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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2006 : 17:53:39
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I've overcome an awful lot of stuff by thinking psychologically, but I'm still contending with a lot of stiffness, generally post workout, though some during as well...
I've always kind of taken for granted that stiffness must be "real," and yet maybe I need to question my assumptions...
I did a search and didn't find a whole lot, so I thought I'd put up thread and see what happens...
Specifically, has anyone here had success treating stiffness as TMS? |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2006 : 19:45:31
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| I used to get stiffness after running, and I thought it was from not stretching, going too hard, too far, etc. I have been pain free for about a year now, and also have not had any stiffness. In short, I would say it is tms. |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 10:56:07
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| What kind of stiffness? What I mean is, when I was seeing doctors about my TMS pain, I complained that my neck, etc., felt stiff. But nobody could find any objective evidence of stiffness -- i.e., reduced range of motion. It was purely a subjective feeling. In my case I know it's definitely TMS. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 13:08:23
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| Yes, what kind of stiffness? Having run on/off for more than 25 yrs I know that stiffness after--or the day after--a long run is normal. It makes sense. Running shortens the muscles, espec the calves and hamstrings. Add to this the micro tears that occur, espec with longer runs and you're going to have SOME stiffness. Is this the kind of ordinary stiffness you're talking about? |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 14:27:22
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Vikki
Does it mean that if you can objectivate stiffness (for example by seeing that there is less neck motion in rotation or articular restriction because of muscle spasms), it is not TMS ?????
P. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 15:26:56
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Hi gang,
In answer to the question, what kind of stiffness, it's for the most part just the typical post work-out stuff...What makes me wonder though if there might be some TMS component involved is the severity of it....Even after a slow-paced five miler, I'll be pretty stiff the last half mile or so, and then have lots of residual stiffness the next morning as well...
I've always been prone to this and just assumed that my age....54...is the reason it's gotten more pronounced. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 15:34:58
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Helo Art,
I agree with you about muscle stiffness being real. I have reduce the pain in my neck and back by at lest 95% since reading Dr. Sarno's books and this forum but I run into muscle stiffness every once in a while. There is no rymn or reason for it to appear.
I workout at the gym at lest one to two hours a day. Today I worked out for two and a half hours and I have no muscle stiffness as I write this.
When I do experience muscle stiffness I will take one naproxen sodium tablet ( equate brand from walMart) in the morning and one at night for three days in a row and I will have no muscle stiffness for months.
I notice that we are the same age (54). Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.
If I'm wrong about this someone please slap me down and set me straight. |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 15:38:14
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FlyByNight,
No, I certainly think TMS can cause objective stiffness from muscle spasms. I just meant that if there are no objective findings, it would be easier for you to believe it's TMS.
Art,
I feel stiff and sore after running particularly fast or a particularly long distance. I've always interpreted that as the "good" soreness that means my muscles are getting stronger. Is that what you're referring to? I've found that since my TMS started, I get that sore/stiff feeling more frequently -- it takes less to bring it on. I'm sure that's caused by TMS. Personally, I think TMS makes me more sensitive -- kind of like I'm on heightened alert -- to any kind of pain, stiffness, or other abnormal feeling. That is, I think it goes along with being hypervigilant about physical symptoms. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 23:12:30
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| I wonder if athletes, espec runners are more prone to TMS than non-athletes. We are very body conscious for one thing, noticing symptoms non-athletes might ignore. And we have had long histories of injuries of one kind or another so we are fearful of reinjury. There's probably some perfectionist and obsessiveness in there too. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 07:52:48
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ElectraGlideMan
What is Naproxen ? A muscle relaxant ?
P. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 10:31:08
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Flyby,
I think Equate naproxen sodium is Walmart's generic brand for Aleve. |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 10:37:23
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
I wonder if athletes, espec runners are more prone to TMS than non-athletes. We are very body conscious for one thing, noticing symptoms non-athletes might ignore. And we have had long histories of injuries of one kind or another so we are fearful of reinjury. There's probably some perfectionist and obsessiveness in there too.
wrldtv -- I think you're right. Plus, as Sarno mentions in one of the books, running gets a bad rap -- I can't tell you how many times well-meaning people have warned me to stop running on concrete, take up power-walking instead, etc. All of that feeds right into the mindset that causes TMS. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:30:21
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Art,
The only time I'm stiff after any exercise is if it's a new exercise, working new muscle groups. Otherwise, I'd suspect TMS.
