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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2006 : 13:36:31
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Hey all. I just got "The Mindbody Prescription" from my library and have been reading it voraciously for a day or so. If my question is answered later in the book, I apologize.
I've had RSI involving the neck and back (thoracic outlet syndrome or chronic myofascial pain or fibromyalgia, depending on which medical pro you ask ) for over a year now. I fit qualities in the TMS candidate spot on and buy the theories as I read so far.
My question relates to symptoms of the "RSI". I type long enough and my arm goes numb, for example. Pain seems to be related to physical cause and symptomatic effect. Do less aggravating things = less pain, but the symptoms still are at best latent.
Is the activity cause leading to symptom effect a mental connection?Any comments on this from former RSI sufferers? I just wonder if this means I really have an RSI and that outrules the possibility of TMS.
Thanks! |
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 14:33:34
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To paraphrase my question, does the fact that 'doing certain things = more pain' rule out TMS? For example, more type = more pain and less type = less pain mean TMS is out?
I feel better symptomatically and in specific places after massage therapy too. Does that rule out TMS? |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 15:36:52
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It does not rule out TMS. You can become conditioned to feel pain from physical triggers, like typing or sitting or running or whatever. This keeps you in the mindset of thinking about the pain in a structural/physical way. I know Sarno discusses this (conditioning) in Healing Back Pain, and there may be a section later in Mindbody Prescription. I suffered from neck/arm/butt/leg -- basically all-over -- pain that various people have told me sounds like RSI, fibromyalgia, or just "chronic pain." Sarno's approach is the only thing that has helped me -- my pain is way down and I'm back to doing everything I used to do. You may find these pages on RSI and TMS helpful:
http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/
http://www.conquerrsi.com/
I always find it helpful to read other people's success stories, and these two pages helped me a lot.
Good luck! |
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leonard
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 15:56:27
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I'm certainly not as learned as others on the forum , but what I understand and what Dr. Sarno has said is TMS can manifest itself in many ways in people. The fact that it becomes more prevalent as you type doesn't at all disqualify it from being TMS. Your trigger is probably the typing , and your pain or numbness a conditioned response. The fact that it feels better after massage , as mine does as well , is more indicative that it is TMS.
There is an earlier post in which a forum patient was being examined by Dr. Sarno , and he stated , "all numbness is TMS ". However , I do believe he was speaking specifically of possible TMS type patients , and not of patients with a serious injury, etc.. There is a wealth of information on this forum , and if you go to "SEARCH" and type in numbness , RSI, or anything that concerns you ,you will find some very interesting threads. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 15:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by mhr74
To paraphrase my question, does the fact that 'doing certain things = more pain' rule out TMS?
If anything, it solidifies the fact that it is TMS.
One of the most important concepts of TMS is conditioning. We are conditioned to feel symptoms exactly when and where we expect them.
If you do a 'certain thing' that has caused pain in the past, you expect that thing to cause pain, so it does. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 21:08:20
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My pain started with tennis elbow in the right arm when i played guitar in Nov 04. Then i started gettin some neck pain while drivin my new car about the same time.
In Jan 05 both my arms went numb while playin guitar. I got a new job a really didnt want a week or so later and my neck and arms and upper back got worse, up to excruciating pain, as i tried to do the same office work (typing, filing, etc.) i've done for a long time. Acupuncture helped at first, but a couple runs of PT helped a little, as did seeing an LMT a few months back. He said I was like a big trigger point and everything needed stretched! I'm now at the point where I have to do different things for work and dump my hobbies that caused pain.
I tried all sorts of medical pros, as many here have. Some of the Strenghtening and stretching exercises my chiropractor recommended and PT ones I read about torqued my neck so bad I got dizziness and vertigo! Ugg. Similar exercises never cause problems when I was better.
Basically, the PT (a myofascial release guy) sees it as a postural and fascial problem. But the amount of body parts that are affected really piled on over time. The PT may help a little sometimes but sometimes its easy to overdo it and u know what that leads to.
