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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2007 : 10:45:01
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Hi,
I am still free from school and not using the computer a lot, so the RSI I suffered for years didn't come back as a conditioned response. I'll have to see how it goes when going back to business again, but as for now it feels like a 100% cure!
BUT
Since monday, (when my depression was pretty much subsided btw) backpain is growing and today it hurts SO MUCH!  I hardly do physical stuff these days so it's pretty $%@1 obvious that this is the symptom imperative. Journaling is so hard. Unlike some of you unfortunate people, I didn't have an awful childhood. I think there's no point in journalling my depressive thoughts from back then, since I already thought about them all day..
Any advice?
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No Hope = No Fear. |
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vnwees
64 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 11:14:59
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Hi;
Journaling can be hard. Sometimes I have to force myself to do it. (sometimes I just blow it off, too). It doesn't always have an immediate effect, tho sometimes it does. What I find is that over time there seems to be a cumulative effect. That practicing somehow opens the door to helpful insights. I don't think it matters if your childhood was good or bad. For me, it's the process that's important and that brings good things over time. Somedays I can only manage a brief writing, like: today I went to work, registered the car, etc...trivial, meaningless stuff. But even that accomplishes 2 things:
1st,that I'm practicing the self discipline of it, which over time, encourages me to do more things to help myself, and
2nd, leads to occasional, important insights that flow out of the pen. it happens because I've set up a system for it to do so.
Not sure if I'm expressing myself well...am suffering from a flare-up myself right now. Just wanted to offer my experience. I don't really understand why the writing can, over time, be so much more helpful than just thinking about things, but so many people have had it be so. Best of luck to you! Hope things improve soon. Vicki |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 10:32:23
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Thank you. I'll try bringing this down to a dayly basis again. Because if it wouldn't suck so much, it would be funny. I started this crusade to rid my RSI, and I was a lot better for two months. Now I have back pain, foot pain, even more frequent colds and periods of depression. Also the RSI is coming back in my left arm. As with all crusades, there should be an ending. Sarno speaks of it, and many RSI patients I know who accepted TMS, got cured by pure knowledge.
We would all benefit from research at this subject, because I'm sure it's nailable, but it's more complicated than 'we' are used to. I sure wish we could MRI our brain and have a computer calculate a pattern of stuff to do specifically for our problem.
It's not that science is too stupid. We know exactly how certain drugs work. We can open up a lab rat and see the alcohol blocking neuroreceivers of certain parts of the brain. We know that THC from cannabis mimics neurotransmitters we already have, but fails to be broken down. We know where serotonine is secreted and depressed people show a shortage. We know where 'reward' feeling and task feeling comes from, to the point where we now can remote-controll a mouse!!
But when we try to nail down TMS, we have a problem. Ignoring the fact that it's more complicated and requires more research, the major problem is that it has to do with our primal conscious (ID), our current conscious (Self) and the stupid ass ucs desicionmaker proccesses in between. Now, the whole brain of the labrat is even simpler than our ID alone. They don't suffer the issues that unfortunate intelligence brings.
I'm sure it can be understood. Question is when. My guess is we're long dead by then. Meanwhile, we have to find our own truth in the jungle of TMS that's still full of surprises and seemingly randomness.
I was so positive a few days ago about returning to school. All I can think of is, why now? Work starts on monday. All this crap tumbling over each other. It's not gaining me anything.
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No Hope = No Fear. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 18:22:00
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"But when we try to nail down TMS, we have a problem. Ignoring the fact that it's more complicated and requires more research, the major problem is that it has to do with our primal conscious (ID), our current conscious (Self) and the stupid ass ucs desicionmaker proccesses in between. Now, the whole brain of the labrat is even simpler than our ID alone. They don't suffer the issues that unfortunate intelligence brings."
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Redsandro,
I beg to differ, the beauty of TMS is it's share simplicity. If your pain is of psychosomatic origin, shift your thoughts to the emotional/psychological. If your problems are too deeply rooted and you can't do it on your own, seek help from a professional who can do insight based psycho-threrapy and not cognitive.
