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mayday
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2007 : 12:17:16
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I recently read Dr. Sarno's book. I am hoping that someone can recommend a Dr. near Philadelphia, PA that can treat TMS. Also, I understand it's a good idea to combine with psychotherapy. That referral would also be welcome.
Thanks
Len |
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sensei adam rostocki
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 14:01:53
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Philly is not far from NYC. Why not go to Dr. Sarno himself? It is a short trip by train or car and you will be happy you made it... Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 14:48:13
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Hi Len;
Welcome to Sarnoland! When I first discovered the Mind Body Prescrition in 1998 I looked far and wide for someone I could talk to and get support from through the recovery process. I never did find anyone in my area but read and reread and reread his books and took all the suggestions to heart. My symptoms are mostly gone. Over the years, I've had flareups, scares and new symptoms try to weasel their way in, buy Sarno (via his books, etc.) has come to the rescue everytime. Now, having found this forum awhile back, I feel I have additional info/help close by. I encourage you to do the same, whether or not you find a Doc or Sarno therapist. A psychiatrist I saw a few years ago after my son died didn't believe in Sarnos info, but a family counselor I saw for a while was more open to it and clearly saw the value to me. No matter what, I believe you can see amazing progress reading his books and seeking info here. Either way, best of luck to you! Vicki |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 09:07:15
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The best doctor you will ever consult is yourself.
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Sarno-ize it!
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Karma
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 09:23:57
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Dr. Sarno would disagree with you there Shawn. He states it is a very valuable step to see a TMS doctor to diagnose you with TMS in terms of accepting the diagnosis and having a face to face discussion of what it is and how to treat it.
Now on an ongoing basis, only you can really help yourself in the world of TMS but let Len take the first few steps before shunning him from seeing a TMS doctor. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 09:25:58
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| Can you give me a page number where he would disagree with me? I have read all his books several times, so I like to have the source qoutes where the good doctor disagrees with me. |
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Karma
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 10:18:23
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I've read his books several times as well and he definitely states the value in visting a doctor capable of diagnosing TMS, receiving a proper disorder diagnosis by an "expert", and learning about the disorder from that expert.
I'm not saying your statement is entirely incorrect, but if Len wants to visit a TMS doctor (and there are some in his area) there is no reason for him not to nor should he be discouraged from doing so. It's a great first step in the process and he can take the next steps in personal TMS work from there. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 10:38:10
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I never went to any TMS doctor, nor do I plan to in the future
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Sarno-ize it!
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 11:07:29
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| Just to add some additional thoughts here, I actually did go see the only doc in my area who claimed to be trained to diagnose tms per sarno. my first visit was a disappointment as he didn't ask much personal history and seemed to focus on stress reduction and was surprised that i didn't have that much pain at the usual pressure points. at the time i first saw him, i'd been successfully doing sarno on my own for a year w/great success, but was seeking support for the long haul since i'd had a couple of big flareups that first year. a year or 2 later, i saw him again, thinking that perhaps my first not-so-good impressions were more me than him, but again, felt he was not full on sarno and didn't connect with him at all. after my son died and i went nuts, i tried a third time to seek support from him as i was having so much physical and emotional pain i was desperate for guidance and help. although i think this man is a good person and doctor, i never felt that i was talking to someone who was supporting much of what sarno teaches. with all that said, i believe there are doctors around the country (as in sarno's latest book, the divided mind) who do what i would consider to be sarno's work--and really help people. but just because you see a doctor who claims to, you may get as much (or in my case more) than what some doctors may provide just by reading the books. (my words are not really flowing well this morning, but i hope i'm getting my point across.) i will continue to seek additional support anytime i feel i need it, whether it's driving a few hundred miles to find a doc/therapist to make a connection with (which i've been considering) or whatever. i would keep an open mind but start reading the books and doing the work now. just wanted to add my thoughts to the conversation. I appreciate so much of what i read on this forum. thanks everyone for your contributions. vicki |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 13:27:41
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Good points vnwees!!!
Some docs claim to be TMS practioners but, in my opinion, are not fully convinced yet.
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Sarno-ize it!
