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Inferno
15 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2006 : 18:36:17
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Hi all,
I'm a strong believer of TMS and have recovered from symptoms of TMS over the years. However, my latest pain in my right knee has been very difficult to get rid of. I have had chronic pain in this knee for about 5 months, which varies in intensity. I've had a hard time identifying a structural cause for the pain, since I have not been aware of any "injury" that I might have sustained (only trigger would be working out in the gym). At first I seemed to have just pain, but after a couple of months I started developing this most annoying "snapping" or "cracking", when I move my knee in a certain direction. I can actually feel the "snap" in my knee, although it is not particularly painful when it happens. I have been concerned that this could be a tendon or cartilage, or some other junk in my knee that is causing this. I'm finding that this annoying snapping has been a huge detriment to my adhering to the TMS principals, as it tends to reinforce a physical aspect in my mind, rather than an emotional one.
I guess my question to all the wonderful posters would be if anyone has had snapping, cracking, or popping as a joint symptom when experiencing TMS? If so, have they disappeared when the TMS/pain goes away? Lastly, what would be a logical explaination as to why this happens if it is TMS? Is it possible that TMS can "alter" the muscles, nerves, tendons, in such a way to cause this uncomfortable snapping. I would love to challenge the pain more, but am afraid of doing further damage or aggravating some structure in my knee.
Thanks so much for any advice,
Inferno |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 19:39:36
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Hi Inferno,
I have the crackling in my knee and have had previous injuries there..However, when the injury takes months instead of days or weeks to heal that is indicative of TMS and an emotional causation...I have had knee TMS and I currently and having severe neck TMS...I have cracking in my neck as well..It is just the bones passing gas so to speak..and i am told it is harmless..
Take care,
Karen |
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Inferno
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 20:49:35
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Thanks Kevin, yes I'm aware that the Meniscus can develope a "buckethandle" tear and actually cause the knee joint to lock up. I suppose this could have happened to me. However, Sarno indicates and believes that meniscus tears do not cause pain.
Singer, thanks for the info on your cracking. I suppose it give me some hope that nothing is serious.
Any other insight out there??
Thanks,
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 21:15:23
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My knees have been cracking and poppong when I bend down or squat, they have done that every since I was like 13. I am now 29, they have never hurt, so I would say just like Sarno says cracking in the back has NO relevance to injury. There is no way in the world I'm getting mine checked out, they will just give me some kind of diagnosis, that's what they do. They all ready programmed me o my back, I won't give them another opportunity. THe whitecoats are coming, the whitecoats are coming.  |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 03:48:19
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quote:
There is no way in the world I'm getting mine checked out, they will just give me some kind of diagnosis, that's what they do. They all ready programmed me o my back, I won't give them another opportunity. THe whitecoats are coming, the whitecoats are coming
This made me laugh 2scoops because it's exactly right..It's what they do....Well said.. |
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Indy
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 04:27:55
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Hi Inferno
Looking at knee problems from a completely holistic point of view because that's what one has to do, I believe, to make the problem go away permanently, one has to address not only the physical causations but also the mental, emotional, and spiritual (energetic).
Physical - Fact is that maybe the knee is slightly out of alignment but not severely enough to cripple you. Try an osteopath or chiropractor. I had the same condition for a time and my chiro eliminated the problem in 5 minutes.
Mental - The mind may be using your knee as a convenient place to distract you with pain. Keep doing Sarno's approach.
Energetic - Your vital energy field (aura, chi, prana, life force, whatever you want to call it) may be blocked for some reason in the knee or on that side of your body and is affecting the knee. Try energy therapies like Therapeutic Touch, Reiki, Healing Touch, etc.
Emotional - Are you ready for this? The knee represents pride and ego, and the probable emotional cause of knee problems is a stubborn pride and ego, inability to bend, fear, inflexibility, and just plain won't give in. (Louise Hay, "You Can Heal Your Life") Ask yourself what in your life are you being stubborn and inflexible about. To overcome the emotional causation, one has to feel forgiveness, understanding, and compassion for the issue causing the problem.
My experience is that the most difficult part of healing is the emotional part because we all RESIST emotional pain more then any other. Dare I say, even this Forum can be a distraction from doing the work that is necessary. As Sarno suggests, even physical pain can be a distraction from deeper emotional issues. Physical pain stares us in the face; mental pain can always be on our minds; but emotional pain is the only one that we can "stuff" down and literally and mentally forget about, but our physical bodies continually have to deal with it. Repressed emotional energy is completely out of harmoney with the body's natural energetic vibrations and will reek havoc. So emotional pain is the most challenging factor to overcome but absolutely necessary to deal with, otherwise, the physical pain will return either at the same location or somewhere else if the mind "has caught on" to that location.
Hope this helps give you some direction.
Many blessings
Indy |
Edited by - Indy on 07/14/2006 04:32:08 |
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Inferno
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 08:19:41
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Thanks Indy, That was a nicely writen response. Thank you for taking the time. I'll digest what you had to say. Without a doubt I have mind "issues" that need to be addressed. This is what keeps me working on TMS, it was the snapping which tended to divert me back to the physical.
