| Author |
 Topic  |
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2007 : 09:47:53
|
I've often been accused of driving people away from the board, and that's quite a burden to have to bare. I've been giving this a little thought since I've been advised that I need to perform deep soul-searching and prostrate myself for my sins against the board.
After a little thought, I came to some conclusions of my own. I think many more are driven away from the board due to the cost of admission having to adhere to the liberal party line of PC.
I think many are driven away because they have recognized they weren't willing to sell their intellectual souls, to pay the price of admission. But, these folks go quietly and aren't a bunch of cry-babies about it, leaving a trail of profanities in their departure.
I don't recall ever starting any political discussions. I came here out of interest about an exciting topic, psychosomatic medicine, here referred to as TMS. But, if a political topic was raised I injected my 2 cents. For having the temerity to do so, I am skewered, vilified, demonized and generally made to feel like the board crank. If that's the cost of standing up and speaking one's views, so be it.
The price of admission here is you MUST adhere to the party-line, the main precepts being: Bush bad, Walmart bad, Global Warming not to be questioned, Pot and drugs victimless crimes, tobacco bad and so on and so on.
In reality, I am a political moderate and my views are shared by about half the country, and, as the recent elections in Germany and France have proven, the majority of the voters in those countries as well.
I think many more are driven away from the board by having to adhere to it's predominately liberal-eltiest bent, but they go quietly with-out being cry-babies about it.
When the head count is done, who is really driving who away from the board?
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
|
|
JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 11:52:18
|
| TT -- I think you are being too hard on yourself. You have helped me a lot and others probably more than you know. Just keep on passing on good advice and the bleep with anyone who doesn't like it or has issues. Don't stop with the advice. |
 |
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 11:57:48
|
This board should not be about politics, period. I don't really care what bias it has, if any. If anyone is being driven away by politics, I surmise it's because of the excessive political content and political conflict that takes place, not because of its specific political tenor. I don't recall anyone saying they were leaving because the board was full of liberals OR because it was full of conservatives, either one. If you feel responsible for causing people to leave the board, it's not your politics you should change but your style. You put way more than your two cents in. If you feel the need to have your say, have your say and let it lie. Your TMS posts are great, and your contributions to the board are many. I'd rather see more of that than more pointless argument.
TMS is basically apolitical. We should all have the wisdom to leave it that way. And frankly I'd be quite happy if Dave froze or deleted all threads that turned to politics, though he doesn't seem to want to go that route.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
|
Shary
147 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 13:09:35
|
| Tom, we already know you're a highly knowledgeable person with a quick mind and a way with words. Why do you feel the need to keep beating us over the head with it? People come here to learn what they can about TMS. In that respect your posts are a desirable contribution. This Inner-Child-acting-out stuff isn't. If people are leaving the board, it might be because they aren't interested in petty squabbles and a predominantly ME-ism bent that has nothing to do with TMS. |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 13:39:38
|
quote:
For having the temerity to do so, I am skewered, vilified, demonized and generally made to feel like the board crank.
Seems to me you must enjoy it TT...You keep starting threads about yourself... Forum's not about you, not about me, not about anyone. About your politics, I don't think most people give a damn. I do because I think your views are borderline absurd sometimes, but so what? YOu claim not to care, and yet it's evident by this attention seeking that you care very much.
What's the deal TT? |
Edited by - art on 05/21/2007 13:42:48 |
|
|
|
truenorth
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 14:17:24
|
| Here we go with another infatile, mud-slinging, horse****. completley off-topic thread. |
|
|
|
h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 15:07:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by truenorth
Here we go with another infatile, mud-slinging, horse****. completley off-topic thread.
God, I hope so. It's the only reason half of us still tune in. 
Beth |
|
|
|
Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 16:01:35
|
From the creator...
quote:
Originally posted by austingary - 06/29/2004 : 14:51:50
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=80&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=support
One other thing. This board is Dave's baby now; you would have to ask him what he thinks it is and where he thinks it is going. But when it was my board, I never, ever thought of it as being a "support" group where people get together to trade positive affirmations. It was always a place for discussion and, yes, argument on topics related to TMS. That also involved people helping people, which was good, but that was not all the board was about...
We have had chiropractors, medical doctors and other medical and quasi-medical practitioners post here, people who were 100% opposed to everything Dr. Sarno stands for. They were not thrown off the board because they were not "positive" enough or didn't believe correctly enough; they were answered, questioned, contradicted -- which they were not used to, and they went away.
I fear for this country, one reason being that the schools no longer teach anyone how to think; they are only interested in teaching them what to think, i.e., political progaganda. In fact, any student who knows how to think and practices it -- meaning putting ideas, logically, to the test -- does not usually get along very well with the teachers and administrators.
Some of the people who post here are prime examples of those who simply have no clue about or any interest in thinking rationally. They are quite happy to simply choose what to believe and then never take in anything that doesn't support those beliefs.
This is a formula for totalitarianism. Let the sheep now all go, "Baaaaaaaaaa"!
|
Edited by - Stryder on 05/21/2007 16:07:16 |
|
|
|
allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 17:03:35
|
Stryder, that is a GREAT line- I love it---
This is a formula for totalitarianism. Let the sheep now all go, "Baaaaaaaaaa"!
