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Guy
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:53:43
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I would like to ask a TMS question.Does everyone consider shin splints a physical problem?
In Sarno's book Mindbody Prescription he says shin splints are TMS tendonitis pg.101-102
I am a runner and have always used the method of texasrunner and ran thru the pain.I have had a bruised shin(shin splint I think) for 4 weeks.I have been using Sarnos method to get rid of it.
I ran 10 miles today with only mild pain ,2 days before I could barely make 2 miles,and today it is sore only to the touch.
Should I keep running or switch to rest and ice?I really do not know what to do. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:49:37
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| If you're having success, why even consider ice and rest? If the pain is TMS that's a sure way to make it worse. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 09:54:02
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I'm with Dave. I was somewhat confused by your post. Things were getting better-why stop what was working, apparently, very well for you and change the program to ice and rest 
When I was running long distances, and got an injury, I always tried running through it if I could. If it felt better, I kept going, if it didn't I'd try something else, like walking. If it was visibly swollen, bloody, or bones sticking out, I would consider seeing a doc.
I was using ice for my butt, up until this year. I would laboriously triple bag the ice so it wouldn't leak, stick it under my gym tights to hold it there and drive home. It offered some placebo and some anesthtic-pain masking relief. I also swallowed OTC pain-killers by the handful until they gave me an ulcer. I no longer ice or take any pills including vits. I've saved a lot of time, money and all those messy ice bags.
I did pop two aspirins a coulple of nights ago, for the first time since Jan. I felt some chest pain in my left pec. I had a very vigorous day, drove up and down California, played in a tennis tournament, had a lot of caffeine, a beer, a vigorous swim, a hot tub, and a big meal.
Got a little panicky from the chest pain and thought heart attack? It was just a mini panic attack, stress and fatigue induced. Nothing like thinking you're on your death bed to raise your pulse. I've had a couple of panic attacks in my life, spaced about ten years apart. I used my TMS thinking to calm myself and it went away. Even my lady-friend noticed something was wrong and I was breathing funny. It was from the fear. It went away after about ten minutes and I had a great night's sleep. As Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself." |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 11:39:08
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I think I understand what Guy is saying. As a runner, if you continue to run, you always have that mindset - "am I making things worse" by trying to run through pain. I think I can relate - I know whenever I get an "injury", it is months and months before I get better. How can that possibly be? Treatments, NSAIDS, don't work. But ..... there is always the thought - maybe there is something else out there. How can I run with pain in my groin/foot/shin? If I run, won't it set back the healing process.
I know I go through those questions. I am currently fighting groin/pelvic pain. Have been running about 5 months since my last "injury". I am so disappointed that more pain has come on. But running through pain is a very very very very difficult thing to do.
Can anyone relate?
Thanks |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 12:01:59
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I absolutely can relate to running through pain! It is very difficult indeed. I have just started back myself, after stopping in May. I enjoy long distance running and ran my 8th marathon a year ago. I have worked my way back to almost 3 miles, but it feels like I'm fighting with my brain the whole way. Lately, when I feel some pain, I try and run faster - just to tick it off. 
I think fear is our biggest problem. "Am I making it worse if I keep going." |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 12:45:58
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Michele:
I too am a distance runner but have constantly been "injured". I have been working on the TMS stuff. I had hamstring pain this summer and managed to run through it and sort of beat it. Now Sunday this groin/pelvic pain arose and I am confused as to what to do. I guess I don't have the confidence to continue to run through the pain because the "will it get worse" thought prevail. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 14:49:20
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Jack:
The first thing I usually do if I get a "new" pain is try to think about what is going on in my life. Dr. Schechter's Workbook repeats a question quite often: "What's going on in your life today?" So I start at the beginning of the day and just replay everything I can think of, and how I felt about things, i.e. angry, disappointed, frustrated, sad, etc. Journaling tends to dredge up some emotions you weren't aware you were hiding. I'm still learning how to journal. I tend to write a narrative of my day, instead of writing about my feelings. But I'm trying!
Another thing Sarno says about pain is does it get worse, or does it come and go? Has the groin pain been getting worse or just staying about the same? If it stays the same or gets better now and then, it's probably TMS.
