| Author |
 Topic  |
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
 Posted - 12/29/2005 : 12:47:01
|
hi carolyn.....i agree with what you said....plus stress just plain physically exhausts you and that doesnt help things. i was feeling poorly the past few days, from sinus problems. i finally dragged myself out of the house to go shopping. i felt much better while walking around.
Jill |
 |
|
|
johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 14:15:48
|
The book "back sense" does a pretty good job of explaining the relationship of stress to chronic conditions. On this board, I have been guilty of attributing the cause of TMS and equivalents to stress. While I don't think this is technically wrong, it is not the whole story--stress is an integral part of the chronic pain/fear cycle, but not necessarily the origin with a big O.
Remember that stress is a response to stimulus, it has less to do with specific externals. If an event occurs that I find to be "stressful", then my body may respond unconsciously with the fight or flight response (not relaxation). This will cause muscles to tense, making me anxious, etc., making me more tense, etc., on an on. When this occurs long enough, the tension will turn into pain and, poof, TMS occurs. The unconscious emotions are the cause, but it's the stress that makes the physical symptom occur. I think someone else eluded to that.
Just my 2 cents, anyway this is definitely splitting hairs, but I wouldn't take too much issue with someone who attributes their pain to stress, since my own opinion is that, as a short hand way of symbolizing complicated processes, all psychosomatic illnesses are basically stress-induced. |
|
|
|
yowire
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 20:21:54
|
We all face stress every day. We cannot avoid it. If you believe your symptoms are caused by stress than you are guaranteeing that when you come upon a stressful situation you will get symptoms. This will become a conditioned response if its not already.
Dr. Sarno's program is all about foiling the brain's strategy and reconditioning the mind. If you don't even believe that the brain has a strategy but instead feel that, consciously, you just can't handle stress, than I just don't see how you can even apply Dr. Sarno's therapeutic plan.
Yowire |
|
|
|
johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 09:50:39
|
| In my mind, believing that stress "causes" problems is synonomous with a psychogenic cause. It's the reaction that I try to change by applying Sarno's techniques and attempting to elicit a relaxation response instead of a fight or flight response. It's been working pretty well for me as I have about a 98 or 99% recovery from debilitating back pain about now. Lately I've had a big decision to make regarding employment and it has caused my brain to substitute an asthmatic type cough with a tickle in the throat intead of back pain. But other than that, I couldn't be happier with my progress--the stress vs repressed emotions thing doesn't pose a problem, it's really the same thing to me, I know the cause is ultimately repressed emotions. |
|
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:43:30
|
johnny my pain also came on as i attempted to go back to work after years of being a stay at home mom. i needed the job to get out of a bad marriage. just as i got the guts to take steps to do that, BAM...i'm in such pain i cant sit, which is bad if you are secretary. i think i am making some progress in this however.
Jill |
|
|
|
Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2005 : 18:06:30
|
Yowire,
I completely agree with your comments on the potential for conditioning yourself to feel TMS pain with stress. It is no different than conditioning yourself to have pain after a rigorous physical activity. It is a challenging issue to tackle in that it becomes strengthened through an accumulation of stressful, but innocuous events. For example, I am finding that I cannot even visit my family of origin without developing physical symptoms before hand. Although I have known about TMS for over 10 years now (in addition to being in therapy with a TMS therapist), I feel that this particular problem is getting worse for me. I think that through the course of treatment, in which I confronted many of my childhood demons, the connection between family and pain became reinforced. This has also been occurring more in other stress-producing situations my life. Carolyn, you stated that you are less able to deal with stress more and more over time. I'm not sure if by that you meant that your TMS symptoms become worse with stress. Could this also be possibly a learned/ conditioned response? I would really appreciate any feedback on this from those of you who have made this connection for yourself, as well as any strategies that have been helpful in unlearning/deconditioning the "stressful events lead to pain" cycle.