So hear I am. Stuck in Pain-ville, where many of you have been b4, trying to sort out if it's in my head, a real postural issue that needs PT of sorts, or a combo platter of the 2. Ay carumba!!
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Edited by - mhr74 on 02/14/2006 21:30:34 |
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ferrisc
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 07:00:57
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I struggled with RSI for 4 years, and would get numbness, weakness and pain in my fingers and hands. Doctors and so called specialists all said that 'Maybe working with computers is not for me', and i too was told by a physio that I had Thoracic outlet syndrome.
The only treatment that has worked for me is being referred to Sarno's MindBody prescription by a friend. I am 90% better within 4 months of reading this, and doing the associated journalling etc.
I found it relatively easy to address whatever issues I had, but the conditioning that I had gained ( that when I type my hands will hurt) was the hardest thing to get over. The fear that typing lots would cause pain was still prevelant. Over time, and by re-reading Sarno's and other books this has gone. I have turned off my break software as this just served to remind me that I was different to others in someway. I have put away my voice recognition software and with a more carefree approach to typing have made some serious gains.
My thoughts would be that you haven't quite accepted that this is TMS problem as you are holding on to the thought that there is a structural issue. I read the book twice at first and re-read pertinent parts which struch a chord with me again and again when ever I doubted the concept. I still go back to it everynow and then today.
Stick with it as it really is worth it. |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 12:40:17
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I suffered from RSI for 7 years. Still can't believe I gave up my whole life for that long.
Today I type up a storm without any fear of injury.
Remember, the Brain is clever. It will do ANYTHING to convince you that you are "injured" or "weak".
Of course PT and stretching help. Not only do they force oxygen to a part of the body that you're brain has been depriving oxygen to, but they give you care and treatment. All of you - care and treatment. Including the irrational part of the brain that caused this.
Keep reading this board. If I can get well, anyone with TMS related RSI can. As of this posting, I for one don't believe in any RSI that isn't TMS related.
Best Wishes
Beth |
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 10:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ferrisc
I struggled with RSI for 4 years, and would get numbness, weakness and pain in my fingers and hands. Doctors and so called specialists all said that 'Maybe working with computers is not for me', and i too was told by a physio that I had Thoracic outlet syndrome.
The only treatment that has worked for me is being referred to Sarno's MindBody prescription by a friend. I am 90% better within 4 months of reading this, and doing the associated journalling etc.
I found it relatively easy to address whatever issues I had, but the conditioning that I had gained ( that when I type my hands will hurt) was the hardest thing to get over. The fear that typing lots would cause pain was still prevelant. Over time, and by re-reading Sarno's and other books this has gone. I have turned off my break software as this just served to remind me that I was different to others in someway. I have put away my voice recognition software and with a more carefree approach to typing have made some serious gains.
My thoughts would be that you haven't quite accepted that this is TMS problem as you are holding on to the thought that there is a structural issue. I read the book twice at first and re-read pertinent parts which struch a chord with me again and again when ever I doubted the concept. I still go back to it everynow and then today.
Stick with it as it really is worth it.
How did you go about in increasing activities which caused symptoms? Did you hop right in and slug through it, even when things get severe?
I just wonder if its wise for me to do a lot of activities that will spring up the TMS symptoms as I'm just starting on this if I don't have the wherewithal yet to talk a certain magnitude of pain down. |
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ferrisc
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 10:34:47
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My Advice would be to take things slowly, one step at a time.
The first few weeks, I just stopped using my voice software, and made sure I spent time each night journaling (with the TV off in a quiet room somewhere). After a while, I realised the software I had that forced me to take breaks simply served to remind me that I had a problem (which as we know now was just TMS). So...and I was about 6-7 weeks in now...I uninstalled this software.
