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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2006 : 01:02:17
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| On page 31, of THE DIVIDED MIND, Dr. Sarno makes reference to the "celestial architect". I would think this could be froth with many interesting TMS implications. Comments ? |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 06:22:41
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| Well that could imply anything really. I don't remeber reading that, so I would have to see the enntire page to make a full judgement. But I do remember Sarno talking about Evolution in Healing Back Pain, so I'm not convinced he is referring to God. Evolution and God are two different beliefs in my book. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 07:09:43
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I'm not seeing the importance/relevance right off...Most people believe in God. I don't, but I'm in the minority it seems..
Either way,I can't see how it would materially alter my approach to TMS
quote:
Evolution and God are two different beliefs in my book.
Self-evidently so, but not at all mutually exlusive |
Edited by - art on 07/13/2006 07:16:28 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 07:57:00
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| I know many of you are sick of hearing from me, but this is a good topic..I will keep it brief...I have the Divided MInd...I believe that Dr. Sarno is refering to G-d, for sure...He would probably have been more clear about it, but was worried about offending the many non-believers out there...He wanted to keep religion/spirituality out of it...Fred Amir is the opposite...He overtly talks about G-d in his book, that is one of the reasons I am enjoying it so much... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 09:04:49
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"...so I'm not convinced he is referring to God. Evolution and God are two different beliefs in my book."
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Hi 2scoops,
You seem to have a divided mind on this one...maybe Sarno was refering to Frank Lloyd Wright? 
The celestial being is a synonym for a supreme being in many religions.
tt
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 09:08:31
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I have yet to read TDM, its on my list of things to do.
Overall, I would think the reference pretty vague and may just be there to be receptive to a wider audience. I'll post back after the read. Dr. Sarno has relaxed his delivery in each of his successive books, so it can't really hurt his image or position on TMS (just like his new glasses - http://www.flickr.com/photos/virgorama/61873301/in/set-1341857/ ;-).
Time to go buy TDM. -Stryder
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 09:32:01
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| TT, I just don't see how Sarno could believe in God we he has made reference to evolution. If you believe in God, then you believe He created the universe, evolution is contradictory to that. Clesetial architect just sounds like one of those politically correct words. To me it could be evolutionary, could mean God, I guess he would have to explain it. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 09:43:10
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| Perhaps Dr. Sarno is open minded and believes in both evolution as well as a Creator..Who's to say they are both not true..Hard for us to fathom given we use only 10 percent of our brain capacity...Maybe he believes that a Creative Force (namely God) started the Universe (Big Bang) and then evolution took over from there... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 10:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by 2scoops
TT, I just don't see how Sarno could believe in God we he has made reference to evolution. If you believe in God, then you believe He created the universe, evolution is contradictory to that. Clesetial architect just sounds like one of those politically correct words. To me it could be evolutionary, could mean God, I guess he would have to explain it.
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2scoops,
I'm just quoteing from what I saw on page 31, of _TDM_. The Good Doctor Sarno says "celestial being". He did not say "evolution" on that page. I guess we'll never know Dr. Sarno's religious beliefs since he's never posted on this board. But it would be way-cool if he would make a special gueat appearance someday and answer our questions. I suppose someone could write him and ask the question. He does reply to correspondence, at least he did to me once.
I personally find no conflict between evolution and belief in the possible existence of a "celestial being" or a holy "What-Ev-r"
I was an anthro/archaeology major way back when I thought Timothy Leary was the bees-knees at a SF State, and can tell you there is as much hard evidence for evolution as there is soft evidence for G-d. The evidence for how the universe was formed is still hotly debated and we will probably never know the truth--but it's intersting to speculate--that's what keeps the Ivory Tower in bizness.
Archaeologic evidence is based on miniscule fragments, usually found serendipitously in ancient garbage heaps. I've dug the stuff up and once was awarded a bottle of champagne for discovering the first burial on a dig.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
tt |
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bdystore
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 10:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
On page 31, of THE DIVIDED MIND, Dr. Sarno makes reference to the "celestial architect". I would think this could be froth with many interesting TMS implications. Comments ?
You are the divine creator of your reality. If you cant change your mind about a belief, you cant change anything.
Look into the mirror, what do you want to see in yourself, in your life change. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 11:16:33
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I like what you said bdystore..Very true..We do create our realities in many ways with out thoughts/beliefs...I have seen this first hand in my life...We have yet to even begin to understand or realize the power of our own precious minds..."Greater things shall ye do..." "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.." were pretty profound quotes of Jesus Himself...
There are huge loopholes in the theory of evolution, TT, but then it sounds like you realize that..BTW, I met Timothy Leary just b4 his death..He was giving a talk here in Vegas...very cool...I used to really be into Ram Das at the time as well...
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bdystore
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 11:51:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
I "Greater things shall ye do..." "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.." were pretty profound quotes of Jesus Himself...
That is it! That is the very verse my mentor always referred to when she spoke to me about creating the circumstances, good or bad, in my life. If we are going to heal our world, we must begin with our own spirit.
Jesus, was a very "evolved, involved human being"! |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 13:25:53
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Hi Bdystore,
With all due respect for any differences in spiritual viewpoints we may have or anyone may have on this forum, it is my belief at the very core of my being that Jesus was the Son of God, God in the flesh, not just a very evolved human...Buddha,Krishna, etc. never rose from the dead, healed the sick and walked on water,,,to name only a few of the miracles He performed...And this conclusion I feel in my heart/soul came to me more profoundly after years and years of being an Agnostic and studying everything from the Occult to Buddhism..I even stayed with Tibetan monks in a monastery to learn...So, in my case, it is not my upbringing, societal programming or anything like that...Just to cover it all ahead of time..lol..anticipating some of the responses I might get on here..:) Very interesting topic TT...Take care,
Karen |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 14:46:37
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| Singer, I believe you would enjoy reading Henry Wright's A More Excellent Way. Some other good reads on healing are A.B Simpson's Divine Healing and The Lord For The Body, F.F Bosworth's Christ The Healer, and Osborn's Healing The Sick. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 15:24:35
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quote:
There are huge loopholes in the theory of evolution
Name one.  |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 15:35:11
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Wow, thanx 2scoops!!...I never heard of those! I will put them on my list...Gotta finish the TMS books first...