I sense that all this talk of late of the lack of scientific evidence for TMS is rubbing off on you. Your language in this last post revolves around clinical terms such as lab rats, serotonin, research, MRI'ing our brains, computer calculated patterns, drugs, alcohol blocking neuroceptoers, etc, etc, etc.
You are still looking for a magic bullet because TMS is "too complicated". I'm afrid you have fallen off the TMS path. No one is going to come up with a magic-bullet or a roll-on for curing TMS. That must come from inside of us. The "cure" for TMS is not going to ever come out of a test-tube.
Good Luck,
tt
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 19:38:00
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Hi Tom,
Thank you for your view on the subject.
I do understand your point about the simplicity of the solution. As a matter of fact, I do consider looking for psychological help if I don't participate in one more little personal victory whithin a timespan that I find acceptable. However, I do not at all see the analogue between the simple knowing of what to do and the simplicity of the real internal process of TMS.
I know there's more to TMS than just 'you know the story is true because you've seen realizing the truth made the expected outcome possible,' and seeing my posts going into some direction is to be expected from one who's trying to figure this out every day, whether you (and I mean everyone except me) see my drift as a falling away from the path or as trying to complete my circle where the seemingly irrational raise and fall of TMS becomes clear to the point of reason, because I think deeper understanding would benefit us all and I think I'm not the only one who'd like that.
Your recent answers to multiple more science oriented topics almost taste like topping the modest knowledge about the subject that's documented at the moment is absolutely unnessesary, since the people who are really strong about it like yourself seem to do just fine. Well, I beg to differ. If I could give a working example I would be rich, but I wouldn't rule out that some day a personal pattern of this weird Emotion Free Training like touches can be calculated that is your personally optimized routine to decondition certain pain responses, and maybe even a report about what you're repressing, sparing you months and months trying to figure out what can hardly be figured out.
I agree a certain amount of fantasy is introduced in this picture, but the idea that the complexity of TMS can be figured out, even scientifically, is - for me - factlike real. E = MC˛ is simplicity. Not TMS. I'd like that though.
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No Hope = No Fear. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 21:01:27
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Hi Redsandro, I like your expression of "trying to complete the circle". That is exactly what it seemed to me you were trying to do. I agree that we'll probably be long dead before understanding in the kind of terms you want. And possibly, it may never be quite a satisfying enough answer. It's a bit to get over knowing that you can't fill in all the nooks and crannies (and that may be an understatement). But a weird little part of me has actually enjoyed the experience of having to accept that I can't have the information I feel I need on this subject. I don't know how it plays in here with regard to TMS, but somehow I think it is a growth experience.
Yes, this psychology and biology business is complex science. Physics is simple. I find the complex sciences fascinating, but the simple sciences can be so much more satisfying and yet can offer a false sense of how easy answers should be. I often see people who are immersed on a daily basis in physics or chemistry holding strangely
simplistic ideas about biology, psychology or economics because they have been led to believe that answers are so easy--the set of variables so small. In the more complex world the answers are much, much harder to come by. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 23:44:21
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quote:
Yes, this psychology and biology business is complex science. Physics is simple. I find the complex sciences fascinating, but the simple sciences can be so much more satisfying and yet can offer a false sense of how easy answers should be. I often see people who are immersed on a daily basis in physics or chemistry holding strangely
simplistic ideas about biology, psychology or economics because they have been led to believe that answers are so easy--the set of variables so small. In the more complex world the answers are much, much harder to come by.
Yes!
The practice for healing may be complex, but living systems are not. Many biologists/psychologists seem to have "physics envy" - wanting it all to fit a linear equation when in fact it's non-linear. The math describing what makes us tick is impossible to do without a computer.
And I, too, continually research an intellectual / cognitive / scientific understanding of the whole thing. Right now I'm reading a new book about neuroplasticity which summarizes the evidence that you can change not only your mind but your BRAIN by how you direct your attention consciously. I'll tell more details if anyone interested.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 04:44:49
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Alexis, you say it like it is. All I can say is that I agree it's a growth experience. The difference is that I don't enjoy the fact that it's not all clear to begin with. That might be because of all the **** I've unvolunteerly had to pull myself trough whithout comprehending why and always waiting how it turns out, much of it even before I was 18. I'm so tired of accepting some vague idea, having to invest energy and waiting how it turns out.