On the issue of politics, etc, it is obviously a tremendous source (for both ends of the spectrum as well as the middle) for feeling powerless, suppressed, repressed, taken advantage of, abused, mis-used, controlled, having to endure the total vacating of logic (hey, I don't have to like a law, but as long as it has a logical chance of doing some good, I don't mind so much).
The problem I see on this forum is so often people get more wrapped up in debating some hot-button issue rather than dealing with how the issue drives their TMS. Then more & more people pile on, and well, you already know how it always turns out.
The additional problem, even worse, is that many people come here really in pain, trying to believe in TMS, and needing help, but don't get it, or help is greatly delayed, because everyone is too busy "enjoying the fisticuffs" one thread over. It would be like calling the fire department because your house is on fire, but they're all out in the parking lot arguing with the police over whose job is more dangerous.
Many people love to debate in front of others (and I'm not referring to anyone in particular-if the shoe fits, wear it). Many of the issues debated so fervently here would not last 15 minutes if the exchange was taken to a private email or other "closed session" because no one else would be there to persuade or impress.
The next time such a thread starts where someone is in a TMS flare-up due to some political thing that really "gets their goat", I'd really like to see the gang here rally around that person, help them sort out WHY that political thing upsets them, maybe help them see how their personality makes them "prey" for TMS (for example, they may be a perfectionist dealing with a very imperfect political system, or something like that).
Are we all "big enough" to help someone in a crisis like that, and keep our own pet issues out of the debate until the person is taken care of? If yes, people will keep coming and finding help. If no, no one will be driven away. People will simply, eventually, come to conclusion that this forum is a waste of their time, if TMS help is what they seek.
After all, this is the "TMS Help" forum, is it not?
Allen |
Edited by - allen_non on 05/21/2007 17:05:41 |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 17:36:56
|
We all flare up for various reasons, but rarely for the reasons we tell ourselves. We on this message board are TMS type personalities and, at the same time, in strong denial about who we really are as the reality threatens how we see ourselves. I speak for myself first and foremost.
Now, on the question of Walmart- which I don't shop at- here are a few links regarding what some people think of the corporation:
http://walmartwatch.com/
http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/
http://www.walmartmovie.com/
http://www.hel-mart.com/links.php
Walmart's estimated cost to the Federal govt since Jan 2006, due to tax loop holes, is over $3.7 billion.
But somehow I feel that topic is not about Walmart at all, but a desire to be right- which is not a bad thing - but can drive one to distraction.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
|
Edited by - shawnsmith on 05/21/2007 17:52:57 |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 18:05:00
|
No wonder this board keeps getting consumed by political flames. Every thread that's supposed to be a discussion of anything else that even touches on politics gets someone poking their head in, having to have their say about the politics itself.
quote:
Now, on the question of Walmart- which I don't shop at- here are a few links regarding what some people think of the corporation:
What is actually the case with Walmart has nothing to do with this thread, yet it's been brought up anyway. Why? Here the answer is, by the same person who can't let it go:
quote:
But somehow I feel that topic is not about Walmart at all, but a desire to be right- which is not a bad thing - but can drive one to distraction.
And can drive everyone else to distraction too.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
|
Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 18:29:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
When the head count is done, who is really driving who away from the board?
Just like some of us give up on psychotherapy, or give up on TMS Dx or TMS work, some of us choose not to stick around through the reality of people just being people: opinionated, empassioned, sometimes insensitive, but always imperfect.
Therapy imitates life, and our TMS forum ALSO imitates life,that's why I have found it profoundly helpful on my TMS journey. If a person doesn't like a thread, and keeps going back for more then this experience in itself can be a tool to help understand why you keep putting yourself purposefully in discomfort's way.
Like each other or not, share each other's opinions or not, we are all in this crazy world together--on the board or waiting inline at the check out in the grocery store.
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 18:50:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
What is actually the case with Walmart has nothing to do with this thread, yet it's been brought up anyway. Why?
As not why, but instead ask why not?
*******
Sarno-ize it!
|
|
|
|
allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 19:50:34
|
Sigh...... "Walmart" for cryin' out loud... Did you not read a single word here? I guess there is no use in trying to improve this.
Enjoy your forum. I'm outta here. Won't even be lurking. I'll seek any "TMS help" I need elsewhere.
If anybody wants to drop me a line sometime, about TMS or fitness, feel free to do so to:
allen_non(at yahoodotcom)
Best wishes to all the sincere truth seekers out there,
Allen |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 20:32:00
|
Yet another person exits from the board in a fit of TMS rage.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
|
|
|
|
Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 20:40:22
|
Here are a couple facts.
The TMSHelp Forum is a public, moderated forum.
Its public, like a city street. If you don't like the looks of the restaurant on the corner, you choose not to have lunch there. If you don't like the sign on the wall, you ignore it.
Its moderated, meaning the steward(s) read most of what gets posted, and opens the gate to let the content stay. Unless a post is way, way out-o-bounds, there is very little in the way of editing.
