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seven
USA
35 Posts |
 Posted - 12/26/2006 : 07:14:25
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Would someone please answer this question for me?
I read that the TMS patient doesnt need to know what the repressed anger or rage is about or where it came from, but just needs to acknowledge that the anger/rage is responcible for the pain. True or false?
Thank you,
Jimmy |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 07:38:52
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 07:58:44
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To be sure I understand correctly, it is not necessary to go back in your life and look for situations that may be responsible for ones repressed anger/rage/emotions? The solution lies in just acknowledging this is the cause and experiencing the anger/rage or other emotion as they present themselves to the conscious mind?
Any other advise?
Thanks,
Jimmy |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 08:56:39
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"The solution lies in just acknowledging this is the cause and experiencing the anger/rage or other emotion as they present themselves to the conscious mind?"
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Seven, that's a different question. The first answer was free, the second will cost you double.
Dr. Sarno says that acknowledging TMS theory, that unconscious repressed anger causes psychosomatic pain can be enough to initiate a "cure".
Experiencing the emotions, as they occur, would be useful to keep the unconscious reservoir of repressed rage from overflowing the barrier into the conscious, causing psychosomatic/TMS pain.
But, it is the repressed rage in the unconscious, that we are not aware of, that is causing the pain--go figure.
If I got any of that wrong, anyone out there, please feel free to chime in, after you clean up the Christmas wrappings. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/26/2006 08:59:42 |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 09:08:21
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Thank you for the reply TT.
If I *experience the anger* as I become aware of it in my daily life, but still have pain, then do I need to look back into my past and try to find what anger has accumulated? I read Sarno's book a week ago and 40% - 50% of my pain is gone
Thanks again,
Jimmy |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 11:03:51
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Your welcome 7,
40-50% in a week, that's pretty darn good. A lot of people would kill for that. It sounds like your pain was coming from TMS.
As to if your pain persists, that depends on so many variables of your psyche that only a fool would specualte on that on a message board. A good shrink might take 6 months of twice weekly sessions to acquaint themselves with the intricasies of your gray matter.
Did you have extreme trauma like sexual abuse that you have repressed? Is your now life full of TMS producing pressures at work, at home, in your relationships that keep the TMS anger reservoir at the tipping point? No way I could speculate on that over a Dell Laptop.
It sounds like you are doing pretty good. Keep with the books, videos and audios. If your pain persists, then ask again.
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 13:05:56
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Hi TT,
Yes, I had severe physical and emotional child abuse from my mom and dad. I am almost 63 years old and have been a practicing alcoholic for the last 45 years. Mom died 3 years ago and dad is 92 now. He and she did to me what Saddam Hussein did to his people.....terrorized them!!!! I never had a conversation with my father until I was about 25. They would beat me and my sisters would stand there and cry. I was forced to hold my arms and hands at my side as my mom beat me. That is almost impossible to do but it was required of me!
I have been sober now for about a year and things are going pretty good except this pain started about 2 years ago. I have a very bad temper and explode easily. I developed a heart condition and can never drink again.
So, yes, I think my reservoir is probably full. Also I am a perfectionist with very low self-esteem and self-worth, have been married 7 times.
Thanks again for the help!!
Jimmy |
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ndb
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 15:09:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Randolph
I'm still mulling over the answers to Jimmy's first question regarding healing comes from "acknowledging that the anger is responsible for the pain." This sounds suspiciously like: you are saved after you believe Jesus is your Saviour. Hopefully, this is not the idea is it ... that changing my belief from - it is a herniated disc causing my pain, therefore I must do PT, baby my back, etc. - to .... it my unconscious brain processes causing my pain, therefore all I have to do is remember that to heal. Tell me I've got it all mixed up ... and I haven't blundered onto another belief scheme.
The point is that acknowleding that the underlying cause is anger takes away the need for the mind to deceive/distract us with physical pain.
Sarno's premise is that repressed emotions that we think are too painful to feel/experience are always trying to escape into consciousness. To prevent this from happening, physical pain is created as a *distraction*. Once you are onto this deception, no purpose is served by further physical pain.
The reason people on the board stress believing in this so much is that if there is any place in your mind which still believes that the pain is due to physical abnormality, your mind will keep using this as a way to distract you from your emotions.
So the answer to your question is that 'acknowledging' refers to believing that the pain is not from structural causes. This occurs over a period of time. For some people, it is partly from seeing a reduction in their pain once they let themselves possibly think that the pain is harmless. For others, it comes through repeatedly drumming it into your head by reading the books or writing a journal.