Hiya Art,
You know me enough to realize that I am not coping out by saying this..but..I am going to stop here because I don't want this to turn into a big Evolution vs. Creation debate...No what I mean jellybean?
But I will say this one thing...one loophole has to do with the atmosphere of the Earth billions of years ago and non creationist scientists have come to believe that at a biochemical level intelligent design must have been involved in the creation of the Universe..Geez...lol..sounds like I just took a hit of acid, lol..but seriously there are alot of loopholes Art..just don't want to get into it all now..I am in the middle of painting for the first time in 7 weeks and it isn't pain free, that is for sure..But I don't want to disturb my creative flow too much by talking about the Mysteries of the Universe.. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 17:06:21
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2scoops,
It seems you believe that one can either believe in God or evolution. I personally think that this is the typical narrow minded paradigm the church/religion wants people to have. (that was not intended to be a pot shot at you!!!!) Do you ever think that maybe God is the reason for evolution??? If God did create something wouldn't he want it to grow and evolve as best it can? I can't stand religion, because it has distorted the perception of what God really is. I'm very spiritual and do very much believe in "God" Watch these two docos "what the bleep do we know" and "cracking the code of the extra ordinary" Ramtha. This might expand your perception. Now not to get to far 'out there' This view has helped me with my application to TMS. I'm the creator of my own reality, this has given me confidence and faith. Allowed me to stop stressing about silly stuff and remove most of the negativity in my head..........all still a work in progress. I haven't read the book yet, but maybe what he's trying to say is that one needs to constantly expand his perceptions, and get a grasp on the bigger picture. This can help calm our active minds. We, as in TMSers are not stupid. Just read some of the posts, we are all very intelligent and at some point most of us suffer anxiety (or still do).......which is what most intelligent people get, not all. My mind was always processing eveything right through to the end...'what if' So now that I have a greater understanding I can see that I don't have to just sit and take it. I have the ability to direct my life. Maybe that's where Sarno is going??? When it comes to a certain situation if one Believes he can or Believes he can't, either way he is right. Hope this isn't too far out with the fairies for people.
What's your return serve TT?? |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 17:39:28
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Well, when you have time, would be great to hear. The thing is there is no debate in the scientific community. Evolution is about as settled as gravity.
IT's a subject I take much interest in, and am always bemused by the insistence that evolution is somehow still an open question.
People can believe what they want of course, and say what they want. It's a great country we live in.
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Edited by - art on 07/13/2006 18:06:27 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 19:35:35
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Hey Darko,
Saw 'What the Bleep,' great movie...I am very much into Quantum Physics and love Masura Emoto's work w/ the water crystals...It does show that we must think more positive thoughts, since we are 90 percent, not 70 percent as formerly believed, water...Fascinating subject..I like what you said about how God would want us to Evolve,but I see it from a different perspective then Evolutionists...As for religion, I hear you there too...however...I consider myself to be a very open minded Christian, the way, in my view..Jesus would have wanted it...He taught us that we have great powers with our amazing minds, we just need to use them for the greater good, of course...
Hi Art,
Briefly,there are no fossilized remains to indicate an orderly evolutionary process in mankinds past...There is a huge gap, in other words...If evolution were true wouldn't there be a intermediate species that would be in the transitionary state between Ape and Man? We have Ape's still and we have Man, but we don't have Ape-Man...(well for the most part, lol)...
Gravity cannot be fully understood by modern science...
Scientists will never admit that they just 'don't know'..they always come up with some theory or educated guess...At one time in history the scientific consensus was that the world was flat and the heavenly bodies revolved around the Earth...
Just taking a look at the splendor of nature and the complexity of the human eye alone is enough to indicate intelligent design... |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 20:16:30
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| Art--You asked exactly what I was going to ask. Good job! The fundamentalists (I don't mean you Karen) love to put out this lie about the "huge loopholes" in Evolution. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 20:29:07
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A recommendation for all those interested in such things:
The Hidden Face of God : Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth, by Gerald L. Schroeder
I promise you it will challenge your thinking. If you can get through the groundwork in the beginning, it is one of the most incredible studies I have ever seen. I also heard him interviewed on the radio by, I think, Dennis Prager. Maybe a transcript can be obtained somewhere.
I was thinking about this book while reading Healing Back Pain, especially the straining Sarno did to try to explain the action within the autonomic nervous system. This, I think, will ultimately be the part of his theory that can't stand up to the scientific critics. It simply is too complex for our minds as they now are (Gosh, I almost said have evolved!) It was the part I had the most difficulty accepting. The other side of my brain is in awe of the guy for having the stones to put it out there like he did.
I, and many others, believe that the fact that we can eat something, lie down and lose consciousness, and some intelligent force (within us or not) not only breaks down the food into cell nourishment, but also keeps me breathing and my heart pumping, points to something outside me that precoded this stuff to happen. Chopra and Wayne Dyer are also adept at inspring awe in us relative to this function, as well as the immune system. I found it humbling indeed to wade into these waters just for a look.
That minutia has always awed me, like pondering "forever," as is promised of believers, so I don't wade there often. I am, after all, from a fairly limited lineage of evolutionary strain. |
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Sarno Believes in G - D