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 09:00:30
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Quote :
"Physical - Fact is that maybe the knee is slightly out of alignment but not severely enough to cripple you. Try an osteopath or chiropractor. I had the same condition for a time and my chiro eliminated the problem in 5 minutes."
The above advice is toltaly out of keeping with TMS theory. A cure that was achieved in 5 minutes was a placebo effect.
"Energetic - Your vital energy field (aura, chi, prana, life force, whatever you want to call it) may be blocked for some reason in the knee or on that side of your body and is affecting the knee. Try energy therapies like Therapeutic Touch, Reiki, Healing Touch, etc.'[/quote]
The above would fit well into the thread about Sarno and G-d. These therapies are akin to shaminism, witch doctoring or voo-doo; placebo effects, that can be quite pleasurable at times--massage with a tad of the spiritual thrown in. Only as effective as the charisma that the practitioner can impart. I know, I've tried many of these, with only short term results. Almost as soon as you leave the parking lot, the good vibes are gone.
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Edited by - tennis tom on 07/14/2006 09:06:15 |
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Indy
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 10:03:04
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Hi Tennis Tom
Everyone has free will to decide what is the right approach for him/her to do, and rightly so; people need to take more responsibility for their well-being and not rely so much on what others tell them to do. Suggestions are only that - suggestions. The more options that a person has the more sound his/her decision-making process and the better choices he/she will make. However, noone knows you better than you. More people would do well if they listen to and followed their own inner wisdom, which can be accessed, by the way, through undominant hand journaling.
quote:
I've tried many of these, with only short term results. Almost as soon as you leave the parking lot, the good vibes are gone.
Inner rage will alter the emotional and mental serenity of any approach to wellness, be it holistic, naturopathic, allopathic, ayurvedic, etc. Until your inner rage is healed, any therapy, I believe, will have only temporary positive effect. Somewhere down the road, the "energy" of rage will keep nipping at your heels.
It is unfortunate, however, that you have such a negative, close-minded view of energy therapies that have been around since Jesus and probably before.
"In every culture and in every medical tradition before ours, healing was accomplished by moving energy." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, Nobel Laureate in Medicine
Many blessings
Indy
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Edited by - Indy on 07/14/2006 10:28:23 |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 10:12:41
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| WARNING TO TOM, WARNING TO TOM!!!!!!! my INNER voice tells that right or wrong , you IS in trouble my friend, voodoo?????? shaminism??? witch doctoring???? strong words, I AM NOT CHALLENGING YOU, as I will be the first one to admit that I AM NO EXPERT IN THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF REIKI, , ENERGY HEALING, ETC, my sister had therapeutic touch done while undergoing cancer therapy , she was very opposed to the idea and a complete disbeliever, she only agreed to it to please a friend, somehow it helped her, I seriously doubt that any benefit to her could have come from placebo as she is a strictly conventional treatment type of person, for example I spent weeks doing research till the wee hours of the morning on her particular type of cancer, which is multiple myeloma, and found a paper done by a doctor who swears that he has kept his patients in remission by injectingthem with high doses of b12, he even had directions for one's own oncologist, there is no cure for this type of cancer, even after a stem cell transplant ( which she had last year) the longest remission is five years, I felt my sister had nothing to lose by trying this simple b12 program, I made five copies of the document for her different oncologists, she never bothered to look into it as she does not believe in anything outside of medecine, all this to say she would not have benefited from the therapeutic touch unless it gave her real relief, as for healing touch , heck, we could all use a little healing touch , were it to contribute to our sense of well being even temporarely would be a plus it seems, I REMEMBER CRYING AFTER A MASSAGE, SEEMS THERE WAS SO MUCH TENSION STORED IN MY BODY THAT NEEDED TO BE RELEASED, THE MASSAGE PROVIDE THAT OUTLET IT SEEMS, I think these might be useful tools in addition to looking at the emotions that brought so much tension in the body, I DON'T FEEL IT IS ANTI TMS to use massage and the like as a way of releasing tension out of the body as long as one recognise tms as the source of the tensions. Could be I am wrong, if so I am sure you will let me know, be gentle okay ha! ha! |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 11:04:24
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Indy, all you say is nicely put, but look at the top of the page, it says :
TMSHELP FORUM
Almost everything you talk about is in direct conflct and opposition to THE GOOD DOCTOR'S THEORY and everthing he writes about in all his books. He prescibes to his patients that he dx's with TMS, to repudiate all "quick fix" cures such as : injections, medication, manipulation.
This has nothing to do with me being negative or shmegative--it has to do with the title of this forum. Have you read any of Sarno's books and if so, which ones and how many times?
Do you derive income from what you preach here? If so you are far from objective. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 11:15:23
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Thank you, Tom.
Dr. Sarno is very clear about chiropractic and alternative therapies.
The bottom line is this: if you look for solutions to your physical problems in chiropractic or EMDR or EFT or energy therapy or any other means, regardless of whether that therapy has any merit, it is counter to TMS theory.