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Karma
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 13:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
I never went to any TMS doctor, nor do I plan to in the future
No offense and not trying to be snide but your experience is not the end-all, be-all reference point for TMS treatment. A sweeping statement like the one you made could put someone off from doing something that may be very beneficial to their treatment. I didn't need a doctor to accept the TMS diagnosis either but meeting Sarno and starting Psychotherapy were great experiences that, if anything, have only helped my progress. |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 14:26:40
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Len,
In addition to the doctors listed on the webpage mentioned above, Dr. Schechter maintains another list, which also contains a doctor in the Washington, DC area, if that's not too far from Philadelphia for you.
http://www.mindbodymedicine.com/doctors.html
She (Andrea Segal, MD) also wrote an excellent chapter in The Divided Mind, Dr. Sarno's latest book.
Dr. Sarno does recommend seeing a TMS qualified physician both to rule out other serious problems, such as cancer, and to give the patient more confidence in the TMS diagnosis, so that he/she can accept it. Acceptance of the diagnosis is the key to healing TMS.
Also, I believe that Dr. Sarno only sees patients from NY or NJ.
Best,
Ralph |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 15:44:27
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I have a TMS type personality so, in my world view MY experience IS the end-all, be-all reference point for TMS treatment. Don't you see Karma? I am the center of the universe. All must submit to my opinion and if they don't then I becoming raging, frothing at the mouth angry.....But I repress those feelings as there, well ahhhhhh, a tad embarrassing.
As I said before, you can BS yourself with self-analysis, or you can hire a therapist to do the BS-ing for you. I prefer to save the dough and BS myself.
If you want to learn about how we BS ourselves pick up the book "Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious," by Timothy D. Wilson. You might even doubt your own existence by the time you finish it.
I don't even live in the USA but Dr. Sarno was willing to see me. In exhange for $1000 he would poke me so hard that I would scream, as me a few questions about what is going on in my life, tell me I have TMS and invite me to sit in on his lecture. But he would not take me on as a regular patient unless I was from NY or NJ. Since he is about 83 or 84 I don't blame him.
Oh, by the way, if you want to know if or when I am feeling good you can determine it by the number of postings I do in a day as well as my level of snippiness. If I post a lot and am snippy, then I feel really good. I don't know why that is so, it is just a pattern I have established.
God, I feel good today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sarno-ize it!
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Edited by - shawnsmith on 03/21/2007 16:05:32 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 16:44:09
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If it were a necessity to see a TMS doctor to be "cured" of TMS, most of us would be S.O.L., as there are only a handful of them on the planet and all in the USA as far as I know.
It's always recommended to be examined by a medical doctor to rule-out legitimate conditions--but that doctor does NOT have to be a TMS doctor (and he/she probably never heard of or is interested in TMS).
A TMS doctor telling you that you have TMS would instill a powerful "white-coat" placebo effect (that's a good thing).
I have seen several TMS doctors, one told me get a hip-replacement, one said I had arthritis and upon revisit, said I had arthritis and TMS.
I wish I had never seen either because they instilled a powerful NOCEBO effect (the opposite of the placebo effect). They both studied with the Good Doctor but disagreed with him on aspects of TMS. I felt I had a stronger belief in TMS than either one. I feel I would have been better off not having seen either. Seeing doctors of any persuation can be a two-edeged sword and result in a TMS cunumdrum.
In the end, when all is said and done, it's our body, we have the ultimate responsiblity for it's welfare and should make decisions regarding our mindbody health after a careful consideration of all the facts and evidence we can garner. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 18:19:35
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Bravo Tom. I could not have said it better.....
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Sarno-ize it!
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 21:41:02
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The dilemma to this whole question is, what is a "legitimate condition.? Obviously, if a doc says you're pain is due to a broken bone or a tumor, that is legitimate, and it doesn't take a TMS doc to diagnose it. But it seems that a traditional doc at best will only confirm that something IS wrong, and not that something ISN'T. If the pain is not caused by something like the above, they will then say it's inflammation due to overuse, a strain, etc. (since they can find no obvious reason) - and you're right back at square one, wondering whether you can confidently treat it as TMS. It is a hell of a conundrum.
