtherapist for a of DX their latest symptom.
Outside of the books and the TMS doctors and practitioners, this seems to be the place on the planet where TMS info is happening in the now.
Thanks to both of your for your contribution.
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 13:55:27
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lanycwriter said: Isn't the whole point of TMS study to have a "graduation date," so to speak?
Great idea.
~ ~ ~ A Proclaimation ~ ~ ~
"Hear ye, hear ye. All ye who have reached a Majority level of success in their TMS work are hereby and forthwith proclaimed as Graduated from the Forum, to now go forth into the Community as healed Human beings. Ye may return Here in one years time to tell us of your TMS-free endevours."
~ ~ ~
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Edited by - Stryder on 06/08/2007 15:26:55 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 16:43:33
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With all due respect, Shawnsmith, i don't see how one can post on this forum w/o discussing their symptoms: this is the 'TMS Help Forum' as opposed to the "Name-that-shall-not-be-uttered Help Forum"  I understand that it can be "couterproductive" if overdone, but to refer to it as "annoying" and "tedious" sounds more like it is affecting your needs/expectations rather than the poster. How bout the word "frustrating"?
I had a relapse today, but i'm laughing at it and double my effort to be though this once and for all! My goal is to be able to talk about my symptoms til the cows come home, in the past tense, with zero fear of them returning! And i do know how to achieve this, having done it in the past. And, I just finished reading chapter 4 for the 3d time |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 17:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Stryder
~ ~ ~ A Proclaimation ~ ~ ~
"Hear ye, hear ye. All ye who have reached a Majority level of success in their TMS work are hereby and forthwith proclaimed as Graduated from the Forum, to now go forth into the Community as healed Human beings. Ye may return Here in one years time to tell us of your TMS-free endevours."
~ ~ ~
I find this VERRRRRRRRRY amusing. Thanks Stryder! I hear the Pomp and Circumstance in the background! |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 18:16:57
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Newmom,
Great to hear of your success. Have you recorded it on the new “Success Stories” forum which Dave has just started? It would be very encouraging for others to read.
quote:
(tennis tom)
Outside of the books and the TMS doctors and practitioners, this seems to be the place on the planet where TMS info is happening in the now.
I agree. I also think this forum is a great resource. So relatively little is known about TMS. Dr Sarno may have been practising it successfully for 30 years, but I still think it’s useful to have a place where people can say what works for them. In time anyone doing research in this area would find valuable information on this forum.
In addition there are some very thoughtful posts on the forum which I have enjoyed reading.
Hilary N
Edited to add source of quote! |
Edited by - HilaryN on 06/09/2007 03:48:07 |
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 20:05:15
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There's probably another reason docs maintain a low profile about this forum. In today's world of trial lawyers / ambulance chasers, any doc endorsing this site to a patient would be crucified if he/she took advice here and something bad happened - e.g., an underlying real condition went untreated. For example, chest pain has been mentioned as a possible TMS manifestation but it certainly has a serious side also. I'm thinking that there must be more than one doc who visits this site regularly, but is forced to remain anonymous.
Weatherman |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 00:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
[quote] Outside of the books and the TMS doctors and practitioners, this seems to be the place on the planet where TMS info is happening in the now.
That's a really good quote Hilary, I wish I'd thought of that!
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 03:50:11
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 Sorry, TT! Thanks for drawing my attention - it did rather look as though it were Newmom who said it.
Hilary N |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 13:18:18
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hi all
i come here from time to time and read through some of the messages on the board....just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I read dr. sarno's book in 2003 and was able to get rid of my tms in about 7 months.
1. I respect dr. sarno's work as it was life saving for me.....but I don't agree with every word written in his book and if he didn't approve of something I was doing (or any other doctor for that matter-TMS doc or not) I may consider his opinion but I wouldnt swallow it
2. Some people may need to be in pain at this point in their lives, it doesn't mean they are bad/wrong or will never get it....its just where they are right now, having a board like this may or may not be helpful to them, but I think it has to do more with the person than the board itself. we can talk of our own experiences here and what has worked for us but as we see everyday on this board that some people will get better and some won't and thats just how it goes
3. all pain isn't tms pain. I don't think its at all possible for anyone on this board to know the true cause of someone elses pain that just happened to put up a post on this board. IMHO its this type of all or none thinking that can be a contributing factor to TMS. That being said, I do think that TMS is the cause of most chronic pain, I just don't think we should be so quick to tell someone else how to deal with their pain
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bert
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 17:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnD
hi all
i come here from time to time and read through some of the messages on the board....just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I read dr. sarno's book in 2003 and was able to get rid of my tms in about 7 months.
