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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2007 : 06:40:03
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| I can't help but wonder about TMS when I read these sad stories. Of course, they have already been diagnosed as "stress related", but I'm not sure that that diagnosis alone would be enough to really help if TMS was at play. Anyway, just wondering if anyone else had wondered about this or knows more. Masako actually lost her voice at one point. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 07:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
I don't wonder about such things. It empedes progress
Huh? How does wondering if theirs are cases of TMS impede progress? It is not only a prominent case study but occurs in a culture in which, I can only guess, Sarno likely isn't a widely known figure (or is there a Japanese TMS board where everyone is participating?).
I would be fascinated to know if any research exists in Japan of which I am not aware. And also what would happen if either *was* officially diagnosed with something equivalent to TMS. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/06/2007 07:05:41 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 07:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Alexis
With the highest respect I can project vie the internet, you continually express your doubts regarding TMS on the board. I persoanlly find it to be counter productive as it really does not serve any objective purpose, especically for those who are serverly suffering, have taken every course of action to alleviate their symptoms via the medical establishment and have now come to believe in the TMS treatmemt strategies to bring about a recovery. Then comes along someone, like your fine self, and says "well, I am not convinced." What purpose does expressing such reservations serve on this message board and how does that help those who are suffering?
Compassion Alexis, compassion....
*************
With regard to the "useful purpose" of expressing doubts (which I was *not* in any way doing in this post) I think it serves a very useful purpose for people like myself...and I have explained this on several occasions. Nonetheless, I will do so again.
When I came to the board the first posts I read were by the most zealous unskeptical proponents of TMS theory. I was very turned off and worried initially that this theory could only work for people with the same mentality as those who sought out faith healers. It was only the existence of skeptical posts that kept me reading.
I'm hear for the others like myself. Those who don't like my posts can ignore them. I ignore most of the posts I find irrelevant or counterproductive to my own cure. You ask me to be compassionate, yet you don't want me here to help the many others I see like myself who are definitely *not* going to be helped by the gung-ho faith filled attitudes. I don't try to stop you posting for your type of people, so I think you 100% faith filled types can just leave me alone and let me post in hopes of helping others like myself.
Look for your own compassion. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/06/2007 07:32:02 |
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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 09:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by alexis
I can't help but wonder about TMS when I read these sad stories. Of course, they have already been diagnosed as "stress related", but I'm not sure that that diagnosis alone would be enough to really help if TMS was at play. Anyway, just wondering if anyone else had wondered about this or knows more. Masako actually lost her voice at one point.
I had not heard about this til your post (yes, I guess I live in a bubble ;), but googled it and found a couple of brief articles. Did this come on suddenly for her? Makes me wonder about all the people who have not heard of TMS who could bypass so much pain and suffering from drugs and medical proceedures if they only knew about it. Had it not been for the internet, I doubt I would have stumbled across Dr Sarno's books, or had I, likely would have scoffed at the TMS idea. But, having run across this forum with people actually apply Dr Sarno's methods with tangible results, that gave me the boost to investigate more. Now I sit here painfree typing this message. Very cool!
Ken |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:40:10
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"Sarno likely isn't a widely known figure (or is there a Japanese TMS board where everyone is participating?).
I would be fascinated to know if any research exists in Japan of which I am not aware. And also what would happen if either *was* officially diagnosed with something equivalent to TMS."
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Oh boy pass the popcorn! If I may respectfully pile on here, ME no doubt having the cognitive abilities and mentality of an unskeptical zealot, not to mention being an idiot and an imbecile, and having sought out numerous faith healers titled MD's, I perceive through the fog of the internet that Shawn just may have a point here.
Alexis, your posts seem to always exhibit a modicum of doubt. This no-doubt is part of your psychic make-up, not just in relation to TMS, and not at all trying to be psychonalytical here, just annecdotaly speaking.
For example, your recent response to Dave, where you agreed with him, (and he did write an excellent post). At the end you inserted your usual doubt, (in the second to the last paragraph, sentence two--or was it the middle paragraph, sentence four?--what-ever).