Weatherman |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 10:01:29
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A lot of valid points raised here and many good personal examples/experiences that reflect both sides of the dilemma. This will surely give Len something to chew on, if he so desires. Yes, there may be sub-par TMS docs out there, as well as TMS docs with differing approaches. I think many TMS docs see Sarno and his work as the foundation of a new field of mindbody medicine but do not follow Sarno's approach as if it were the be-all end-all Bible of holistic medicine. (Not that this is right or wrong, it just IS.) It is a burgeoning field, and many docs who have been inspired by Sarno continue to build on his principles while at the same time honing their techniques to suit their individual methodologies. We can't expect (and do we want?) TMS docs to be Sarno drones. (This reminds me too much of traditional western medicine!) Sarno himself continues to develop TMS theory and practice, often adding to and sometimes contradicting/rewriting his previous claims, based on new studies/discoveries.
But I think, ultimately, the decision of whether or not to see a TMS doc should be based on individual need or desire (i.e. this should be a case-by-case or individual-by-individual basis). Choosing a TMS doc may bring reassurance, but it may also bring more confusion, especially if you have not yet absorbed TMS theories and feel strongly that your physical ailments have an emotional/psychological basis. But seeing a traditional (non-TMS) doc in an effort to rule out physical causes for your pain may also lead you down a winding, unpleasant road to bewilderment, as many docs will do everything they can to "find" a physical cause, because that's what they're trained to do. Some docs with an inflated ego (oh, silly me, I guess that's most of them  ) will not risk the perceived personal blow of failing to produce a solid diagnosis. While they scramble to find the source of your pain, you, in the meantime, may be put through numerous costly and time-consuming tests, given unnecessary prescription drugs, and perhaps recommended "exploratory" surgery.
Many who come to this board have already travelled the seemingly aimless traditional medicine route and are ready for a change. Some need an authority figure (a TMS doc) to tell them the true origin of their pain. Based on the posts here, this is not always what you get. But, to add a notch to the other side, I did see an amazing TMS doc in Texas (of all places, it's beyond me...) who was able to set my mind at ease.
Going it "alone" can be difficult, because we're not used to the concept of healing ourselves from within, and because many still carry doubts that every one of their pains can be linked to TMS. I just think mindbody medicine is all very "new" (not new, but new to us) and it's not easy for everyone to just flip a switch and come to the rapid recovery realizations described in Sarno's books. Some can, others can't.
I think Len got more than he(?) bargained for with his simple question. He asked for a referral, and I hope he can easily find that somewhere in this thread.
best,
ss
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Karma
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 10:08:45
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In my eyes, if Dr Sarno says something is a good thing for the course of TMS treatment than no one should be discouraged from doing so. I mean he is the man that discovered this condition and had written all the books we read and re-read.
There are a few members here who tend to exhibit matter-of-fact-like statements about what is right and what is wrong based on their personal TMS stories along with quotes from the good doctor's book(s) which is mostly helpful, but when your beliefs (which are derived from Sarno's teachings) directly contradict statements Sarno has made then you are no longer helping folks the way we should all strive to.
This of course is all personal opinion and not intended to be snippy as I'm not sure that's the way to help other folks who come here in their time of need :) |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 10:26:52
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"I think Len got more than he(?) bargained for with his simple question. He asked for a referral, and I hope he can easily find that somewhere in this thread." SS
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Good points in your posts SS, is your TX TMS doctor listed on the home page or TarPit's sight? I gave that to Len a while back. Dr. Sarno only takes patients from the Tri-States area, NY,NJ, & Con.
For a list of TMS practitioners check :
http://www.tarpityoga.com/directory.html
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Edited by - tennis tom on 03/22/2007 10:29:44 |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 20:08:38
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Yep, it's Dr. John Sklar in Fort Worth. Worth the trip, though for many it's a LONG ways away...
I've even considered making follow-up appointments just to chat (about TMS), for guidance, encouragment, etc. My initial visit with him was an enlightening one.
ss |
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Referral
