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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2006 : 09:00:27
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| Just wanted to tell everyone that I use Wobenzym (a systemic enzyme for inflammation, no side effects) and 15 min of ice followed by 10 or so min of heat for my neck in the shower..it does help a bit without the bad effects of advil and other anti inflammatory drugs...Not sure Dr. S would agree because the only thing he prescribes when necessary is just regular pain killers... |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 14:48:58
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You're right, Dr. Sarno would strongly disagree.
Applying ice and heat reinforces the belief that the pain is due to a physical cause. You must accept that ice and heat can give nothing more than a placebo relief. The only modality Dr. Sarno admits has some benefit is deep tissue ultrasound massage, since it can increase oxygen flow in the muscles. However, even this kind of treatment is discouraged because it keeps you focused on the physical.
Also, Dr. Sarno is very adamant that there is no inflammation involved in TMS. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 16:50:59
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| I hear ya, Dave...I guess I was thinking that i had heard also that ice and heat do increase blood flow and since Dr. Sarno talks about TMS causing a decrease in blood flow, I thought it might help speed up the process, without the side effects of pain pills...I am still somewhat brainwashed by the other doctors into thinking that i have some inflammation going on that needs treatment..When you say ultrasound deep tissue massage do you mean just regular ultrasound that is offered by a physial therapist? I wasn't aware that they could also use this while doing a deep tissue massage...For now, massage on my neck irritates..but maybe down the line it's something i could consider... |
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jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:29:27
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In the Divided Mind he (Dr. Sarno) says he is unclear if inflammation is a TMS equivalent or not. The inflammation I have is NOT responding to any medicine and I have been through the gammet, tried ice, ultrasound, heat, creams/ointments, elevation, physical therapy, and nothing helps. I will keep everyone posted if I find anything else out on this.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:36:41
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quote:
Also, Dr. Sarno is very adamant that there is no inflammation involved in TMS.
Has his positioned hardened, or has it always been so? |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:46:09
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jrnytpst:
So are you saying your "inflammation" is or is not TMS?
I'm struggling with this one myself. |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:50:32
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Karen,
I have tried those Wobenzym things before, and never got any relief. Plus, they're pretty expensive as I recall.
The following quotes are from Nate McNamara's web site. Although they speak of RSI, any TMS activity that causes pain can be inserted
quote:
In my experience, it is not only possible but also necessary for severe RSI sufferers to use their minds to make RSI pain go away completely and permanently and to remove all of their RSI-related limitations. Again, this is due to the nervous system involvement. No matter how much physical treatment you get, the pain will return if your nervous system is continually creating the conditions causing the pain.
As you consciously believe that the activity is harmless - then you will dampen the nervous system's initial reaction. As your conscious mind vetoes that initial reaction frequently (and it will for activities you do often), your nervous system will learn a new way of responding - it will allow the blood to flow.
With all of the life changes you are going through right now, I think you would do well to focus on the Psychological, not the Physical.
I know it's tempting to do the "Well, my brain is keeping oxygen from this region, so I'll physically increase oxygen to this area." thing, as I have fallen prey to this myself. That's why aerobic exercise is SO good for us TMS'ers. But, until you stop your brain, your just running a treadmill.
I agree with Art (UH-OH, did I really just say that  ) about Inflamation. I believe if the brain can restrict oxygen to an area, it can sure as heck swell that area. Some clinicians have told me lack of oxygen causes inflamation. I do well with thinking my brain can do the inflamation thing, and that my telling the brain to reverse it will be effective, too.
Try the Fred Amir yelling at your brain thing. I know you have, but if it was me, I'd get in front of the mirror and just yell "Look, Brain, I'm going through ENOUGH right now with the roomie and the boyfriend and the dogs and my friends and the moving and the new gigs! I don't have time for your piddly little TMS CRAP, so f*(& you - I'm going to the gym to burn off steam."
Hugs,
Beth
Beth |
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jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 13:42:07
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Hi Maryalma,
The answer is......the survey is still out on that one but I will let you know once they return. LOL I don't really make light of it but the truth is my doctor is uncertain but thinks there is a distinct possibility that it too could be TMS rearing it's ugly bulbous (get it inflamed) head in the knees. DMARDs, NSAIDS, Biologics, Anageslics, physical therapy, ice, hot, creams/ointments, narcotics...nothing has helped get rid of the inflammation which leads credence to hey maybe it's not really inflammation at least not the kind that can be treated with medicines.