So many people are looking for a magic bullet when the answer is inside yourself. Only you can heal yourself of TMS because the symptoms are caused by emotional conflicts inside you. Relief comes from accepting this, and exploring it, and not looking for some other means of relief.
If you find chiropractic, massage, or even voodoo effective for your pain, that's great. But then, you're in a totally different world from TMS. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 12:19:11
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Inferno,
I have had cracking in my knees since I was little. My wrists used to crack when my arms hurt, my neck and back crack when they are tight. But these are all just TMS symptoms that come and go, come and go. The knee cracking is there even when my knees do not hurt.
In short, I do not believe cracking is itself a problem. It is a side effect of TMS making the muscles/tendons/joints stiffer, and will go away when the TMS does.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 12:40:22
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ACL,
You know you always seem to help me, even when you are trying to help someone else! Thank you for that! I have been very concerned about how incredibly tight my neck is, how the muscles keep going into spasms and I cannot move my neck...TMS discussions talk alot about pain and neuro symptoms but not too much about STIFFNESS and I have that, big time...What you wrote here about how the TMS causes the muscles and joints to be stiff was very helpful to me...I am reading the Divided Mind now, very early in the book..Does anyone know of a place in it later on where Dr. Sarno talks about STIFFNESS and muscles tightness, lack of mobility as a byproduct of TMS?
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 14:02:43
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[quote]Originally posted by Singer_Artist
ACL,
You know you always seem to help me, even when you are trying to help someone else! Thank you for that! I have been very concerned about how incredibly tight my neck is, how the muscles keep going into spasms and I cannot move my neck...TMS discussions talk alot about pain and neuro symptoms but not too much about STIFFNESS and I have that, big time...What you wrote here about how the TMS causes the muscles and joints to be stiff was very helpful to me...I am reading the Divided Mind now, very early in the book..Does anyone know of a place in it later on where Dr. Sarno talks about STIFFNESS and muscles tightness, lack of mobility as a byproduct of TMS?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SA, two words : INDEX / "Muscles" |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 14:11:24
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| Your knee issue may be plain old fashioned crepitus. |
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Inferno
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 14:30:13
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Hey Mary and ACL,
Mary... nope, it's not crepitus, I've got crepitus in both knees and have had for some time. My complaint is a distinct "snap", where I can actually feel, and hear, some tissue snap off of another. You can literally hear it from across the room.
What I find interesting is that I became aware of the "snapping" at least a month after feeling initial pain. Again, I am a firm believer in TMS, but the physical sensations I feel are not normal for me. I guess I'm searching for anyone who has had like symptoms and has gotten over them using the TMS approach.
It sounds like Armchairlinguist has found this snapping to be a manifestation of TMS. If so, that gives me hope that perhaps it might can be resolved.
Thanks for all the responses, |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 15:19:53
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Karen,
Actually I think I asked about it on the forum! Because I didn't know if Sarno talked about it. But my feeling about the physical mechanism for my TMS is this: In order to generate pain, the brain creates oxygen deprivation to the muscles. The muscles do not work so well, and develop trigger points (http://www.triggerpointbook.com/), which make the muscles feel stiff, cause pain, and have restricted range of motion. Once trigger points develop they are easy to maintain and activate because the muscle fiber tends to stay tight, so the pain can come and go on a moment's notice. Activation comes from the brain (turning off oxygen) rather than use (the muscles). Any stiffness I feel comes from these trigger points sticking around, remnants, less severe symptoms (my stiffness is not so bad as to stop relatively normal ROM), of TMS.
I'm not sure this is right even for me, and it's certainly different for each person, but it does seem reasonable, explain how stiffness relates, and explain why I got good temporary results from trigger point therapy.
My snapping ranges from very quiet to very loud and can sound painful, but is actually a pleasant feeling, sometimes!
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 07/14/2006 15:21:06 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 15:45:05
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Thanx ACL,
But my range of motion is very limited in my neck and the muscles spasms have been really bad today and yesterday especially...It started after i tried to paint..and yes...I am stressed about my upcoming art show and opening reception..I don't want to be like this when greeting the people, etc..It would be comforting to know that some others on here (esp. people who;s main complaint was neck) have experienced this extreme limitation in ROM as just another reaction to the TMS process... |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 18:50:15
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Karen,
I'm really reluctant to recommend this [what I'm about to recommend] to you because I'm concerned it will further your focus on the pain. And I might get jumped on by Tom or Dave for saying it anyway.
However, it might also help you get out of your temporary major funk and to a point where the pain and other symptoms are just easier to handle. Even Sarno and Amir say that sometimes if we are having so much trouble that we can't concentrate on the work, a painkiller (or other placebo temporary pain relief, I'm assuming) is ok.
You could try the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook methods as a way of temporarily decreasing your pain and ROM problems so that you are more able to cope with the underlying issues. NB I do not believe that this will solve the problem, and I don't even know if it will make a difference for you, as it may not be your problem. I had been doing said therapy for 10 months when I found Sarno. It did not fix me. But it allowed me to function. It is purely a temporary manual way of interfering with the symptoms. But it can be a useful one.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Please advise, Knee Pain w/ annoying snapping