I just glossed over it and said she is getting more accepting of the Good Doctor's theory. Your acceptance percetages are on the upswing and your doubt word-counts are lessening--TMS progress. I just accept that, that's the way your mind works. TMS acceptance is a dynamic process, the time-table of accptance on a cellular level will vary for everyone like fingerprints and snowflakes.
I have no problem with being skeptical of TMS or anything else for that matter. Could you just be scientificly more specific as to the details of what you are in doubt of rather than just generalamorphous doubt. I can never seem to decipher the gist of where the doubt lies.
Shawn, me or anyone else replying to your posts in a critcal or questioning manner, does not mean you are not wanted here. It's just in the spirit of GOOD science. That's the kind that is argumentative, questioning, down and dirty--the kind that all great leaps forward in humanity's truths emerge from. The scientific/truth cauldron, that great scientists have endured the inquisition for, been thrown in dungeons and burned at the stake for. Good science is messy like good sex or brushing your teeth.
What we do here is relatively tame in comparison but we can dream can't we. One problem here is that the scientists are also the patients, adding multiple demensions to the gray-matter chess-game. Our clinical labs, test-tubes and bunson burners are in our minds.
Back to TMS "doubts". To me it's like when you accept that 2 + 2 = 4, and go on to higher calculations without having to re-invent the mathmatical wheel with every new calculation. I'm just as skeptical as the next village idiot (maybe even more so) but I don't calibrate my calculator everytime I compute what does 2 + 2 equal.
TMS theory makes perfect sense to me, I have a mind, it works in mysterious ways, there's even a relatively new science for it called psycholgy.
The topic of doubt reminds me of a Clint Eastwood spaghetti Western. I believe it was the "Ballad of the Outlaw Josie Wales". There's a scene where the leader of the gang of outlaws, (may have been Henry Fonda), shoots one of his gang to death. Clint asks Henry, "Why did you have to do that?" Henry answers, "He was wearing a belt and suspenders. How can you trust someone who doesn't even trust his own belt?"
Alexis, just because Shawn or I don't agree with everything you post and you don't agree with everything Dr. Sarno theorizes, doesn't mean you're being shown the door. It just means what it means. People probably don't come to boards to agree all the time othewise we wouldn't have disagreements.
I'm curious if you have started reading THE DIVIDED MIND and what you think about the most up-to-date TMS info?
p.s. I did a quick google and found a Japanese blog with a good discussion of TMS going on. The internet has reached Japan. Google is your friend.
Regards and Best Wishes,
tt  |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:42:04
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"Sarno likely isn't a widely known figure (or is there a Japanese TMS board where everyone is participating?).
I would be fascinated to know if any research exists in Japan of which I am not aware. And also what would happen if either *was* officially diagnosed with something equivalent to TMS."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Oh boy pass the popcorn! If I may respectfully pile on here, ME no doubt having the cognitive abilities and mentality of an unskeptical zealot, not to mention being an idiot and an imbecile, and having sought out numerous faith healers titled MD's, I perceive through the fog of the internet that Shawn just may have a point here.
Alexis, your posts seem to always exhibit a modicum of doubt. This no-doubt is part of your psychic make-up, not just in relation to TMS, and not at all trying to be psychonalytical here, just annecdotaly speaking.
For example, your recent response to Dave, where you agreed with him, (and he did write an excellent post). At the end you inserted your usual doubt, (in the second to the last paragraph, sentence two--or was it the middle paragraph, sentence four?--what-ever).
I just glossed over it and said she is getting more accepting of the Good Doctor's theory. Your acceptance percetages are on the upswing and your doubt word-counts are lessening--TMS progress. I just accept that, that's the way your mind works. TMS acceptance is a dynamic process, the time-table of accptance on a cellular level will vary for everyone like fingerprints and snowflakes.
I have no problem with being skeptical of TMS or anything else for that matter. Could you just be scientificly more specific as to the details of what you are in doubt of rather than just general amorphous doubt. I can never seem to decipher the gist of where the doubt lies.
