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geeta
USA
21 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2006 : 19:38:27
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has any one out there tried out rolfing or structural intergration to try and lengthen there muscles.
i belive what sarno is saying plays a part in people's muscle pain and my own muscle pain for that matter, but i don't think that it is the only cause of it
it can also be dangerous to carry on exercises through pain because you belive it is all in the mind
n davies |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 20:00:39
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Myofascial work is great to gain length in a leg that is shorter for instance, or real structural abnormalities...
structural integration can be beneficial to the patient if motor patterns are unfonctionnal due for instance to conditionned fear of pain (i.e. fearing pain while turning the head promote compensating with turning the whold chest which in turn encourage unhealthy motor patterns).
The more I am understanding TMS, the more I thing that increasing blood flow in the attacked muscles is the thing to start with as Pain will not stop without it.
To me now it is simply impossible to reeducate dysfonctionnal motor patterns efficiently if your muscles are constantly stressed by oxygen depletion ...
Hope this helps.
Pat |
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atg
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 20:10:30
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| I had twelve rolfing sessions for my back pain and felt no different afterward. She was a very prominent rolfer, but with what she actually did,I can't imagine it having any effect other than as a placebo. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 23:39:37
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| I agree with "atg". I had 10 sessions of rolfing in Boulder,CO (home of the Rolf Institute) about 28 years ago when it was the hip thing to do. Very expensive and very painful. Results? None that I could see. |
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lastlostmonkey
35 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 04:58:50
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Hi,
I find geeta's message a bit depressing. The point of Sarno's theory is that there is no structural reason for the pain. If you say 'it's a bit of both' then you are simply agreeing with the established medical opinion which says that stress exacerbates physical illness, any illness. Sarno advises that we exercise 'through pain' only when we are certain that there is no physical cause for that pain. If you read most of the posts on exercise on the board it is clear that when posters are certain and do exercise they either have pain to begin with which then goes away pretty quickly as they get into the session or they have no pain at all. Rolfing and structural integration are purely structural interventions. If you believe in TMS and believe that you have TMS you may as well eat two sheets of paper a day and call it a treatment. It will do just as much good.
Where is Peter with his big stick?
lastlostmonkey |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 05:30:46
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I had a course of Heller work before I came across Sarno (deep massage of muscles) for backache and poor posture due to scoliosis and it made an amazing difference. But, now think that was because I was under a great deal of stress at the time as both parents had been ill and that the treatment gave ME some kindly attention and someone uninvolved to talk to.
Anne |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 07:00:30
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quote:
i belive what sarno is saying plays a part in people's muscle pain and my own muscle pain for that matter, but i don't think that it is the only cause of it
If you go for rolfing for pain relief, or feel that you need to "lengthen your muscles" to get pain relief, then your mind is in the structural realm. You must accept that the pain has a psychological cause.
Sarno does not say to carry on "exercises through pain" .. in fact he dissuades any kind of exercises designed specifically for painful areas. But it is absolutely critical to resume normal physical activity in spite of the pain.
You really can't believe parts of Sarno's theory and then throw in physical interventions on top of it. The two are absolutely contradictory. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 08:58:14
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wow, as a new converted to TMS approach, I find this post very depressing
lastlostmonkey
I think you can never be '100% CERTAIN' there is ABSOLUTLY NO structural damage . That is what make the acceptance of TMS diagnosis soooooooo hard to do.
The only thing you can do is
1) Accept that you did pass all the reasonable tests to reject SIGNIFICANT structural damage
2) EVEN IF THERE IS STRUCTURAL DAMAGE IN THE TESTS, convince yourself that your moving symptoms, if any, CANNOT BE the result of the same 'structural cause'. It is TMS !!!
3) accept that your have the TYPICAL TMS personnality and that you MUST STOP REPRESSING in order to stay healthy
4) Accept that if your pain was directly related to any structural Damage, physical therapy, osteopathy, chiro, accupuncture, massage .. would just WORK !!!!!!
5) Accept that oxygen depletion is the FIRST THING to fight to get better, EVEN if there was ANY structural damage in your body
Based on ALL those factors taken alltogether, you have to make an act of faith on TMS and you MUST ASSUME fully to get better.
This is the way I am doing it and .... BY THE WAY ... I HAD MY FIRST 100% PAIN FREE TENSION RELEASE in months yesterday night around 11h PM ! It did last 20 minutes and it was just heaven.
This morning is just soreness and pain but it did prove me that despite any possible structural damage, pain CAN disappear using TMS approach !
Cheers
Pat |
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lastlostmonkey
35 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 09:20:48
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Hi,
yes, 'certain' was a poor word to use. Obviously you can never be certain, but there is a point where you start to think, 'hey, that's just not logical', e.g. my RSI-type pain is meant to be due to years of weak back muscles and poor posture. I have been exercising for a year, have much stronger back muscles, much better posture and was virtually pain free. So now why has the pain come back? It doesn't make structural sense.
I would argue with 'must stop repressing', you're on a hiding to nowhere if you take this approach. We can't stop repressing, it's the nature of the unconscious. We can just try to dig stuff out once it starts to cause a problem.
lastlostmonkey |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 09:37:17
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I fully agree with you ... our natural instinct is leanding to repression... I agree it is not wise to try to eleminate repression. I should have said somthing like '' not letting your unconscious repressing too deep using emotionnal awareness or something like that'' ..
Cheers
Pat. |
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Topic |
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Rolfing/structural intergration
