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Juno
Canada
11 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2005 : 17:02:34
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Hi
I am a newbie here and have had suspicions of TMS since reading Dr. Sarno's book (only read the healing back pain one). I decided to find out more after receiving a diagnosis of herniated disc causing sciatica.
Is the main idea that EVERYONE with this type of condition (including the others mentioned in the book) has TMS? Does no one have a structural problem?
I have no problem believing that these problems can be caused by stress but more of a problem believing that you can recover just by knowing about it.
I have had my sciatica pain for quite some time (flares up every few months) and read Dr. Sarno's book about 6 weeks ago, during the current flare up. I was coming to the end of my tether but decided to put off going to the doctor until after my vacation, because I thought that if it was TMS it might have improved on vacation, however it didn't. Would this be due to underlying skepticism...?
I do suspect TMS in my case simply because I consistently get this type of condition- I've had knee and shoulder tendinitis, costochondritis, metatarsalgia and so on. I have managed to remain very active despite this, however. I have also had depression and an eating disorder in my teens, and I know the root cause in these cases and have never suffered from this type of problem again, but it seems that TMS could be an alternative manifestation.
Anyway, thanks for reading, I will continue to peruse this site, but if anyone could answer my question about whether ALL of these types of problems are TMS, that would be great.
Thanks! |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 19:05:14
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Dr. Sarno is convinced, based on his years of clinical practice, that herniated discs are not the source of the pain. Based on the evidence he provides and the fact that many people walk around pain-free despite the fact they have herniated discs is rather convincing. What is even more convincing is that people with this condition get better with TMS treatment. In addition sciatica is a common manifestation of TMS. I suggest you read the sections in Dr. Sarno's books on these conditions and fully understand what he has to say about this. Your brain will choose an area in the body where there is an "abnormality" in order to throw you off track in order to make you think that the source of the problem is physical when in fact the ultimate source of your pain lies deep in your repressed emotions.
Best wishes |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 19:05:40
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I think you have got a fairly good grasp of what tms is all about and it is only natural that you pose the questions that you have.
I think that what Sarno says is that we may have started off with some kind of physical or structural problem that ought to get better with time coz the body has an amazing ability to heal itself. Most of the structural findings taht we are presented with have been in our bodies for a long time already but most doctors will use those as reasons for pain.
The fact that we have ongoing and lingering pain suggests that there are othet underlying reasons. The brain (clever that it is) has somehow decided to seize this opportunity to keep you in pain. When this happens the only way to break the cycle of pain is to focus on on trying to understand why the brain is doing this. To get rid of the pain you musrt therefore try to find out what is bothering you and find out the root cause of the problem which is related to something other that the structural findings that most doctors will diagnose. That is the work that is required.
The fact that you have had the pain for as long as you have suggests that it is probably tms. Sometimes the fear of pain, the stress of having to deal with it and all kinds of terrifying thoughts that it will get worse and lead to disability etc. etc. make it even worse as it did for me till I read Sarno and saw the pain for what it really was.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 11/21/2005 19:06:57 |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 19:59:35
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Dr. Sarno discusses herniated discs beginning on page 100, and concludes: "My conclusion that most disc herniations are harmless is based on seventeen years (by 1991) of treating patients with a high degree of success, leading to the impression that the extruded material is not hurting anything; it's just there."
In another book I read recently, To Be or Not To Be... Pain-Free, Dr. Marc Sopher explains better why TMS is commonly misdiagnosed by ordinary doctors.
"With the availability of CT and now MRI scanners, it is possible to obtain remarkable images of the body. That is the good news. The bad news is that many of these images will be reported as abnormal - one study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that greater than 60% of spine MRIs showed abnormalities, the same percentage in those without pain as with pain. Virtually every person over 20 who has a spine MRI will be told they have degenerative disc disease, disc herniation, degenerative changes, or some other abnormality. As these findings are present equally, no matter whether symptoms exist, it is Dr. Sarno's and my contention that these are incidental, rarely the cause for pain. Unfortunately, physicians are taught to find a physical cause for physical symptoms and thus tell their patients about their "back problem.""