Shawn, me or anyone else replying to your posts in a critcal or questioning manner, does not mean you are not wanted here. It's just in the spirit of GOOD science. That's the kind that is argumentative, questioning, down and dirty--the kind that all great leaps forward in humanity's truths emerge from. The scientific/truth cauldron, that great scientists have endured the inquisition for, been thrown in dungeons and burned at the stake for. Good science is messy like good sex or brushing your teeth.
What we do here is relatively tame in comparison but we can dream can't we. One problem here is that the scientists are also the patients, adding multiple demensions to the gray-matter chess-game. Our clinical labs, test-tubes and bunson burners are in our minds.
Back to TMS "doubts". To me it's like when you accept that 2 + 2 = 4, and go on to higher calculations without having to re-invent the mathmatical wheel with every new calculation. I'm just as skeptical as the next village idiot (maybe even more so) but I don't calibrate my calculator everytime I compute what does 2 + 2 equal.
TMS theory makes perfect sense to me, I have a mind, it works in mysterious ways, there's even a relatively new science for it called psychology.
The topic of doubt reminds me of a Clint Eastwood spaghetti Western. I believe it was the "Ballad of the Outlaw Josie Wales". There's a scene where the leader of the gang of outlaws, (may have been Henry Fonda), shoots one of his gang to death. Clint asks Henry, "Why did you have to do that?" Henry answers, "He was wearing a belt and suspenders. How can you trust someone who doesn't even trust his own belt?"
Alexis, just because Shawn or I don't agree with everything you post and you don't agree with everything Dr. Sarno theorizes, doesn't mean you're being shown the door. It just means what it means. People probably don't come to boards to agree all the time othewise we wouldn't have disagreements.
I'm curious if you have started reading THE DIVIDED MIND and what you think about the most up-to-date TMS info?
p.s. I did a quick google and found a Japanese blog with a good discussion of TMS going on. The internet has reached Japan. Google is your friend.
Regards and Best Wishes,
tt |
Edited by - tennis tom on 03/06/2007 22:25:44 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 17:26:05
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quote:
Originally posted by kelvin
Who is "Michiko and Masako"?
Did I miss something?
Empress Michiko and Princess Masako of Japan. Both have had a number of symptoms I consider interesting from a TMS perspective. I thought Michiko's voice loss interesting with a mind to Sarno's discussion of spasmodic dysphonia, as well as her problems in the last week. Masako's "adjustment disorder" is more well known these days.
Anyway, the most recent incidents regarding Michiko made me wonder about a) how the diagnosis was being handled and b) what would happen if they were formally diagnosed with TMS. I guess I just think that if I were Masako I would be pissed as hell at a lot of things...and probably forced to keep it repressed. Just pondering out loud in case anyone knew any more about this. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/06/2007 17:35:25 |
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 20:24:40
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| I had spasmodic dysphonia the last 3 months of my pregnancy, until my son was about 6 weeks old. No reason ever found. Now I know what it was. Actually, I think that besides being a huge distraction from all the scariness of becoming a parent, it stopped me from working for a while. I am a consultant. No voice, no work. Natures way of making me slow down and get ready for the baby. Then it mysteriously disappeared. Never to return. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 13:31:33
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quote:
Shawn, could you please explain how anything I said in this post was an expression of doubt about TMS?
Ditto. I’m mystified by your post, Shawn. What was there in alexis’ post to imply she was throwing doubt on TMS?
Upon re-reading I wonder if it was the phrase “I can't help but wonder about TMS”? Maybe you read that to mean she was doubting TMS? Actually I think she meant “I can't help but wonder whether these people have TMS” and that presumably they are unaware of TMS.
Hilary N |
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Bliss
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 02:32:03
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I agree with HilaryN. I think Alexis was jumped upon too quickly.
B |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 11:36:02
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I removed my posting as I did not want to have anymore conflict. Sorry to all, especially Alexis.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 11:40:21
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| I think our posts crossed so I removed my comments on your deletions. Thanks for explaining. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 12:01:24
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Thanks, Shawn. I guess I was being a bit unfair picking on you there and not Tom, but I’ve never understood the reason for his animosity towards Alexis.
TT, any chance you could remove one of your duplicate posts at least? It’s bad enough having to skip past one of them, never mind two!
