| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2006 : 13:22:56
|
HI guys,
I just started reading over the wonderful quotes Ralph sent me and it reminded me of something I wanted to post/ask but totally forgot. I figured I better post while it was fresh on my mind (could be my mind not wanting to find out the answer or something).
When is foregiveness not enough? Or how can you tell when you have truel forgiven?
For example I thought I had total forgiven and gotten over my great uncle (funny how great is used in family terms when they so are not great unless you add great loser, great freak, great moron, etc. LOL) constantly telling me that I have great boobs and some man will love to handle those boobs one day and that I would make any man happy because of my boobs. (I was in high school and only put up with it because I would stay the night at my greatgrandma's house with him one night a week to help take care of her, she didn't want men helping her use the bathroom and couldn't do it herself, wipe that is. I slept in a whole other part of the house and he slept in the same room with his mother). Well when I was 19 or 20 he tried to grope me up top when he was semi drunk. I had been warned about him by other family members but in such subtle ways that I didn't know what they meant. That was the last time I ever saw him alone, I visited him with my now ex boyfriend last year. I am civil when I see him, like at family functions, but do my best to stay away from him. Anyway, I thought I had forgiven him and I was totally over everything. Well the other day someone mentioned him out of the blue and I started to hurt worse. The only reason I noticed this was because I had been reading up on TMS and was trying to notice triggers. He is definitely a trigger but I thought I had already forgiven him. I don't hate him, don't like him that much either but I don't hate him. So when is foregiveness not enough? Apparently it's not because he's still a trigger. Thanks for reading.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
|
|
jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 13:37:10
|
OK it's odd to respond to my own post but my best friend responded to me and wants to see if anyone else agrees with her assumptions and rationalizations. For background, she and Nikki were best friends for years then factors entered in and they departed less than on the best of terms.
let me ponder that a while..i think everyone has issues there one way or another. i think my best example is nikki beacause i really don't hate her and i really wish her no harm-maybe mild suffering--jk--anyway. yet thinking about it makes me feel ugh or even sad and possibly anxious if i think about why we are no longer friends. i think possibly we forive others but don't forgive ourselves for not making everything "right". it's like regret over what was lost and guilt over a bad ending. it's like it's hard to move on and say it's ok not to be perfect or it's okay if we don't have much in common any more. we outwardly accept it and others as not perfect but we still think we ought to have done something different. kinda like a what if syndrome.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
 |
|
|
wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 13:49:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by jrnythpst
So when is foregiveness not enough? Apparently it's not because he's still a trigger.
Sounds to me that you haven't forgiven at all. Whether you should or not may not even be the point. Acknowledge the anger and/or suffering it caused you. When someone brings him up and he's a trigger, allow yourself to get angry. If you hold it in, repress it, that's when I think the pain will show up the most.
Jay
|
|
|
|
jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 13:59:29
|
Thanks Jay, but I felt for sure that I had forgiven. Maybe I am just unclear of how to forgive or how to fully forgive. I swear I thought I had though. I was fine with it for years, just started becoming a trigger again recently. That or I blocked out the trigger. I also wonder how well my repression has been conducted over the years. LIke with the ex boyfriend from high school that picked me up by my neck (man these posts don't make me sound good but they are honest), well a few weeks, which is not a long time went by, and my best friend at the time and I were in food lion where he worked and she said isn't that so and so. Well I had repressed his image and didn't recognize him or no who he was. That kind of scared me. I have tried not to do that ever again but wonder how much I did it in the past and how much I have done it subconsciously since. Maybe my best friend is right, maybe I haven't forgiven myself but have forgiven the person. I really really don't know.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 14:09:25
|
Forgiveness is a tough issue for most of us I think...
I forgive, to the extent that I do, mostly because I have to for the sake of my own health...So for me, forgiveness is a selfish thing...
For one example, I was in business with a brother and it didn't end at all well..I'll never forgive him in the sense that I want to hang around with him, or even see him if I don't have to, but I don't allow my anger to eat me up alive..
He even tried to apologize once, but it was his typical insincere, still doesn't get it kind of gesture, and it actually made things worse for a while..A lot of it for me is just deep breaths...If I feel the old anger welling up I just make a conscious effort to let it all go again..
