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Jeff
USA
68 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2006 : 06:16:39
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I know this may be a novice question, but this is something that I have puzzled about. How can you have TMS and hypertension at the same time? My understanding of hypertension is that your heart is pushing too hard to get blood through your veins. Shouldn't that offset the ischemic effects of TMS? And the medications they give for high blood pressure often have the effect of relaxing the blood vessels so that blood moves through them more easily. Again, shouldn't this offset TMS? I ask this because I have started working with the Brady six-weeks method, saw some small improvement initially, but then it all washed away yesterday when I had a high-pressure day that saw my blood pressure rise significantly. Thanks.
Jeff |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 07:02:51
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Hi Jeff,
You may want to check out chapter five in Sarno's newest book, The Divided Mind. This chapter, "Hypertension and the Mindbody Connection: A New Paradigm," is written by one of Sarno's colleagues, Dr. Samuel Mann. The chapter also cites Mann's own book, "Healing Hypertension: A Revolutionary New Approach (1999).
Hope this helps!
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Edited by - sonora sky on 10/05/2006 07:03:19 |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 10:44:26
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Hi Jeff
You say you had a high pressure day: do you mean that your blood pressure goes up at times and then returns to normal; or have you been diagnosed with hypertension and take medication for it?
I'm sure you know this, but having your blood pressure go up and down is normal.
When I was first diagnosed with hypertension - around fifteen years ago - I obsessed with checking my blood pressure. I imagined I was going to keel over with a stroke on a daily basis. I bought a monitor and checked morning, noon and night. I realise now that my reaction to the diagnosis was a TMS equivalent.
Whether the hypertension itself is a TMS equivalent, I don't know and I'm not going to find out because I'm not taking the chance. My family history would suggest otherwise. The medication I take is very effective and I get no noticeable side effects. Blood pressure meds have a very good track record.
I made the decision to leave my hypertension out of the TMS loop. I read the chapter in 'The Divided Mind' with interest, but for me, it would be just too risky to stop the meds.
If you are taking medication, I'd go easy on the self-checking. It will only worry you unnecessarily.
Anne
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Jeff
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 11:06:27
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| Thanks, Anne. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure a while back, and I have been taking (and continue to take) certain meds to control it. Even with the meds, my BP can go up and down during any particular day, as you note. I guess my question stemmed from some curiosity about the ischemia theory that people have put forward as the physiological way in which the Subconscious inflicts pain on TMS sufferers. I take meds for BP that are designed to ease the flow of blood throughout the body (thereby requiring my heart to work less hard). I would think that those meds should counteract any ischemic effect of TMS. Also, one of my meds gives me a little bit of edema (swelling) in my ankles from time to time, yet my ankles still hurt exactly the same way they do when my ankles are not swollen. How could ischemia be the culprit there? TMS makes so much sense to me on so many levels (I had a series of Aha moments when I read the Sarno and Brady books), but I have to say that I think the ischemia theory may be something of a placeholder as to the "how" of TMS until someone comes up with a new approach. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 11:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff
TMS makes so much sense to me on so many levels (I had a series of Aha moments when I read the Sarno and Brady books), but I have to say that I think the ischemia theory may be something of a placeholder as to the "how" of TMS until someone comes up with a new approach.
Sarno says the physical methods by which TMS does its tricks on us is of NO significance. Anywhere the body has bloodflow, capillaries, where poplyneuropeptides can travel, which is just about everywhere, can become a TMS focus--a playfield for the gremlin.
Once the "structural method" of the "current" epedemic is found out, the unconscious will just come up with a new TMS symptom to vex us with unless we learn the over-all theory of how the game is played.
TMS is the volume control for the pain. One can have a real chronic pain site due to a REAL injury that is subceptible to a roller-coaster of pain depending on the level of our TMS tension reservoir. Or it can be hysterical, psychogenic or psychosomatic pain with no "real" injury site. In those cases the gremlin (the unconscious) chooses a pain site for us.