1. I respect dr. sarno's work as it was life saving for me.....but I don't agree with every word written in his book and if he didn't approve of something I was doing (or any other doctor for that matter-TMS doc or not) I may consider his opinion but I wouldnt swallow it
2. Some people may need to be in pain at this point in their lives, it doesn't mean they are bad/wrong or will never get it....its just where they are right now, having a board like this may or may not be helpful to them, but I think it has to do more with the person than the board itself. we can talk of our own experiences here and what has worked for us but as we see everyday on this board that some people will get better and some won't and thats just how it goes
3. all pain isn't tms pain. I don't think its at all possible for anyone on this board to know the true cause of someone elses pain that just happened to put up a post on this board. IMHO its this type of all or none thinking that can be a contributing factor to TMS. That being said, I do think that TMS is the cause of most chronic pain, I just don't think we should be so quick to tell someone else how to deal with their pain
Great post JohnD.
I agreed with your last statement about most chronic pain. And felt this way for the last 3 months. I won't go into any details of my pain. But I will say I am as guilty as the next coming to this forum and hoping for a quick fix of my problems with daily pain. To make this short. I finally went back to my regular doctor for blood work and yearly physical. He knows about my back pain. And wanted me to see a nuerologist his practice hooked up with from the NY Giants for a Dopler test. I agreed as this is a test I backed out of due to being fed up with the medical system. Now this doctor explained in detail with great proficiency what would show up on the screen if thier was a problem with each herniated disc in question. The LCD display showed 2 locations normal. The third had a great deal of distortion which he called problematic. And also explained what areas of pain I would have are consistent with his findings in both legs. One more than the other. He also said there will be no need for surgery.
I mention Dr. Sarno and he knows of him well and agreed with the mind having an effect on our pain threshold. But said he does not feel this is my situation at all. He did agree that fear plays a hugh factor with the healing process. As even with the players he treats on the Giants become healed from intense injury. They still have to be confident in that they are truely healed. He also hinted that these guys get brutally hit and get hurt everytime they're on the field. Once thier confidence goes away so does thier ability to heal themselves in thier own mind.
What bothers me here is that I tried really hard to ignore my pain. Everytime I tried to ignore my pain, within a few steps I got severe shooting pains and would have to stop and rest for days to get back to where I was. By ignoring pain I ended up hurting myself more. The doctor also says I have atrophe going on in one leg. Now, I think it's very important for people to get thoroughly checked and tested before applying TMS techniques. I rushed through the process. Gave up on the medical profession due to frustration with them and getting nowhere.
Only time will really tell if what this last test ends up being the thing that gets me back on the right road to being pain free. But I will give it a shot before I push my body again. And in the mean time I intend to continue dealing with my emotional baggage as I've learned much about myself these past 3 months. But I will also build up my muscle with great care and workout properly knowing I have weak spots to build back up so as not to reinjure myself over and over.
I think it's very important for new members checking here to know to really check out all medical options before appyling TMS to thier beleif systems. Time will tell if my problems are going to be corrected due to this last test. But I seemed to only be hurting myself more by ignoring my pain. I will continue to deal with my emotions from the past. As it's really helped me to know more about myself and also help my daughter in dealing with growing up and not worrying about what others think of her. So she doesn't have too many hang ups later on in life.
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 20:54:57
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Amen to what John Said. Bottom line is that you have to make up your mind personally, but hopefully educate yourself as much as possible before deciding what to do.
Two points: Sarno's theory is revolutionary, and i believe it will earn a place in history. But it's on the cutting edge of our knowlege, and Sarno's the first to admit we haven't scratched the surface of our understanding of mindbody. Quite frankly, perhaps due to his age or personality or whatever, i have personally found him a bit reluctant to consider criticism of his own ideas. Maybe that's just my experience, and it certainly doesn't reduce my admiratioin for him any.