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 15:56:39
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Michele.
I think what I have difficulty with is accepting whether or not it is a true injury. Runners get hurt - that's a given. Running is definitely hard on the body.
The only thing I can say is that I have gotten hurt much much much more than most runners. My healing is much much much slower than other runners. And I do not respond to treatments as others do. That is why I have investigated the TMS aspect. I cannot believe that every 5 months I would break down with another injury.
There is definitely stuff going on in my life. I know if I went to doctors, had x-rays and had treatments, it wouldn't help - but that doesn't stop me from thinking that there is a cure out there. As Monte would say on his website - that isnot being in the present!!!!!
So I am torn. I am discouraged and not sure what to do now.
Thanks all. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 16:03:48
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Jack:
Maybe you are CONDITIONED to get an injury? Just a thought. Maybe your brain has equated running = injury and so it is. Perhaps your work needs to be de-conditioning yourself that running equals an injury.
Start saying to yourself first thing in the morning, during the day and right before you go to bed, something about running is strength, running is freedom, running makes me feel great, running is effortless. Your brain is playing tricks on you and making you think you will "always be injured".
I have conditioned myself to believe I'll be stiff if I sit too long. |
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Guy
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 16:13:42
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| Thank you for all your replies.I really think my shin splint is TMS again.I think Michele said it perfectly I felt"Am I making it worse" by running thru the pain.It is so hard to get over those thoughts.I had terrible knee pain after a half marathon 3 months ago and I just kept running thru it and it went away in 6 weeks(along with alot of journaling and re reading Sarno. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 16:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by jack
Runners get hurt - that's a given. Running is definitely hard on the body.
With this attitude it's no wonder TMS pain continues. |
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floridaboy
40 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 14:52:25
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OK...I read throught these posts and all I can say is "welcome to my world". I have been training for the Disney marathon since this summer. I have had shin pain, foot pain, calf pain, hip pain, you name it pain. It is all TMS. Running is not "hard on your body". We have simply been bombarded with this "running programming" stuff since childhood. TMS loves to manifest itself in runners because we are the perfect people. Obviuosly we are driven. Obviously we are proned to think physically and not physchologically. Runners have a witches brew of TMS symptoms just waiting to surface. I can't tell you how many times this past 4 months I have been completely convinced my running days are over. Each time I power through it and 100% of the time I emerge successful on the other side cursing myself for beeing tricked by my brain once again. My TMS doctor said "shins splints are BUNK"..."knee pain (patella femeral syndrome was the diagnosis)...BUNK". She said..."physically...you could run the marathon with a refridgerator on you back". Just open a Runner's Digest and see how 75% of the articles are about injuries and all the crazy things you can do to prevent them. All of those runners that never seem to get hurt...the only difference between them and us is what is between our ears. I am convinced that ALL world class athletes are just not prone to TMS. They must have less sensitivity to emotions trying to surfce in the conscious mind. Granted the are blessed with many talents...but many talented people fail due to "injury". I am the perfect storm of TMS traits. No surprise I have been "prone to injury" all of my life. There is NO doubt in my mind that this is 100% attributable to TMS and not my DNA. My body is strong...my mind wants to trick me into thinking it is not. So what do you do. EVERY single time I stop reading Sarno, stop visiting this site, and get a lazy attitude about journaling, I experience a set back in my marathon training. I am going through it right now. I did the longest run of my life last weekend, 16.5 miles (I have adequately built up my distances slowly and warmed up every time before I run). This is from a guy would couldn't walk/stand with out pain 6 months ago. I felt cocky...stopped journalling and reading and POOF....Hip pain! Well...never had that before...maybe I really hurt myself this time? Gosh...I wonder if I have bad hips or I wonder if I hurt them on that long run? This TMS stuff is evil. It is like Arnold Schwartzenegger (sp?) in Terminator...IT WILL NOT STOP! This is a war, not a battle. The second you think you can lay off for a while...the second it finds a way back to the distraction