If you are waiting for someone to come up with a "new approach", that is tantamount to handing over the reins of your healing to a third party who may or may not have your best interest at heart, (or may even be the gremlin in desguise).
A "new approach", sounds to me, like a "silver-bullet", a pharma or a new-age, roll-around on the floor, placebo or voo-doo fix. The TMS "cure" is internal or maybe with the help of a caring guide or therapist. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 20:03:29
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Jeff,
I think high or normal blood pressure is irrelevant to the kind of ischemia Sarno is talking about. I think Sarno is theorizing that the brain can instantaneously block the local blood flow in a particular region. In a handful of capillaries. It doesn't take much restriction at all to do the trick, causing pain, numbness, tingling, or whatever. So, you might have normal blood flow everywhere except for a particular region; the neck, the leg, the lower back. Somewhere in The Mindbody RX, I think Sarno notes a European study that showed this kind of ischemia can actually occur.
On the other hand, as Sarno also says in MB Rx (and TT mentioned also), the mechanism of action does not really matter. The important thing is that SOMETHING is happening. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2006 : 07:03:35
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When I first took prescribed meds for hypertension I lived in fear all the time. Every little sensation and twinge was noted and magnified by my TMS personality. Thank goodness there was no internet to trawl at the time.
Interestingly, Dr Sarno believes, "Emotional factors are a driving force in only a minority of people with hypertension." (page 208 - 'The Divided Mind'). I know that is not what you mean when you describe the ishaemic theory and the possibility that that may be what causes pain, but hypertension is just so dangerous if left untreated.
I focus on the successes the medication and professional monitoring have brought. My grandmother died at sixty of a stroke after years of raised blood pressure. The modern meds came in just too late for her. My mother, on the other hand, is still going strong in her eighties - she takes her meds, but still often has raised blood pressure. However, the meds seem to have done their job well and protected her. Cases like these are ten a penny in my part of the world (Scotland), where hypertension is very common, but deaths and serious illness from hypertensive diseases are falling dramatically in those who are treated effectively and are willing to modify their eating habits, drink little or no alcohol and don't smoke.
It can take quite a while to get the drug therapy right, Jeff. I got swollen ankles from a drug called 'Amlodopine' (probably has another name in the US). I also began to lose potassium when taking diuretics - all that chopping and changing of drugs let my TMS gremlin well and truly out of its box to dance on the lid!
However, now I take one called 'Ramipril', an ACE medication and it's backed up with a small dose of a Beta Blocker. Together, they keep my blood pressure steady and pretty low, in fact.
I don't think it matters too much what goes on physiologically in TMS pain. All I know is my brain made it happen and it was my brain that made it go away again.
The ishaemic theory does make one think, though. If it is correct then there it surely should counteract TMS pain.
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2006 : 21:07:29
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Hi Jeff,
Tom mentioned neuropeptides, and that seems to be the idea that another TMS doctor by the name of Nancy Selfridge considers the probable source of pain for many people. Her book is called "Freedom From Fibromyalgia" but I think that people who have other types of pain would still get a lot out of the book. Dr. Sarno wrote the foreword to her book, so I'd think that means he's open to other theories as to the exact mechanism (or mechanisms) that the mind can use to cause pain and other sx.
I haven't yet read the Brady book, but it's next on my list. I did read "The Divided Mind," and I was initially kind of torn between feeling that it really fit my experience and questioning just how this mechanism works. But I have come to a point where I feel that I don't need to understand the exact mechanism and which theory is going to be right. What I need to know is that people are overcoming their pain and equivalent sx. This forum has been a big help to me in developing confidence in the idea that my brain does somehow cause my sx.
I'd encourage you to read another one of the books on TMS, if you haven't already. What I liked about TDM was that it wasn't just written by Dr. Sarno, but included chapters by other doctors. It seemed to me that they weren't all saying exactly the same things, which made me feel that all of these doctors are probably open to the possibility that their current thinking on the cause may need to be adjusted a bit someday.
Best wishes,
Corey |
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TMS and Hypertension