On the other hand, one must remember that the brain will create medical findings that are consistent with "traditional" medical theories: that's part of the whole TMS idea! For example, when i had CTS, nerve conduction tests were done and showed 'positive' results, visible to me, which supposedly would eventually lead to "claw hands" if i didn't have surgery. SO what?? The medical proffession will continue to make these misinformed diagnoses so along as they are unwilling to start realizing how strong the mindbody connection really is. So, while i no longer preach to anyone, certain things send up red flags for me. Like, Bert: how exactly does 'ignoring your pain' make it worse? I don't understand that--are you saying that taking a few steps somehow creates further injury or what? Such statements ive heard time and time again, almost always (key word: almost) by classic TMS sufferors. |
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bert
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:12:06
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| I'm not going to get into telling my whole story. It's not really worth it. But, yes, if I pushed myself after my secondary injury to my knee which I believe is caused from pushing to hard and favoring one side of my body over the other due to back pain at work. Mind you, I do lots of ladder work and stretching as far as possible to make less moves with the ladder. I ended up pulling something in my knee causing me severe pain especially going up or down stairs or a ladder. Now I realize Sarno says the mind has used that excuse to cause my pain. But I have to say I honestly don't believe this in this case. It's similiar to lifting weights and working out to far past the bodies capabilities and injury occurs. Now unless the body is given enough time to heal itself, injury will continue to reoccur. I once had a severe sprain in a sports injury and continued to play that sport. And although I used a special metal brace I kept reinjuring those muscle and also cause damage to other surrounding tissuess. It took alot more time to heal than it should have only because I continued to play. Call it ego or pride or stupidity. Same has applied for me now. And I don't go for the mind causing it in this case. I call it stupidity for continuing to work after only a short healing process by avoiding the pain my body/mind was telling me was there to rest. I tried to work through it. And in the past I have worked through certain pains and by the end of the day I was surprised I was in no more pain. That is what I consider TMS to be. But when real injury occurs, I say make sure you heal this injury first and re strenthen those surrounding muscle. To lift more weight you have to work up to it by slowly increase the amount each week or workout. Same applies here. If I try to lift a 100 extra pounds than I used to, then of course I going to most likely cause injury to myself. Same goes if I'm hurt and lift when I should have rest. More injury happens. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 07:17:22
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Bert, how long ago has it been since your injury?
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 09:57:55
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| The great thing about opening our minds up to all the various possibilities to the causes of our pain - physical and nonphysical - is that from this vantage point we can start to use our minds to our advantage. Rather than trying to force ourselves to ignore the pain, we can listen to it and use what it says to help us rule out either a physical cause or a psychological cause. We can carefully observe our pain all day long, keep a journal about it and note the patterns of it. Then after observing it we can figure out if it makes sense. Asking ourselves questions like "if my back were really hurt, would it only hurt during this movement or at this time of the day", or "is what I'm feeling really pain, or is it tingling or some other sensation that I've become accustomed to labeling as pain" or "if this were a structural issue wouldn't it be getting worse after I do this activity, so then howcome its the exact same pain I had before the activity". Just getting curious with our bodies and our pain can help us look at our situation more objectively, and more honestly instead of out or worry, or trying to force ourselves to believe something that we really don't. Then we can actually arrive at a conclusion that is based on our own experience and will help us to ignore the pain because we've done the necessary legwork to creat the foundation for that belief. |
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bert
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 10:24:18
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The knee/leg/foot area has been about a month now.
The back has been about a year and a half of work affected pain. Prior to this has been minor back pain with and episode here and there of bed rest since surgery in 97. Surgery was very successful BTW. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 10:39:12
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Bert
Well, if you really hurt yourself due to an injury no one is going to argue here that your pain is due to TMS. But if it is still hurting after several months then our sucpisions will begin to increase as the body, under normal conditions, heals itself.