Curiosity
|
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 08:35:37
|
Note that we internally generate the stress. Many times, stress has more to do with personality traits than it has to do with outward stimuli. I want to here re-post this parable by way of illustration:
In order to escape the stresses of life a man retreats into a cave where he vows to spend the rest of his days meditating and seeking inner peace and tranquilty. A few days later he emerges from his sanctuary saying the dripping water inside of the cave was driving him damn near crazy and he could not take it anymore.
The source of his stress and anxiety was not his outward circumstances, the problem was in fact inside of himself.
|
Edited by - n/a on 01/01/2006 08:37:19 |
|
|
|
Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 09:08:54
|
What I meant by feeling like I have a lowered tolerance for stress is just that I am more aware of stress than I used to be- I experience stress under conditions where I formerly would have been able to brush things off. I just feel closer to the edge all the time. I generally experience stress as anxiety, restlessness and becoming short-tempered with those around me.
I suppose my TMS symptoms which do pop up under stress could be a conditioned response. My pain first developed during a 'real' physical illness but persisted long after the physical problem was resolved. The illness was very stressful and I probably do link stress with pain. Perhaps the pain also gives me an excuse to go easier on myself- or a way to tell my subconscious or 'ego' that it's not that I emotionally can't cope with stress, its that I can't cope with the physical pain. After all, society is much more accepting of physical weakness than emotional weakness.
I like your parable Peter because I know that I am creating most of my own stress from within and that may be my biggest problem. If I objectively look at my life now, it has less stress in it than it has had at any point since childhood and yet I am always stressed-out. I think as much as I react negatively to the stress, I am sort of a stress junkie- I don't quite feel right without it so I keep generating it.
Carolyn |
|
|
|
n/a
560 Posts |
|
|
Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 13:36:03
|
Thanks Peter- I went to the web site and took the assesment. I thought all most all of them applied to me- except for being shy becaue I am actually pretty outgoing. Also- a lot of the characteristics about getting overstimulated by noises and too much to do are things I have only seen come up in me as an adult. But I'm goint to get the book becaue it may have something to offer me.
Carolyn |
|
|
|
ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2006 : 18:12:57
|
I don't think this is an "academic distinction." I think Dave is trying to point out gently to Jill that she is in denial about her repressed emotions, probably from childhood, which are at the root of her symptons.
The fact that they are repressed means that they are not conscious and not available to her consciousness. And her defensiveness about this should give her a clue that maybe something deeper is there, that maybe she could think about or reflect on, which might lead to some good insights and some more progress in her recovery.
Just my take on this. Please don't be offended, Jill.
Ralph |
|
|
|
Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2006 : 04:28:45
|
The stress/anger/annoyance can be caused by HAVING to do something which you wouldn't otherwise do. eg HAVING to be the breadwinner of the family, HAVING to go out to work when you didn't choose to previously, HAVING to go to school (as a child), HAVING to cook Xmas dinner for 12. And then wrongly thinking that you are suffering more stress in your life when what is happening is that your goodist traits are being exposed for what they are and things you once did without a qualm now generate annoyance/anger.
A way to improve things is to give much thought to finding good aspects to what you have to do - eg you might meet some new and interesting people at your work and you will value the time you have at home more etc etc |
|
|
|
jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2006 : 07:51:25
|
ralph i'm not offended....or defensive lol...i just dont agree with dave. i think that i have chronic pelvic pain in response to stress. some people get headaches, some backaches, i get pelvic pain. not all will agree and thats fine. to me it doesnt really matter if its stress or repressed rage or whatever. the main thing is to realize it isnt physical. thanks for the input!
Jill |
|
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2006 : 08:02:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by jilly_girl
the main thing is to realize it isnt physical.
This is absolutely true.
However, it's not the only thing. If you get long-term relief based on your simplified view of TMS, that's great. If not, you may want to reconsider accepting Dr. Sarno's viewpoint. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Endometriosis/Chronic Pelvic Pain and emotions