stage. I think there are people out there with some minor emotional issues that get TMS, read the book and get curred. I think the people on this message board have some significant issues that are just still "unresolved" and TMS will fight unitl they are. My issues are simple...youngest kid (big family...brother and sisters beat the hell out of me...Dad used everything he could find to beat me...Mom beat me...Paddles, spoons, boards, hands, belts, lincoln logs...name it. Dad was mega intense and under lots of pressure raising a big family with no money. That's not an excuse, just the environment we were in. We all love each other and care for each other...but are in each others face the moment things turn upside down (we're part Irish and German. I became the perfect little perfectionist and did whatever I could to keep the spotlight off of me for 30 year. Then one day in my late 20's...I "broke". My TMS Symptoms are too long to list and I have serious pyschological identity disorders to boot (depersonalization/disassociation). My internal language I use to talk to myself is horrific. I beat myself up by the minute...even when I am telling myself not to! I finish everything 4.0 or top of the class...The funny thing is that the perfectionism has come with great rewards...I have been extremly successful in "our society"...titles, awards, have millions in $...talk about your conflicts. So daily I fight the good fight...trying to reprogram 39 years of internal torment. I am convinced I will win...but also realistic that it will be YEARS before I will be symptom free. Maybe not...but frankly I do not care. My life is sooooo much better now that I have discovered what the heck was going on with my life. This is a fight I can fight. So tomorrow I will run 10 miles and tonight I will read an journal to get ready for the run.
The TMS'r in me wantd to apologize for the long, extremly personal post...but I wont. That's why we all come to this site isn't it? to get better? Well posting this made me feel better...so instead of sorry...I will say Thank you. |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 15:17:14
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Florida Boy-Great post and don't be embarrassed, you said alot. I think you are very correct in that runners are prone to TMS. I often wonder how come all my running friends do not get "injured" like i do. These runners are all type A personalities as I am, they are all focused as I am BUT THEY DON'T GET HURT, and if they do, IT IS FOR 2-4 weeks maximum. What is in my personality that causes this? I am in the midst of groin pain now and my typical mindset is coming to the surface -- why me, why does this always happen to me, why can't I run for more than 5 months w/o getting injured? why do other people get a pain, run through it and are fine? I fight these questions often. It definitely becomes an obsession - I guess I focus alot on other people - why can I never run a marathon like everyone else - why can't i get through the training w/o getting hurt? I am so jealous of most runners. I am a good runner, I have potential but I can never live up to it because of all the time off I have to take.
I am trying to change this negative mindset when history is so strong. The doubts are just so strong - if I run, it won't get better, if I run, it will hurt and that's no fun. By changing my thoughts, and way i look at the pain, I am hoping for a different outcome.
Just some thoughts. Thanks
Jack. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 10:31:51
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Great post Floridaboy! Thanks for having the courage to share your life and your war with TMS with us. You could submit your post as an op-ed piece to a running magazine. I feel you will make it through your marathon. In my running days I completed 13 of them.
I could do half's with no problem, but with the marathon, the outcome was always a mystery. I recall the last part of the race was more in the my mind than my legs. TMS thinking should be a great help to you in the race.
I proved TMS's value just a week ago when I did one of my sporadic jog/walks. I started out with my chronic right hip TMS pain. I said to myself to just stick it out for ten minutes. I did, and the pain went away, in my hip completely, and it never felt beter. Big breakthrough!  Now I have to use my TMS thinking to bannish my pain on the tennis court. This is much more difficult because I am presenly stuck. I'm stuck mostly playing with club players, who are for the most part no fun   to play with. They don't understand it's supposed to be PLAY  . They are terrible sports, cheat, can't remember the score, can't see the ball, can't hear. Other than that they're real S.O.B.'s.  My TMS hip can only take it for about two hours before it locks up, and I'm forced to hobble around.
So, I'm stuck for now at this beautiul club with a bunch of un-fun spoil-sports. I can hardly wait to get my new Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and hit the road. After much hard work, for more than ten years, I'm getting good enough to give tournament players a match. I hope to travel the good old USA and compete in Senior tennis tournaments, where the real players are.