Wavy Soul, sounds like an interesting book. Have you experienced accomplishing anything with the book, or is it just knowledge?
I actually dislike reading so I have to choose my books carefully. :P
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 09:27:16
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| Hi Redsandro, To be honest, if I had a choice between having the missing info and not having it, I'd take the information in a flash. That's why it's only the "weird little part of me" that has enjoyed the lack of information experience. But I still think I've grown from having to deal with that, even if it was only a little part of me that has thus far reaped any pleasure out of the experience. It may be that the annoyance now will make me a better and happier person later. Or I could get run over by a bus in a few minutes. Ah well, not sure which. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2007 : 10:55:43
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#%$*@! Opera just crashed, bye bye reply! 
Summary:
I understand.
However, there's no choice and that pisses me off. There is never a choice. But that's the obvious part.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 07:07:45
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Seriously, I'm confused with terms, but I'm concidering concidering psychological therapy. Now when we speak of that, are we talking about psychologists or psychiatrists? The difference is probably clear, but not for me.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 07:49:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
Seriously, I'm confused with terms, but I'm concidering concidering psychological therapy. Now when we speak of that, are we talking about psychologists or psychiatrists? The difference is probably clear, but not for me.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul.
When we speak of what? I'm not sure I understand the question. Thanks. -Alexis |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 08:53:57
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Anyone who practices insight-based psychotherapy, whether psychologist, psychiatrist, or therapist, and can be accepting of TMS, is an appropriate psychological "helper". The terms (at least in the US) normally refer to the degrees they have (MD, PhD/PsyD, MFT), not the practice they do. But usually psychiatrists mostly hand out drugs instead of doing therapy.
RS, you asked, why now, when you are about to go back to school/work. The reason is SIMPLE :-) -- that school and work are enraging to the child self.
There's lots we don't understand (about TMS and much else). But I get the sense that by thinking about all of what you don't know now, when you are not yet even recovered, you're just trying to avoid the actual TMS work you need to do. Think about that other stuff later.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by alexis
When we speak of what? I'm not sure I understand the question. Thanks. -Alexis
Psychological therapy. But Armchair answered the question. :)
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Anyone who practices insight-based psychotherapy, whether psychologist, psychiatrist, or therapist, and can be accepting of TMS, is an appropriate psychological "helper". The terms (at least in the US) normally refer to the degrees they have (MD, PhD/PsyD, MFT), not the practice they do. But usually psychiatrists mostly hand out drugs instead of doing therapy.
I think it's the same here, but therapist can be anything. Don't want drugs, so the -ologist looks like the proper person, although higher degrees sound more fun.
quote:
But I get the sense that by thinking about all of what you don't know now, when you are not yet even recovered, you're just trying to avoid the actual TMS work you need to do. Think about that other stuff later.
I set aside time to think and/or journal and talk to the brain daily, and I grow tired of the deconditioning exercises. I could stop my other activities and journal all day long, but even now I don't concider me avoiding the TMS work. When a certain amount of effort doesn't pay off, I don't really see a problem in looking for a headworker.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 18:13:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
[quote]Right now I'm reading a new book about neuroplasticity which summarizes the evidence that you can change not only your mind but your BRAIN by how you direct your attention consciously. I'll tell more details if anyone interested.
Wavy Soul, What is the book you are reading? Thanks. -Alexis |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 18:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
I think it's the same here, but therapist can be anything. Don't want drugs, so the -ologist looks like the proper person, although higher degrees sound more fun.
Just as a piece of trivia, in the US I think a PhD in psychology will normally have more years of post secondary education than an MD. If you aren't counting residencies. Then again, you could always see a mudfud (MD/PhD) just to hit all the bases. :) |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2007 : 10:53:06
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lol, this time I do not understand you :P
Anyway my remark about doing the work was not entirely fair since I intensified journalling only recently, because of the advice. Nontheless I stick to my point. :)
What's a mudfud?
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2007 : 11:24:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
What's a mudfud?
Just a pronunciation of the letters "MD/Phd". It's usually used as a joke term for those poor over-educated souls. :) |
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Here comes the backpain