Hilary N |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 12:31:20
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Hi Hillary,
I have no animosity towards Alexis, if you do your research without prejudice towards me, you will see that she started the name, calling i.e., caling me an "imbecile" and an "idiot", her exact words. I felt that changed the level of discussion and I did let her know what I thought of her also, just to keep the record straight. I didn't see any outpouring of sympathy to my hurt feelings a la the recent Chantal thread. H20 was the only one who stuck-up for me and was duly called my pet poodle by who-ever it was.
Hilary, your post displays an animosity towards me I didn't realize you were harboring, but it is difficult for me to keep track of all the people I've antagonized and driven away.
Thanks for bringing to my attention my double post and I'm sorry if I piqued your TMS reservoir with it. I assure you it was totaly accidental. If you would kindly tell me which thread it is under I will quickly expunge it to save some band-width. I pray in the meantime that having to scroll past it doesn't irritate your RSI.
Cheers,
tt |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 14:11:37
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Hi TT,
What I mean is that you seem to think Alexis doesn’t believe in TMS and that’s not my understanding at all. I think she made some comments about Dr Sarno’s writing style, but I don’t think that should be interpreted as not believing in TMS.
I must admit, I’ve avoided reading your exchanges since then. I get bored reading the posts because they’re too long and don’t contain anything of interest to me. (No offense intended: I’m sure some of my long posts must be boring to read, too!)
You may not remember but I did take someone to task for being rude to you without apparent cause some time back.
I don’t have any animosity towards you – I find many of your posts inspiring. But I don’t like seeing people being attacked. (Name-calling isn’t the only way of attacking people.)
The double post is on this thread – and don’t worry about my RSI – no fear of that!
Hilary N |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 21:02:59
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Hi Hillary,
I won't rehash Alexis's and my disagreements about the Good Doctor here because that was between her and me. Actualy, I think Alexis's posts of late are much improved and that she is on the right track. She is much less concerned with the minuetae of the mechanics of TMS theory and is displaying a more genuine personality. I stand by the record in the posts if anyone is interested enough to research but I would not reccommend it unless they are having a very slow Saturday night.
Quoting Hillary:
"I must admit, I’ve avoided reading your exchanges since then. I get bored reading the posts because they’re too long and don’t contain anything of interest to me. (No offense intended: I’m sure some of my long posts must be boring to read, too!)"
No offense taken. I've always found your long posts quite interesting and encourage you the longer the better. I'm sorry my posts have bored you but I assure you I find them quite fascenating and reccommend that you try reading me again. I have revised my content so that they will now be of interest to everyone's attention span.
Thanks for having come to my past defense but unfortunately we live in an age of "what have you done for me lately?" I will repay the favor someday and come to your defense but first you have to piss someone off. |
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chloe
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 13:55:11
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HI Eileen,
I am not really sure what spasmodic dysphonia is - is it voice loss or did you find it painful to talk? I have written in a post about throat and chest pain when talking and I wondered whether you had the same thing or whether you had complete loss of your voice? I have a completely normal voice - just hurts to talk making it hard at work, hard all the time really as you need to be able to talk! I am getting quite worried about mine.
So did yours disppear when things changed - your baby was born etc?
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 03:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
.... it is difficult for me to keep track of all the people I've antagonized and driven away.
Yikes TT! Surely you jest! LOL! Just trying to lighten it up a bit here.
BTW, I have been TOTALLY pain-free for this past week! I am jazzed after 7 mos of daily frustration, chiropractic, PT, stretching exercises, ibuprofen, Ad infinitum. Frankly, all I have done thusfar is read Dr Sarno's latest 3 books. But, I am convinced as close to 100% as I can get, so I guess that is the key for me. When the pain started moving around, that is really what convinced me.
Woodchuck
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Bliss
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 04:35:10
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Congratulations Woodchuck ! You deserve it. 
Bliss |
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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 04:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Bliss
Congratulations Woodchuck ! You deserve it.
Bliss
Thanks Bliss! I am just grateful that I ran across Dr Sarno's books and this help forum. I would still be limping along in pain and confusion I'm sure ;)
Woodchuck |
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Michiko and Masako
