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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
 Posted - 12/30/2005 : 02:32:36
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It is just my deliberation about the break out of TMS.
According to Genesis, God wanted to protect people from the recognition between good and evil. I know it is only the metaphoric but it seems to me that this is the point.
The more moral we are the biggest are our emotions-the more susceptible to TMS we are.
So I think the problem came from exaggeration of moral aspect of the different life situation.
So I guess the treatment should include calming the “over-morality” down.
Do anyone has similar opinion? What do you think about this?
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:00:54
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| I think this could be true, especially since additional rules concerning morality will really piss off the id. For me, the addition of a spiritual life made me more emotional and probably more susceptible to TMS. When I lived my life only caring about me, I didn't care about anyone else and so I was less enrage unconsciously. There is a spiritual aspect to TMS, but we don't talk much about it here. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 14:19:16
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surely the answer isnt to be immoral?
Jill |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 15:03:50
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quote:
surely the answer isn't to be immoral?
'prolly not, but it might be fun to try it out, just to see what happens..
This is actually very interesting..."good" people are full of conflict. It's a terribly heavy burden trying to deny those things within us that we deem "bad" and "evil," like lust, and jealousy, and the all too human tendency to take pleasure in the difficulties of our fellows..schadenfraude I think is the word for it..(if I spelled that right it's a minor miracle..)
Truly bad people, sociopaths, extreme narcissists and the like, are relatively free from this kind of conflict..."Good" folk are riddled with neurosis (hence amenable to psychotherapy)..."Bad" people have character disorders...Instead of blaming themselves for their problems, they blame others. For this reason they are generally unreachable...They simply cannot be helped because they are unable to accept that there might be something wrong with them..I wouldn't be at all surprised if your garden variety sociopath has much less TMS than the goodists among us..IN fact, I'd bet on it..
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Edited by - art on 12/30/2005 15:06:49 |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2005 : 12:27:47
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I am glad that you are more or less sharing my view. But I am far from telling we suffer because we are goodish, because that would be price for being good. I will try to be more precisely describing my idea (maybe not only mine) We are born and we are gathering lots of memories (some people says that we remember even prenatal emotions) so they are as long irrelevant as long we are not shaping our morality. Growing we receive so many information in TV, Internet we can see every important event from all the world (lots of things are very dramatic). 80 years ago that was no chance for such a galore of information.
On the screen we can observe tragedy that we are not able to help in any way. Realising the tragedies we start to be scared about our families and about ourselves. So we need more care, we miss the love from parents (in spite that in many cases they really fulfilled their duties).
And finally we are unconsciously giving to the emotions stored in our mind new meaning. And the emotions starts to be vulnerable and TMS begins.
So this is not the question about being good or bad, it is question about overload of very emotional information which is shaping our morality. Does anybody agree with me?
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2005 : 17:18:05
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Well we are made up of so much. Everything around us influences us. We are comprised of a mind, body, and a soul. How our parents raise us is probably one of the biggest factors in our developing lives. I cannot ever remember my parents hugging me, telling me they love me, nurturing me. I've always felt that I was alone, like I needed to make things happen for myself. Combine that pressure with the pressure of school, fitting in with the other children at school, sports, etc. Then we get some pressure from the outside media. You know the ads that have the pretty women, the buff guys that some of us feel like we have to be like, look like in order for some us to to fit in. Our self esteems are shattered. Just so someone can get rich, they feed off people's insecurities. I would have to say that women are the biggest target, however in the last couple of years ads are starting to really hit men. T.V is a really big contributor to TMS pressure IMO. Lust is replacing love.
I guess I wouldn't say it is over-morality, I would say it's not enough morality. Everybody has a right to be loved. Whether one messes up, lies, breaks a dish, misses a touchdown pass, fails a test,etc. I think too many times we are judged by appearance, possessions, intelligence, looks, performance. . We stress over these things, we put pressure on ourselves to obtain them, and we miss the big picture. The greatest gift we have is LOVE. We miss it because it is not showed to us like it once was.
I guess I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but, we as people need morality. We love in a fear based society. In my 29 years of life I have fallien for so many lies and deceptions, that I want to live in TRUTH and LOVE. |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 04:17:55
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2scoops,
Thank you very much, but I think we are going in the wrong direction. If we ask the people on this forum who was hugged and fondled by parents, probably very big percentage would say “oh, we really weren’t”.