Your other question...seeing repressed emotions: I think this means to let yourself *feel* emotions that you generally supress. Many times it is not possible to access the emotions, since they are subconscious (and your mind is actively trying to supress them). But now, you can prevent further such emotions from being supressed and causing your reservoir of anger and rage to build up. For example, for me, I'm in a profession (maths) where I am constantly fretting about whether I'm as smart as other people, whether I'm capable of being creative and producing good maths or not. Previously, I used to try to tell myself 'oh, don't worry, you're good too'. Now I just let myself feel the horrible and painful feelings of inferiority that I *really have* when such thoughts arise.
ndb |
Edited by - ndb on 12/26/2006 15:11:41 |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 15:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by seven
Hi TT,
Yes, I had severe physical and emotional child abuse from my mom and dad. I am almost 63 years old and have been a practicing alcoholic for the last 45 years. Mom died 3 years ago and dad is 92 now. He and she did to me what Saddam Hussein did to his people.....terrorized them!!!! I never had a conversation with my father until I was about 25. They would beat me and my sisters would stand there and cry. I was forced to hold my arms and hands at my side as my mom beat me. That is almost impossible to do but it was required of me!
Jimmy
Sounds like you have identified the source of your rage very well. Now as one of your parents has died and the other very old that rage is working its way to the surface. Have you worked on releasing that rage? Some pillow pounding and screaming out your rage is in order. If you haven't done this it may help you more than you might think. (Warning: You may need to check that this is ok health wise to do as it can definitely be taxing on the body to express rage) |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 16:24:19
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Hello Micah and all,
I have tried to feel the anger and rage about what they did to me. I have laid in bed twice this week and allowed myself to feel the rage, shame and pain
I would never ever do it, but there is a part of me that would like to go to my 92 year old dad and tell him how much he contributed to f***ing up my life and causing me a lot of pain. I know I allowed it to continue on inside me after I left home at age 17. That was one heck of a lot to carry around. I knew in my own mind I was no good or they would not have singled me about of us 5 kids to abuse the most. This is an example of the garbage that goes on in my head. I did tell my mom I forgave her as she told me a year before she died she thought I could never forgive her. She was ill and knew she was dying.
I am not sure what to do next. Most of the pain has left my back but moved to my ankles. There is noting wrong with my ankles as I had them X-rayed.
Jimmy
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 21:53:58
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Jimmy- Wow that is an aweful lot of pain you have carried inside yourself for so long. You've got a lot of rage to work through wrt both parents and this is likely to take quite a while to work through to your psyche's satisfaction. I know you know that what they did was totally evil and you need to grieve what happened to you. I know you said you forgave your mom and she is gone now but don't let that get in your way of expressing the rage towards her. The child inside needs to express it. Be patient with yourself and your feelings. They may not come immediately but if you persist and do the work they will come and you will heal the wound over time.
You may want to read "Facing the Fire" by John Lee. He talks in detail about his healing and he suffered from blatant traumatic abuse as well.
The fact that your symptoms are moving around is a good thing and you are making progress. |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 07:10:45
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Hello Micah,
I can't tell you how much your kind response means to me. I will buy the book if I can find it or I will order it if I cant locate a copy today.
I realize now from reading here that I can love my mom and dad but still experence the anger and rage I have because of them.
Thanks again Micah for reaching out to me.
Jimmy |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 11:26:55
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Randolph,
I am certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed but I believe the answer is "YES" to your question (above) about "believing" in Jesus as your Saviour compared to believing TMP as your solution to your pain. But there are two types of believing. Let me illustrate below.
First,I believe your question was a put down to Christianity but the answer is still YES. Let me give you an example.
1) Believing Jesus is the Saviour won't save you.
2) Believing(trusting) Jesus is YOUR Saviour will.
(His death, burial, resurrection)
1) Believing TMS is a solution for back pain won't save you
1) Believing(trusting) TMS is the solution for YOUR back pain will save you.
I know this is a secular message board and I know that. I never brought up the subject of Jesus, Randolph did, but I am defending Him.
Jimmy |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 20:32:29
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"I know this is a secular message board and I know that. I never brought up the subject of Jesus, Randolph did, but I am defending Him."
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Secular, schmecular, the reason we have TMS is because we are good at repressing what we feel. The only one who has his finger on the button here is Dave and he let's a lot of stuff slide. Say whatever you feel and feel whatever you say. There's nothing wrong with honest debate, let it all hang-out.
Just my 2cents, adjusted for inflation that will be $20 please.
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 06:44:03
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Jimmy, the stuff you went through when you was little had major effect on your personality. I think it's not fair to say "I allowed it to continue on inside me after I left home at age 17." People's ways of dealing with these kinds of things are so much tainted by parental abuse and other bad experiences during childhood. Don't blame yourself.
About the issue where believing TMS is compared to believing in God or some religious variant,quote:
Originally posted by Randolph
healing comes from "acknowledging that the anger is responsible for the pain." This sounds suspiciously like: you are saved after you believe Jesus is your Saviour.
which I see come up often on the board and around me, where people dislike the latter and therefore repudiate the first, should become clear when taking the 'leap of understanding.'
quote:
Originally posted by ndb
if there is any place in your mind which still believes that the pain is due to physical abnormality, your mind will keep using this as a way to distract you from your emotions.
It's that simple, and I - (stretching hands foreward in defensive way) - really think - (stretching hands foreward in defensive way) - the above comparison made by seven does not make sense.