Mary |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 23:19:21
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| Vikki--I think you're right about running getting a bad rap. This is usually by non-runners, people who are sure all that pounding has got to be tearing up your knees. My own doctor said something like that last year when I mentioned I was training for another marathon. I actually had a knee x-ray about that time for something else and despite running on/off for about 28 years, the ortho said I had the knees of a 20 year old who had never run. Perfect! I think the reality is that as long as you don't have any significant structural problems running can actually strengthen your joints. |
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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 00:36:23
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Wrldtry and Vikki,
I don't believe that TMS is it any more prevalent in athletes versus non-athletes. I suppose that some of the personality characteristics in which many highly competitive athletes possess (highly driven, self-critical) may predispose them to some degree. However on the other hand, athletic people, particularly those who have been athletic most of their lives have likely experienced real injuries of one type or another along the way and have experienced the normal healing process over and over. They are used to having pain from overexertion, but know that this is temporary, and don't obsess over it. Non-athletic people may not have as many opportunities to experience this process nor learn to trust in it. Pain may be viewed very differently.
It would be interesting to examine more TMS research on this. We do know that any highly driven, conscientious, self-critical individual can be more prone to TMS, however you don't have to be an athlete to possess these traits. I'm speaking from personal experience as a highly driven, conscientious, self-critical non-athelete!
Curiosity |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 05:10:03
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I think it's important for us to keep in mind that not everything is TMS. When it comes to stiffness, maybe it's a matter of degree...Some stiffness after a hard run is undoubtedly normal,but how much?
I do feel that the stiffness I sometimes feel towards an end of a run is normal, just the accumlution of lactic acid etc. But on the other hand, I'm often extremely stiff the next day, with all kinds of TMS'y type stuff like minor plantar fasciitis pain and achilles stiffness...I'm thinking that really might be TMS...In any case, I've learned to not worry about the minor aches and pains..
Even the not so minor, like illiotibial band syndrome has melted away for me.
As a post script, yesterday I had a race with my girlfriend and we really pushed each other, but this morning I have almost no stiffness, so that's a very hopeful sign with respect to it being TMS... |
Edited by - art on 02/24/2006 05:12:28 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 12:37:06
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| Art--One thing regarding stiffness and soreness: latest research shows that these things are most prevalent, not the day after a hard workout, but up to 48 hours later. I'm not talking about a semi-hard workout, but one that pushes you beyond your usual. I've actually noticed this myself and wondered about it. Often I would be more sore a couple of days after a very long run than the day after. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2006 : 22:53:21
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| I found this previous post and it concerns me a bit because one of my main complaints is lack of range of motion or extreme stiffness in my neck for 7 weeks now, as many of you know...Looking up is impossible and turning right/left very tough as well..There is a constant stiffness in the upper right side of my neck...Occasionally it calms down during the course of a day which makes me think it is TMS...Why would it change like that within the same day, in other words? So I have been thinking Psychological whenever it gets extra tight...It is real, for sure...If anyone out there has had success in regaining range of motion in their neck after an acute TMS attack can you please share? I really am working hard to fully embrace the TMS diagnosis as many others are too, I am sure...Thanx... |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 07/12/2006 23:15:41 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 03:20:06
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| Singer, I believe Art is wondering is his stiffness is associated with his running, where yours is stiffness in the neck that has no associated activity. In other words your neck is not stiff from twirling it around in circles, but his stiffness is from running so he's questioning the TMS from that perspective. The kind you're referring to is from tension/anxiety, which I get on occasion and have beat 95% of it. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 07:54:56
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Hi Maryalma,
I realized what Art was talking about but wanted to see if there was anyone on here who had overcome neck stiffness and lack of range of motion associated w/ TMS...I didn't want to start a new topic because I am getting more uncomfortable doing that due to all the posts i have written recently...If you don't mind, can you tell me how you got to 95% better...Was it the usual reading the Sarno books, journaling, etc..Were you in psychotherapy w/ a TMS therapist and did you see a TMS doc for a diagnosis or do it on your own? How long did it take? I know everyone's progress is unique...Guess I just wanted to hear some neck success stories on here because mostly people are dealing w/ back issues...The biggest part of my tightness is in the upper right side and looking up is impossible...
Thanx,
Karen |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 12:29:54
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| I beat it just like the lower back pain, the buttocks pain, the occipital pain... by reading the books, doing the work that Sarno suggested, and having faith that I was doing the right thing. Repudiating the structural crapola that all the docs said was wrong with me. Putting my money where my mouth is basicly and not giving in to the usual responses from everyone else. It is acceptance basicly. That's about it! |
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stiffness