At this stage I was still thinking in terms of days at a time, and assessing my pain and situation each day. Only recently, 3-4 months in, am I able to think in terms of weeks at a time and not concern myself with any residual discomfort I may have. You do really have to build on your progress each day, and each week and for me throwing myself in at the deep end and just typing with no regard for my problem was not an option. This would have killed my confidence.
I still use a Goldtouch split keyboard and a vertical mouse, but I don't go home everyday and worry that I have RSI, and sit in agony!
For me this is fantastic progress. It wasn't quite over night like some peoples stories, so stick with it and celebrate any progress you have.
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 11:29:41
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Any advice on the addition of activities? I would like to add activities like working out (figured i'd start on the exercise bike 10-15 min a day), playing guitar (maybe 15 min. a day to start), more reading and typing. After this long typing session I've been feeling the pain cranking it up on me.
Is it better for the psyche to just gradually increase these activites? Should I wait for symptom improvement to add these activities? Or hop in gung ho?
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Edited by - mhr74 on 02/16/2006 11:32:27 |
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n/a
560 Posts |
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 21:07:15
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| Any ideas on thinking thru symptoms when they get really bad or excruciating and it gets hard to concentrate? |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2006 : 14:09:34
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Hi mhr,
I had RSI for over 10 years and cured it last year using Sarno’s approach.
“More typing = more pain” is a trick your mind plays on you. See chapter 3 of “The Mindbody Prescription” (section entitled “Pavlovian Conditioning – Programming”). I recommend you get your own copy of the book, because you’ll need to read it over a few times over a period of time to become familiar with it.
The fact that you feel better after massage therapy certainly doesn’t rule out TMS.
I also recommend a gradual approach to increasing all your activities. Start off at a level you feel confident you can manage without pain (or with minimum pain) and slowly increase it. It may be best to focus on one or two activities (typing/mousing being the most important one) at first rather than overwhelming yourself with too many things at once.
Another useful site:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu
quote:
Any ideas on thinking thru symptoms when they get really bad or excruciating and it gets hard to concentrate?
I have no advice on that – except that by gradually increasing your activity hopefully you won’t have too many such incidents. It’s very hard to challenge the pain when it’s bad.
Good luck, and if you don’t get immediate results, DON’T GIVE UP. Reading Dr Sarno’s book gives the impression that your pain should go away as soon as you understand the concepts. Hopefully you’ll be one of the lucky ones for whom that is true – but for many of us that’s not the case, so don’t feel bad if it’s not the case for you. If you get doubts or need encouragement, post back here.
Hilary N |
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mhr74
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 11:37:30
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quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
quote:
Any ideas on thinking thru symptoms when they get really bad or excruciating and it gets hard to concentrate?
I have no advice on that – except that by gradually increasing your activity hopefully you won’t have too many such incidents. It’s very hard to challenge the pain when it’s bad.
Good luck, and if you don’t get immediate results, DON’T GIVE UP. Reading Dr Sarno’s book gives the impression that your pain should go away as soon as you understand the concepts. Hopefully you’ll be one of the lucky ones for whom that is true – but for many of us that’s not the case, so don’t feel bad if it’s not the case for you. If you get doubts or need encouragement, post back here.
Hilary N
Thanks all for ur help and info.
I've been able to talk my brain down w/ some minor symptoms, but the intense stuff is out of my league currently. Thinking my pain away is a weird feeling. Sometimes I'd think out symptoms in 1 place to have it pop up immediately somewhere else. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 11:41:42
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quote:
Originally posted by mhr74
Any ideas on thinking thru symptoms when they get really bad or excruciating and it gets hard to concentrate?
Accept that you cannot banish the symptoms at will, no matter how hard you try. Just take away their power by ignoring them and refusing to them them deter you from your normal activities. They will fade on their own.
Take a long-term view. This is a reconditioning process that takes time. Believe that in the long term, the chronic symptoms will fade and the acute attacks will be fewer and far between, and shorter in duration. |
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RSI and TMS?