Assuming the Good Doctor is right - which is hard for some religious people around me who don't like to believe in evolution - our ID (Freud) or Child (Sarno) or primitive consciousness (evolution) which is now repressed/overruled partially by our current 'newer' brainsections referred to for your convenience as Ego (Freud) or Parent (Sarno) accumulates a lot of rage, and therefore it does it's trick which I don't have to explain for we all read the books.
This cannot be proven by hard science, not untill we got computers strong enough to simulate a persons brain. That's why none of the medical society buys this. That's why, for now, it is impossible to give you prove other than the word of people who experienced it. Once you really _know_ how it works (some people would say believe that it works) so deeply that your Ego/Parent knows that you know what's going on, it starts to give up the trick. Then you'll experience the next level of difficulties like conditioning and 'the mind is slow to learn,' but once your symptoms subside, you've created your own proof that you needed to understand that this is simply how it is.
There's the difference. It's all in YOUR head (the cause), all you, and you can control your brain by understanding and commitment. Once you experience it works, the circle is complete and you KNOW it's all rationally explainable. Your Saviour is still an external factor who has nothing to do with this, and believing in him is still a leap of faith, not a leap of understanding. He may be good for lots of things, but not for TMS. That's all you, you personal. The Good Doctor, who we say is right on this forum, has also demonstrated TMS is curable while leaving all religious faith and the Saviour out of it.
I hope I've put this in a way both non-religious and religious people can live with.
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No Hope = No Fear. |
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cheeryquery
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 07:22:52
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I'm inclined to agree with Red. Religious belief is entirely different from noticing that Sarno's TMS theory works. It's a matter of spirit or body. Some people have a sense of spirit and others don't. We ALL know we have a body. You don't have to "believe" in your body to know it's there. Example: "Leg? Yup, got one". But if my leg falls off, "Oops, no leg". When the pain stops because you tell it to (or whatever Sarno technique) that's "Wow, no pain". Not at all the same as believing in a deity.
I think the problem people have in "believing" Sarno is that we hate the idea of having unconscious, narcissistic rage we are desperate to repress. We want to believe we are better than that and finding out we are not is an unwelcome surprise. In some cases, we'd rather have the pain. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2006 : 00:04:50
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Seven, Welcome here.
I just wanted to add to the excellent comments that you might want to try journalling as a VERY effective technique to move the repressed emotions through and out. If you do a search on journalling on this forum there are very good threads about it.
For example, you could write a pissy letter to your dad, and not send it. Or you could write it every day for a month, and not send them. It's extraordinary how well this seems to work. If you just lie around trying to 'feel" stuff it can sometimes feel overwhelming. But journalling has a more active component.
Best of luck.
x
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2006 : 00:20:03
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"We ALL know we have a body. You don't have to "believe" in your body to know it's there. Example: "Leg? Yup, got one". But if my leg falls off, "Oops, no leg".
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That reminded me of another interesting mindbody phenomenon, that proves the mind has a mind of it's own. That would be the occurence of phantom pain, where a limb is lost but the mind still feels sensations as if it were still there. |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2006 : 06:17:57
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Hi Wavy Soul,
Thank you for that advise. I am going to start journaling. I also ordered the book Facing the Fire that was recommended.
I don't know if it is normal, but since I started taking times to *experience* these repressed emotions, I just exploded on my wife yesterday. It even shocked me. I thought, where in the world did that come from? She exploded back, and then we later apologized to each other, but I did allow myself to feel the rage I had for her immediately after the incident. Now to learn to experience it without expressing it in an unacceptable way is the challenge.
The pain is moving around my body now. Pain in my ankles, then moves to my pelvis, then over to my hips. I am a lot better and feel better emotionally too so I am positive this is TMS for me.
Thanks for all the advise,
Jimmy |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2006 : 02:39:22
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Hi Seven,
I had some huge rows with my husband and also some bad spells of depression, which I am sure were to do with the recovery process.
I've been married 26 years so though arguments were common, explosive anger was not. Anyway I seem to be through that phase thank goodness, it lasted maybe 6 months. I seem to be less of a "goodist" now which means, in my case, less likely to agree with someone to make them like me, more of a realist and more honest, which in fact makes for better friendships than the way I was before (including marriage). So hang on in there, keep journalling etc.
Anne |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2006 : 07:55:28
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Scottydog,
Thank you for the encouragement! Good to know I am not the only one experiencing this. My wife is currently trying to quit smoking, not trying to shift the blame but that might be part of the problem. LOL!
I went back to work yesterday after being off for a week and by the end of the day all my pain came back but I woke up this morning with reduced pain. I am off work for the next 3 days so that might be part of it. More relaxed on the weekends it seems.
I find myself unconsciously *clenching* my muscles in the areas where I experience pain. I try to consciously *relax* my muscles in that area which seems to help but I can cant keep it up as I have to get about my daily duties and forget to try and relax those areas.
Jimmy |
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Identifying the anger?