Public. Moderated. That's how austingary conceived the forum, and that's how Dave maintains it.
Choose which posts you want to participate it, and just forget the ones that don't interest you. That's what I do. There's way more good posts than off topic ones.
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 05/21/2007 20:44:54 |
|
|
|
electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 20:54:22
|
TT, just for the record, I voted for Bush even though I don't agree with him on everything (He was a better candidate than the alternatives).
I love Wal-Mart (I bought WM stock back in the early 80's and sold it in 1999. Made a ton of money)and I shop there often.
I think global warming (caused by mankind) is BULL ****. I'm just proud I am spending my time on this earth during a warming trend instead of an ice age. The earth's climate has flip flopped back and forth for millions of years and its going to do it again no matter what the tree huggers try to do.
It pains me for liberals to compare our troops to the murdering bastards who strap bombs to little children and have them walk into a building full of people. (I have many friends and family in the military.)
I try not to argue politics with a liberal because:
1. Your not going to change their mind.
2. I'm not very good at it.
Your very good at it. Keep hammering them.
Your TMS post are excellent. |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 00:00:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by art
You keep starting threads about yourself...
Not true Art! I very seldom start posts. I defend myself when attacked, which has been a lot by you in the past, although we have buddied-up pretty well recently, like Stalin and FDR, (guess who is who?). I simply had a thought about all the times I've been accused of driving people away from the board and that, maybe, some have been driven away by other's borderline absurd politics, not just mine.
You pick on me a lot Art and accuse me of stuff that you overlook in other's. Maybe you should do some of the inner-work in that regard you often prescribe me to do. A lot of people start posts here about themselves, why do you insinuate only ME of being egotistical?
As far as I'm concerned, people can start as many posts here as they want and about anything they want to and it doesn't offend or bother me a bit. If it helps them feel better, more power to 'em. There's just a chance someone in cyberspace may be interested or amused by their miscellaneous ramblings.
Actually, now that I see the dynamic, vigorus and honest discussion that has been aroused, I do feel a little proud of myself and think it's a good thing. I thank Stryder for posting AustinGary's views on what he thought his board's purpose was for. He clearly didn't intend it to be a one sided, one minded, mutual admiration society.
As for those who are driven away, by who-ever's politics, sarcasm, obnoxious style or lack of TMShelp computer-side manners, they may be better off just reading the books.
I never knew about this forum for years. I just read Dr. Sarno's books. When I discovered the forum, I lurked for a long time and read
ALL the archived posts.
If folks come here, stumble on, or involve themselves in a little board spat, causing such dis-comfort to their psyche, that they cut and run, maybe they are looking for too quick of a TMS silver- bullet cure and should spend some time using the search feature studying the archives.
It's all very simple. If they have a question, someone will answer it here eventualy. If they are here for suppport, attention or friendship, and don't find it--there's always Starbucks.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
Edited by - tennis tom on 05/22/2007 00:49:04 |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 07:38:03
|
For the life of me, I just can't figure out why the same cycle repeats over and over.
There's the potential for an interesting sociological experiment here, I think. Nevertheless, this thread will be deleted soon as will any other off topic threads that deteriorate. Please re-acquaint yourself with the policy of the forum, and feel free to have political debates elsewhere. |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 09:46:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
For the life of me, I just can't figure out why the same cycle repeats over and over.
There's the potential for an interesting sociological experiment here, I think. Nevertheless, this thread will be deleted soon as will any other off topic threads that deteriorate. Please re-acquaint yourself with the policy of the forum, and feel free to have political debates elsewhere.
Hi Dave,
It's just human nature. Every board I've seen on occassion has flames--some folks get into car wrecks and others need to slow-down and look. I don't think we are going to change that here.
I would suggest that, if it's a problem, (which it may or may not be since, this could just as well be called the PsychologyBoard as the TMSHelp Board), perhaps another Board Forum for "Off-Topic or Political" stuff be created. That would probably require topics to be "moved" by a moderator, as these things originate out of seemingly nowhere and take on a life of their own. I'm not looking for more work for you since I appreciate your keeping the board going.
Sociolgicaly, it may serve a purpose of group catharsis or a form of Darwinian natural selection--those who's "fat mouthed opinion genes" are left get to repropagate and carry-on.
Dave, you can scuttle this one into the black-hole of cyberspace at your will. I started the topic because it occured to me that there may be two sides to the issue of "who is running who off the board?".
I was just surmising that some folks come here, obtain clarification of TMS "knowledge penicilin" issues, get well, don't want to waste their time defending a moderate political position (that's me) and split quietly, with-out acting like cry-babies, leaving a trail of curses and name calling in their wakes.
(When Dave jetisons this thread, I will be selling trancripts to board members at a 10% discount).
Cheers,
tt
|
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 12:26:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by electraglideman
I think global warming (caused by mankind) is BULL ****.
I was just now birating a friend of mine via e-mail for having 5 cars. She respoded by writing: "Who gives a **** --- we are only going through this world once."
*******
Sarno-ize it!
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Who's Driving Who Off The Board?