The thing is, it's a process...If I were to go through some sort of formal, once-and-for-all forgiveness ritual, it would only last until the next time I thought of what he did...So I guess for me it's a never-ending series of ongoing forgivings.... |
|
|
|
Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 14:18:47
|
Great subject Ali Cat and Art! I am battling with it as well regarding my only and older sister...There is a fine line between feeling our anger/feelings and letting them go...I have read in countless books (most importantly, the Bible) that forgiveness is ESSENTIAL to our own health both spiritually and mentally...Surely also PHYSICALLY especially in the case of TMSers like us! I thought I forgave my sister but the trouble is that she keeps doing the same thing over and over again causing more harm..So I have to re-forgive her over and over...
Sometimes it gets to a point where I begin to try to think.."I can never change her or anyone, except myself.." I Must just accept that this is how she is and will probalby always be..She is self absorbed and very selfish...I am a giver, she is a taker...There has always been an imbalance in our relationship...So regarding forgiveness again...for me...I chose to pray about it...Pray for the other person even when they are really pissing me off...IT IS HARD TO DO THIS, believe me...But well worth the effort i think...Sometimes i think it would take me 10 lifetimes (if reincarnation existed) to forgive my sister for all she has done to hurt me and every family member i love...BUT...then I realize I don't have that kind of time...and time does go by soooo fast...It's not healthy for me to be holding onto all this anger toward her, so I do my best to let it all go...Art is so right...It is a process, not really a one time event! |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 14:40:26
|
Maybe it's possible to consciously forgive someone, but still not possible for the unconscious mind to forgive. Somewhere Sarno says that there is no time in the unconscious; time can't pass and diminish the pain like it can for the conscious. If that's true (which seems reasonable, or else why would childhood trauma be such a major force in TMS?) then how could the unconscious forgive? It's near impossible to forgive a fresh trauma.
I don't think that forgiveness is really a very useful focus during attempting to work with TMS. Yes, it's great to try to deal with things that have bothered us so that they don't consume us, take our energy, etc. If we can forgive, that's great. But it's important that we understand and acknowledge how those painful times truly affected us first, and not be all the time thinking "Shouldn't I forgive this, though?" because that will just make more rage...remember, the inner child does not like self-criticism!
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
|
h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 15:04:46
|
I REALLY recommend John Lee's book called:
Facing the Fire
for this topic. Anger needs expressed, but it doesn't have to be to the one who caused the anger.
If letting go of anger worked, we would all do it.
Take Care
Beth |
|
|
|
Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 16:24:28
|
ACL,
Great reply! Makes alot of sense too...about the inner child hating criticism and if we keep telling ourselves to forgive and forget he/she will even become more enraged...I never thought of it that way...And I was wondering about how to balance forgiving (when you can) and dealing w/ the anger inside...It think for us TMSers, especially those of us still in acute pain, dealing w/ the anger inside is most important...I believe Dr. S. says we do not have to re-live each event that caused us hurt or even remember what happened exactly...Just to acknowledge that reservoir of uncconscious rage is good enough...What a relief because when i think of trying to recal everything/everyone that ever got me angry in my life...i think i would be spending the rest of my days on that project alone! Also...underneath anger is typically deep sadness...I think when we let go of some of the sadness it is just as healing...
Beth,
I might just have to get that book too...but i am so busy reading several others right now..Will put it on the list...
|
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 03:36:20
|
Karen,
Thanks for the feedback! I was not sure if I was being too harsh on forgiveness. I do believe it's good, even great, just needs to come in its own time! I have always had trouble forgiving and now I wonder if it's because I've rarely been able to acknowledge and deal with the emotions, so the problem was still "alive" in my psyche and my brain would not allow me to put it to rest by forgiving. I have also recently experienced a case where after I verbalized my anger with a friend enough times (and whoa was it way more times/time than I expected...it took 3 years and at least 3 major verbalizations and many many minor ones...probably because talking is not very effective for release of anger), I was able to feel more peaceful about the relationship and try to rebuild it on more realistic expectations. The way I think of forgiveness is a willingness to move forward in a relationship without baggaging it with the past (though the relationship is inevitably affected by the past), and by that standard I have forgiven in this case -- even though I also still feel, deep down, the same feelings from the painful time. They just don't bother me because they are acknowledged and thus at rest. That's been interesting for me and I feel like it encouraged personal growth, so I'm hoping to work on it for other problematic relationships.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
When is foregiveness not enough?
