| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
JayP
USA
54 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:37:16
|
Quote from Dave - Muscles inflicted with TMS pain do not like to be stretched.
Dave, why is this? Logic tells me that if they were slowly stretched out they would feel better. Unfortunately, it hasn't been the case for me. It just makes them feel worse. Can you (or anyone else) shed some light on why this is?? Thanks.
JayP |
|
|
Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 14:18:57
|
| I get worse sciatic pain when I try to stretch the pain away.....I'm sure it's because, when I do this, I am focusing on the physical -- on an imaginary structural reason for the pain. And also because, at this point, when I stretch the hamstring and other leg and buttocks muscles, I am expecting pain, so naturally, I get it. |
 |
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 14:46:54
|
quote:
Logic tells me that if they were slowly stretched out they would feel better.
Is it logic, or just conditioning?
It's long been thought that stretching is good for us. For example, it prevents injuries. But recent studies cast serious doubt on this assumption.
Stretching will make your muscles more flexible, no doubt. But stretching does nothing for pain relief, and in many people's experience, stretching painful muscles can make the pain worse.
I agree with Fox that in cases of TMS pain, stretching is focusing on the physical which is exactly what your brain wants. If you think stretching will relieve the pain, then you believe on some level that the pain has a physical origin. If you believe that the pain has a psychological origin, then you should accept that no physical treatment will address the cause.
Perhaps there is some benefit to gentle stretching when you're feeling good. Personally, I don't do it, but as part of an overall fitness program (i.e. not to alleviate pain) it probably doesn't hurt. But agressive stretching, as is often taught in physical therapy, can do more harm than good. I know from experience -- I stretched my hamstrings daily for 2 months according to my PT's instructions; it had no effect on my back pain, and may have even made it worse.
|
|
|
|
JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 07:08:37
|
Dave & Fox, thanks for your replies.
If we believe what Sarno says, our muscles hurt because they are not getting enough oxygen, which is a physical response to psychological issues. So does that mean we don't do anything physical at all to get the blood flowing like heat, scratching (I have always found this helpful), or putting pressure on certain pressure points because that is a physical remedy and makes us focus on the physical?
As I've said in past posts, I'm 98% there, but am still dealing with stiffness in my lower back. I recently bought a bike and it's incredible, but my back feels fine when I ride it and better when I get off it! My worst pain occurs in bed when I want to read (Sarno, Amir). Last night the pain was awful until I did some hard scratching, which promptly lessened the pain. I know this is a conditioned response, just as putting on pants in the morning is a struggle due to the stiffness.
I have one other question: How on earth do we stop obsessing about our pain and get back to our lives?? I find that work, although a big source of my stress, helps me to focus on other things and I have less pain when I'm totally focused on something other than my body. I know that eventually I'll stop this obsessive behavior, but it is truly the toughest part of healing. Thanks in advance for your replies.
JayP |
|
|
|
Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:10:53
|
| I think it's best to get rid of all physical remedies that focus on the part of your body that gives you pain. If you don't, believe me, you will be reinforcing the notion that there is a structural reason for the pain and that's just what your tricky brain wants -- to keep you from accepting the TMS concepts 100% and giving up your physical distraction defense......Of course, any overall body workout like biking, running, walking, hitting the heavy bag, etc. is great because it will improve your overall health, get happy brain chemicals flowing, take the focus off your pain, and get the blood flowing all over for a temporary respite from your pain. |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:33:32
|
quote:
So does that mean we don't do anything physical at all to get the blood flowing ... because that is a physical remedy and makes us focus on the physical?
Yes, exactly. Sarno has found that only deep tissue massage in the form of ultrasound provides any significant relief. Originally he prescribed this therapy to his patients, figuring how can it hurt? But he later found that it does hurt the recovery process. His success rate improved when he removed all physical treatments.
Read your message from an outsider's perspective and realize how silly it sounds. You can ride your bike with no pain (an activity that works the lower back muscles significantly and forces a bent posture) but you get pain when you are laying in bed. Laying in bed -- can there be any more benign activity? It makes no sense. It is not logical. Our bodies are not so fragile. It is all conditioning! |
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:11:44
|
Jay,
I totally agree - it is sooo difficult to not want to press or rub my back or hip when it is really bad. I am now trying to remind myself that this does NOTHING! I like that Dave pointed out that really the only thing that helps is the ultrasound - my chiropractor used to do that every time I saw him - probably why it helped a tiny bit but at the same time fed into thinking it is physical- but that is just treating the symptoms not the cause. The cause is in the brain. I purposely now do not try and rub, stretch or even touch the area in pain - if I do, I am focusing on the physical. |
|
|
|
JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:45:06
|
Thanks, Suz, Dave & Fox. I'm still laughing, Dave, at your last comment! You are absolutely right! How ridiculous to have pain while laying on top of my bed reading, but not having any when I bike 5-6 miles!! How do I condition myself on this one? Do I still do it even though it causes pain? Do I maybe get up every 5 minutes and walk around and then go lay down again and try to increase the time I'm laying there? I think this is the most ridiculous, illogical thing TMS has ever played on me!!
JayP
|
|
|
|
Louise
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:57:11
|
JayP -
I used to have conditioned pain in my back/legs when I was laying in bed, also. It struck me as so stupid - why was I in pain when I wasn't doing anything? I realized that it was even more evidence that my pain was not structural and was indeed TMS. The one thing that really helped me break my conditioning was meditation. When I would first lay down in bed, I'd turn my thoughts to my breating, feeling the breath going in and out of my nose and lungs. Just thinking about breathing. When my mind would wander to thoughts of pain, or whatever else, I'd turn my thoughts back to the feeling of the air going in and out of my body. Just keep turning your thoughts back to the intake and exhilation of your breath. You'll realize that when you do this, you don't feel pain. You can take this power and use it to turn off your pain, and de-condition yourself. |
|
|
|
JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 08:35:06
|
Louise,
I did try the breathing exercises that Amir's book sets out in his 9-step plan, and low and behold, my pain lessened after 5 minutes of deep breathing! This weekend I consciously put my back out of my mind. If I found my thoughts drifting to my back, I quickly changed them and it really worked! I shopped for 6 hours on Saturday, tried on clothes, biked 8 miles on Sunday and cleaned out my closet which required stretching and climbing a step ladder. My back was a little stiff, but I ignored it. While I'm happy I've made progress, I want this stiffness to LEAVE. Other posts have indicated that the unconscious takes longer than the conscious to "get the message", so I'll continue reading and journaling. And, if I want to read in bed, I'm gonna do it! |
Edited by - JayP on 08/30/2004 08:35:50 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Stretching Muscles