That was also mine, but I can not be silly any more because my parent gave me lots of opportunities. They have never said that they are proud of me, because when I was 16 years old they stopped understand me, my ambitions my political bias and so one. To bear parents a grudge for they haven’t done is like looking for the guilty of our TMS. Do you really believe that if you had been hugged in childhood life would be easier today? Let’s assume that we are living in closed society i.e. we know only people from our village. Parents do not hug us, are very demanding and we are growing and working a lot, but everybody do exactly the same. For us this is normal situation as long as we are not able to compare our life with the rest of the world. Then we are hearing or watching the situation where one father risks a life for a child or sacrifices a lot for the child happiness. And…we start to think “oh, come one, we have been perfect child and there was nothing like this and we are sure that nothing like this would happen. And big tension in our mind begins.
My friend’s father used to say “ there are no illusions there are no disappointments”.
Do you think the same?
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 08:12:37
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| For some people, overly strict religious upbringing can generate a lot of internal rage as these teachings and abundance of do's and don't can be seen as an imposition on the self. It is a major source of TMS for many. Sarno writes about this also. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 12:41:26
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I believe to have parents where you feel like you can open up to them is very important. If not your parents, then good friends, or a good spouse. It is very important to have someone, someone that will help us bare our burdens. We were not created to be isolated, we were meant to be social beings. I can only share my experiences. I have always been anxious, from my earliest memeory of four. I was shy, I was afraid to talk to someone else for fear that I would say something wrong, do something wrong, etc. I do not know where that came from. I have really never had any confidence in myself. Do I blame that on anyone, no. ButI am seeking the TRUTH. Forgiveness is something I know I need to work on. Sarno's theories have actually helped me come to some truths into my life that I need to work on and change.
As far as the saying of there are no illussions, no disappointments. I would have to say that I do not believe that saying. There are illusions, and there are disappointments. I guess it how we internally handle these disappoinments. I think sometimes we cover these disappointments up. Like Sarno said when we feel weak, we act strong. It's like we are afraid for someone to see the real us. I can only truly speak for myself.
Religion can be a big sopurce of TMS. Religion is man-made. I know this is not a board for the discussion of my faith. But I can say that church is a big part of my life. It has caused tension in my life because I was not living in TRUTH. Chrisitans are just as programmed and conditioned as the rest of society. I used to be self-righteous, judgemental, etc. Because I thought that I was more moral. If I saw a single mother, a drug addict, a homosexual,etc, I thought that I was above them. But that is not truth, and I was conditioned by my surroundings. Some of my tensions were created by a false reality. I got caught up in in trying to be so righteous, that I did not learn to love and forgive. I saw the bad in people. I never once stopped and found compassion on the drunk, the thief, the adulterer, etc. I judged them because they were not living in my standards. Is that wrong, absolutely. I never once stopped to think, maybe this person didn't have parents that loved them, were divoriced, were abused, were not shown truth in their life, and the list goes on. I can never know what is truly in someone's heart. But I lived with a lot of anger because of it. That's wrong, instead of living with anger and bitterness, I should have show those people love, and tried to bare their burdens with them. To get to a truth.
This has been so much more to me than just learning that I am a goodist. perfectionist, anxious person. It has allowed me to truly look inside and see how truly ugly and sinful I was and still am. I want to be able to forgive, to love the unlovable. I don't want this anger, bitterness, resentment anymore. I don't blame my parents for my TMS or my problems. I know my mother had a very critical mother and my father that had an unloving, critical father. I do applaud my parents for staying together, and that I am lucky they did not get diviroiced or fight in front of me. I am thankful my father worked and supplied all of my needs. But I am glad that I found out more about my parents and about myself, so I could learn some things about myself. That's what this is all about, knowledge, and finding the true cause of our physical pain. It lies in the mind. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 13:42:08
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[
Religion can be a big sopurce of TMS. Religion is man-made. I know this is not a board for the discussion of my faith. But I can say that church is a big part of my life. It has caused tension in my life because I was not living in TRUTH. Chrisitans are just as programmed and conditioned as the rest of society.
this isnt a religion board of course but faith in a God who loves me just as i am, warts and all, has been very freeing for me. As a Christian who believes I am accepted by God not because of what i have done, but because of what Jesus has done, i can rest and not stress about my relationship with Him. Thats ONE area i am not stressed in!