Best of luck.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
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bert
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 11:01:23
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I wasn't going to post this after I read it. It's way too loog. But I decided to anyway. Before you read this, just know I don't mean it to be a blanket statement for anyone else but me. Everyone has to make thier own stand.
The knee area started last month while pushing to complete a job for work. Now the back which has been the long term problem has been going on for 1 and 1/2 years. I will say it has been getting better and better as I stay away from heavy laborous activity. Such as heavy lifting of repetitive hours of constrution work. My regular Doctor swears the knee area is a direct result of favoring my back muscle from my work load. And putting too much effort to one side. And I do agree after noticing how I'm walking on the balls of my foot on the one side to avoid severe pain. And it's only severe when on verticle. The back area first became severe after doing cememt work, digging holes for decks. pouring cement for a walkway, making garden beds and help moving somebody within a 2 month period in the winter of 2006. And at that time I did ignore the pain everyday of that period until I ended up not being able to move while trying to help someone move a house full. From that period on I tried to go back to work after a week or two of rest. Each time I tried to do what I do at work, which is very similiar to above except not as exausting and such a short period of time, I would re-injur my back muscles and have to rest. I finally went to doctors after 3 months of pushing myself at work and having to have to stay home for more rest than work. They found 3 herniation at that time and put me on therapy, etc. They said to stay away from the type of work I do until I can heal. Unfortunately, if I don't work enough, I can't pay the mortgage and other bills I told them. I did have some money put asside for this. But not much, so I continued to try to work through the pain and came home to ice it all night and go to work again the next day pretty much up until 6 months ago. Then I was unloading some equipement from my van and trying to organize the inside when I had pulling sensation in my back. I ignored it and continued working. I felt a twinge getting stronger and somewhat painful towards the end of the night while resting. The next morning I couldn't get out of bed to easily. It started again
Well this is my point. I worked through the pain, and paid the price by reinjuring or keeping my body from healing itself. Regardless of how long it's been since either my back or knee problem. People need to let thier bodies do what it is made to due. It will take a very long time for even a kids body to heal if they keep running around and playing through pain. As a parent I doubt any of us would allow them to continue doing this until thev've healed properly. I know I won't. But for myself, I'll keep pushing when I start to feel just a bit better. And at 50 my body won't heal properly compared that to a child. So as we get older we should take more care of injury than when younger. What do we do? The opposite, for many of us. We force re-injury because we are responsible to pay those bills and irresponsible to our bodies. Oh yes, I forgot to mention I don't get paid if I don't work. So yes this added stress will impair my ability to heal.
All I'm really trying to say here is this. I wouldn't be so quick to tell someone that they should ignor pain and that you have TMS, regardless if they really do or not. Because no one but that individual really knows their whole story and medical history of injury. I truely do believe a big part of my pain is mind induced but not to the degree that the mind is totally responsible. The body does need it's time too. Fear is the biggest problem in my opinion. Prior to any injury in my life as a kid I was indestructable. Once that first major injury occured, I became affraid to go through that pain again. My body was no longer prepared to do anything and adapt to those split second moves we can do to protect ourselves from getting hurt.
I've read many post here almost advising individuals to go on with thier lives and ignor the pain and do the normal activities they would without the pain. Well I did, and found myself in worse shape. And I've read the post about it's the mind creating pain in different areas and to ignor this too. Well I did that too. I'm now at the point now where if I'm not able to work due to pushing myself through all the pain my mind has created I will have to sell my house or foreclose. The advice given here is at times irresponsible toward others situations. I can't imagine how many individuals have come and gone from this forum who no one has really heard from again. And if so, what was thier outcome.
Sure I've read the success stories and I have been very motivated from these. But I've gone through these post to find out that they are very few. Most still have quite a bit of pain. Of all the members that have joined in, how many have become pain free. That is a answer I really want to hear about. I know there are some, but really how many would be nice to know.
One more thing, I've re-read my post here. And towards the end of it, I sound somewhat vandictive. I don't mean to be. I was just stating an opinion. I don't care to make anyone else angry I'm just fed up with me and I'm trying to get to the bottom of this with real facts. And as John above mentioned, it's a great thing to open up our minds to the various possibilities. |
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What does Dr. Sarno say about this forum?