I am doing my best to work on it. Just started (ok slowly incorporating) a self improvement plan, the first goal is to regularly journal, which so far I am. I would be glad to post my plan outline on here if you think it would help. I am debating on joining weight watchers again too. I am tired of the pain casuing me to be a hermit in my own life. I am tired of being in fear of causing more pain if I try to actually live so I am taking a stand against myself! A civil war....er um party in my own body!!!! Wish me luck and I will keep everyone posted on any inflammation updates.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 14:48:33
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I think Sarno's preference for painkillers over other placebo relief is a little bizarre, personally. Maybe he likes it because it's quick and you can't spend a lot of time on it, like you can on stretching, ice, heat, massage, etc.
But when I do get pain flareups (yep, I do, have a party in my left upper back right now) I'd rather heat up a little rice pack and put it on, or do a little bit of trigger point, so I can concentrate on doing the work and getting on with my day, not the pain. They work immediately instead of taking 30 min, and don't have long-term side effects.
Still, I think making a habit of any of it, when not necessary due to pain level, is contrary to the TMS diagnosis. We really do have to liberate our minds and lives from the pain, and that includes making it go away without physical help (whether gradually or suddenly). I got a taste of my own medicine with this flareup because that's what I've been telling others to do, and I got reminded how hard it is. I had less success getting the back pain under my conscious control in the first place, and now I'm paying for it! Hopefully this time I'll do better.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 15:58:10
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Thanx Beth,
That was an awesome post,,,great suggestions! You could be TMS counselor, no kidding...Talk to you soon...Thanx for your caring words!
Hugs!
Karen |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 09:49:05
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Karen,
That was a really sweet thing to say, thanks.
I WAS a counselor of sorts, I counseled myself OVER and OVER and OVER. I swear, I thought I would NEVER get better.
Take care of Karen, today, and get her in shape 
Hugs,
Beth |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 15:05:02
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thanx Bethie!
And it looks like I will be in NY starting in late Sept. and then returning here in January..potentially to relocate permanently...Maybe I will be able to organize a NY/NJ TMS support group....Coolness!
Hugs,
Karen |
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jrnythpst
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 15:12:49
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Keep me posted on that Karen, my cousin lives in NJ and I hope to visit her sometime next year! Maybe I will get back to my artwork and have something to show for it by then too! Best wishes for a smooth transition.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
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larkascending
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 20:35:23
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Karen,
I was on Wobenzym in a huge way (15 a day!) for a year and a bit and then went cold turkey in April. I took them before each meal and then would feel much better after I'd eaten. I was so dependant on them and getting off of them was really scary for me - I thought I'd never have that few hours of feeling ok each day again. I had intense pain for a few days (my mind screaming oh no! she's onto us! Quick give her some pain!) and then...I felt the same as I did on Wobenzym, but without the yo-yo effect of in my system, out of my system. They were costing me an arm and a leg and I think it was completely a placebo effect. My mother was on them as well (I know she has TMS - she doesn't)and when she went off them, she too noticed no difference. The MRI she had while on them also showed inflammation (so maybe they weren't doing much for the inflammation..).
Wobenzyme is much better for you than regular anti-inflammatories but I should tell you that both my mother and I have strange red spots all over our legs since taking it. My naturopath said it was my body's way of getting rid of a large store of undigested enzymes. Who knows, maybe the rash is also a TMS equivalent! (Although I doubt it because I don't pay much attention to it.)
Good Luck,
Lark. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2006 : 08:36:20
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Wow, thanx Lark..Appreciate that very much...I take 5 a day in the morning on an empty stomach for quite awhile now...I have had real injuries involving inflammation in my knee and it seemed to help...Sometimes I will take 10 on an acute day after an 'incident..' They are expensive, for sure...And I would like to get off of them..I also used them for previous thickening in my uterus as well as uterine fibroids which are benign...Since i am losing weight right now, which tends to throw hormones off temporarily, my plan is to keep taking them til i level off at goal weight...Then i will wean off over a week or so...I don't want to keep taking them either..As for the red spots...that is interesting cuz last year after 2 injuries i was taking 800 mg. of naproxen (aleve) Rx for several months a few times a day...My doc said to, my pharmasist said it was too much..I had those little red spots on my legs..I recal him saying something about my kidneys trying to filter the drug out...Those spots will go away for you and your mom..THe body heals so miraculously..If only all us TMSers would realize this...
God bless,
Karen
Ali Cat,
thanx for the well wishes...I will sure post on here when i am settled in and ready to explore starting a TMS group back there...THe first few months i will be sharing a car so it might be rough..and i will be living in Staten Island...
God bless,
Karen |
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Wobenzym & ice/heat...a suggestion