Jill |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 14:49:40
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Jill
But the discussion is not about those comforatble in their respective faith traditions, but the unconscious pressure religious teachings can place on an individual. The over excessive emphasis on the rules of do's and don'ts, while maybe not placing pressure on you personally, has been a major source of personal trauma for many. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 17:29:03
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peter said:
But the discussion is not about those comforatble in their respective faith traditions, but the unconscious pressure religious teachings can place on an individual. The over excessive emphasis on the rules of do's and don'ts, while maybe not placing pressure on you personally, has been a major source of personal trauma for many
you seem to be assuming all of us with faith in God have lists of rules and do's and dont's. my point was that is not what a relationship with God is. i think this is a valid discussion because spirituality is closely connnected with the mind/body issue. how we feel about ourselves, our God and how He sees us can indeed deeply affect the body and emotions. its not a list of rules and regulations but a love relationship:)believing this certainly must positively affect my peace of mind!
Jill |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2006 : 01:59:42
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If we are not faithful at all, we still should respect national legislations where are lot of “dos” and ”don’ts”. So we are still looking for a guilty.
For me religion is main part of my life and I am sure if some one has a tension connected with Christianity it’s mean that she or he does not understand Jesus at all. Son of God is full of love to all of people. I am asking where is the place of tension in it?
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2006 : 07:53:02
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gevorgyan i agree, to me it is a freedom from tension because i do not have to be good for Him to love me. there are no "do's and dont's". He loves me just as i am. cool huh what i do in my daily life is out of love for Him, not fear from Him. its a huge difference.
Jill |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2006 : 09:37:11
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| Today I’ve realised something concerned with my life and very significant for my TMS, but before describing this (and receiving answer “read Sarno once more”) I would like to be more assured in my invention, so let me ask you Jill and the rest of people: do you link the first TM syndrome with the large change of your behaviour? I mean that there was a life situation that made you change i.e. the way of expression, change in image or dramatically change outlook upon life??? |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2006 : 14:12:16
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gevorgyan, to me its seemed like this has been a way of life for me, not one particular life event that brought it on. i've always been anxious, high strung and prone to depression. i believe i carry my tension in the pelvic area, the way some people get headaches when they are tense. i've also had many other TMS symptoms.
Jill |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2006 : 16:27:13
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Hi all,
As a devout catholic with TMS, I would love to add my experience here.
Being a catholic involves me keeping the ten commandments, going to Mass on Sunday etc. going to confession. My religion teaches me that I was born with original sin and consequently must turn to God to help me deal with this every day. My original sin reveals itself in all sorts of ways - self- centeredness, jealousy, fear, gossip, dishonesty, not thinking of others etc. - the list is endless. I actually think of the unconsious as my original sin - the self centered child who does not want to think of others. I need as much help as I can get to deal with this sin - going to Mass, bi-weekly confession etc. helps me do this.
There is no doubt that practicing my faith really annoys my unconsious - it means putting others first and living a moral life. I am single and am celibate as part of being a christian - this is often tough for me - certainly doesn't make me popular when dating! I am often made fun of for my faith. Many of my friends think I am mad.
So - yes, this does feed into my TMS.
However - ironically, I have experienced amazing peace and removal of stress from practicing my faith. I only became catholic two years ago - up until that time, i was agnostic - had severe depression and addiction problems and was unbelievably miserable.
Recently, I started going to daily mass, spend longer in my prayers and pray a rosary almost every day - guess what - I have never felt so at peace in all my life. I just went home to England to see my family and many of you know that I have had a strained relationship wiht my mother. We had the best week ever. I ate whatever I wanted with no reaction from my body. I didn't even get acne or stomachache
I have noticed that my TMS pain has also gone away. So - this seems to be the opposite of feeding into the TMS pain.
I have to say, on a side note, that the key to recovering from TMS seems to be losing the fear of it. The fear is totaly conditioned response and needs to be broken in order for the TMS to switch off. |
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gevorgyan
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 02:41:04
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My congratulation Suz !!!
I am so glad that you have joined the Roman Catholics Church. I am a Pole like John Paul II. The whole Poland was in tears in last April and I am still crying when I remind myself his suffering and his attitude. …
Yes, this is true that our religion teaches that we should regret our anger and a rage, but doesn’t teach that we shouldn’t think of them. When we go confession, first we should be aware of all of so called “sins”. The older I am the more I am sure that not of all defined things are the sins. But this is only on my use.
For me my all my faith is in the St. Augustine’s words: “Love, and do what you want”.
Do not forget that God not only love but also trust us.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 09:19:15
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I have been patient with this thread, despite the fact that it borders on religious proselytizing.
Please keep on the topic of this forum. Thanks. |
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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 10:08:40
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Once again, Dave- thank you for your input. This "thread" certainly seems to repeat itself!
Curiosity |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 11:15:46
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Dave,
I can only speak for my own post - which was in no way evangelizing. It was simply a description of how faith and TMS work together - many people, I am sure, have to struggle with this.
S. |
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original sin and TMS