Floridaboy, I just have this feeling that you will complete the marathon and many more. It's a great confidence builder, finnishing a marathon, and knowing that you can go the distance. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/07/2004 21:34:49 |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 02:52:36
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Some nice posts there guys,
First thing I'd like to say... humans as a physical creature... we are pretty much built to run.... to hunt to farm(to a lesser extent) to survive.... the thing our body is best designed for is running and strenuous physical activity.
quote:
Originally posted by jack
...becomes an obsession - I guess I focus alot on other people - why can I never run a marathon like everyone else - why can't i get through the training w/o getting hurt? I am so jealous of most runners...
I know I often have such thoughts... is this part of the not looking inward? towards our true feelings and emotions?
just reminds me of an important factor of TMS is fixing it yourself... the blaming others and looking for others to fix our problems is a large hurdle I think. As much as it is a standard part of modern Western society - not taking responsibility.
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I'm stuck mostly playing with club players, who are for the most part no fun to play with.
Yeah I get some very noticeable and distinct pain symptoms when an activity starts to become unenjoyable... playing a game visiting people etc can be wonderful and painfree(even more painfree than average) until I start not enjoying it and then surprise surprise my pain starts asserting itself.
It is quite interesting, as I'm starting to learn specific situations, which psychologically trigger pain... very interesting
And I think if we haven't realised it already - beating TMS is very much about understanding ourselves. |
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Guy
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 19:18:51
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| I just wanted to tell everyone that you all had some great posts!It inspired me alot and made me keep running every day.I worked even harder on thinking psychological and not physical.I ran all last week 3 miles a day with only minor pain in my shin.Sunday I ran 10 miles with NO PAIN at all!The pain I had is GONE.So to everyone do not give up just KEEP FOCUSING it does work!DR.SARNO is right! |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 08:30:30
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Floridaboy! Great post and good luck at Disney! I ran the Disney marathon in January of 2003, the first of 3 marathons that year. Be sure and bring "disposable" clothing because it's cold at the beginning and usually warms up. You will do a great job!
As for running, I'm up to 4 miles this morning! Yep, all the parts are screaming for attention, but I'm ignoring them! It's getting better as the day goes on, so the TMS gremlins are losing their strength. To all the runners out there - GREAT JOB! |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 08:48:12
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Michele-
Great job - 4 miles - superb. I still have continual groin pain. I took a week off but I decided to run on Tuesday. It hurt but I am trying not to obsess and get all worked up. I think Floridaboy was so correct in saying that some of us runners have the TMS propensity. Perhaps I take a little pain and create an "injury" because I am scared, fearful that it will linger, etc. They always have. I am going to run again tomorrow and see if I can ignore it like you can. I took the most powerful anti-inflammatory (medrol dose pak) and that didn't do a thing. It cannot be inflammed then. IN the back of my mind I need more reassurances!!!
Thanks.
Jack |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 09:12:15
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Good going, Michele and Guy! Three marathons in one year, you're tough Michele.
A garbage bag, with a hole cut in it for your head, makes a good, disposable water-proof, pre-race warmup suit. I remember once on a long run, I was only wearing a singlet and got real cold and bonky. I was in the middle of no-where. I stuffed paper, down my shirt for some emergency insulation-it got me home.
The several runs I took recently have given me a lot of confidence to help change my thinking. It is amazing how difficult it can be to change the PERCEPTION of PAIN. The short run I took about a week ago really helped me turn the corner. I just keep thinking about the Edna Millay poem in Sarno's book about the quick mind seeing at every turn what the heart is slow to learn.
My problem is runnning on the tennis court. The stop/start is keeping me stuck. It is hard to feel the chronic pain and go from a lockcd hip to an unlocked one constantly. I'm trying a new mental strategy-maybe it could be termed a mantra. Everytime I feel the
pain, I say to myself: It is TMS-I am not wearing away cartlege-the muscles in my hip region are being mildly deprived of oxygen-I am not doing damage-if I stick with it, the muscles will relax.
I hope, if I keep saying this, which I have consciously subscribed to for years, that my sub-conscious will be forced to believe it too. |
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Bruised shin