"Being told that you have a "problem" or "condition" can aid the "nocebo response." This is the opposite of the placebo response. With a placebo, belief in a worthless remedy can provide relief, almost always temporary, due to the desire to be well and faith in the value of the remedy. With a nocebo, symptoms will persist or intensify as a result of being informed, incorrectly, that a significant defect or problem is to blame. This is a critical part of conditioning - coming to believe that certain actions, circumstances, or aspects of the environment are the cause of symptoms, when in fact the cause lies in the mind." pp. 53-54.
Hope this helps.
Ralph
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Juno
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 06:24:22
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Thanks for your responses, they are helpful.
That is interesting about the same percentage of abnormalities in people with and without pain.
Also interesting that medical advice for back pain is almost completely the opposite of TMS advice...
One more question...
Discontinuing all physical treatments...Can it hurt to improve your posture, or is that catering to the problem? Seems to me that good posture is a reasonable goal in itself, but would be hard to separate out from "getting better"... what do you think? |
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 13:56:22
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I think improving your posture can't hurt. But to the extent you allow yourself to believe that "there's something physically wrong with my back," you are giving TMS a place to hide, and this belief must be repudiated. The belief that "my back is fine," is important to maintain.
Ralph
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Becca
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 14:32:37
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I disagree with sarnos advice to discontinue all physical treatments. The pain is coming from muscles-from being to tight,weak etc. If you have had pain for any extended lenght of time, your patterns of movement are going to be consciously and subconsiously altered, which leads to tight and underused muscles. I have found that it is helpful to realize that there is nothing structurally wrong with my back (despite the MRI findings), but my muscles hurt. Stretching and strenghtening them makes them feel better. Since getting my "diagnosis" of a bulging disc as the reason for my pain- I have spent almost a year tense and terrified, and favoring my right side. The result-abnormally tight muscles all over and noticeably overdeveloped weak muscles on the leaft side-so much that my posture has changed, with my weak arm and shoulder resting a full two inches lower than my stronger left shoulder. I find that paying attention to this and straightening up greatly reduces the stress I feel in my upper back.
My point-However the problem started-an injury or just pure stress, it should have healed, but it didn't. Convinced that I had a terrible injury, I started altering my patterns of movement out of fear. Over time added a physical dimension to the problem. By ignoring this fact, and just trying to treat the emotional component is not going to solve th eproblem 100%.
I recently found a book that does a good job of combining both the physical and emotional aspects of badck pain-I'd highly recomend it-"Healing Back Pain Naturally" by Art Brownstein.-R |
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Becca
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 14:35:21
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I disagree with sarnos advice to discontinue all physical treatments. The pain is coming from muscles-from being to tight,weak etc. If you have had pain for any extended lenght of time, your patterns of movement are going to be consciously and subconsiously altered, which leads to tight and underused muscles. I have found that it is helpful to realize that there is nothing structurally wrong with my back (despite the MRI findings), but my muscles hurt. Stretching and strenghtening them makes them feel better. Since getting my "diagnosis" of a bulging disc as the reason for my pain- I have spent almost a year tense and terrified, and favoring my right side. The result-abnormally tight muscles all over and noticeably overdeveloped weak muscles on the leaft side-so much that my posture has changed, with my weak arm and shoulder resting a full two inches lower than my stronger left shoulder. I find that paying attention to this and straightening up greatly reduces the stress I feel in my upper back.
My point-However the problem started-an injury or just pure stress, it should have healed, but it didn't. Convinced that I had a terrible injury, I started altering my patterns of movement out of fear. Over time added a physical dimension to the problem. By ignoring this fact, and just trying to treat the emotional component is not going to solve th eproblem 100%.
I recently found a book that does a good job of combining both the physical and emotional aspects of badck pain-I'd highly recomend it-"Healing Back Pain Naturally" by Art Brownstein.-R |
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Juno
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 16:35:33
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thanks for the feedback guys.
I'll look out for that book. I think I agree with you Becca, you (um, one) must get into some pretty bad habits to avoid pain, can't hurt to get everything into shape.
Juno |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 18:06:45
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I had sciatica pain in both legs from my hips to my ankles. It was so bad that I had to use a cane and could only walk a few steps at a time. I even had a disabled card for my car. That was the summer of the year 2000. Thanks to Dr.Sarno, I have been pain free since then. It is so difficult to believe that this horrible, severe, and very real pain can be emotionally induced. It is. Once you accept it, you are pain free. Of all the postings on this forum about sciatica, I believe that every one who made a posting about sciatica became pain free. You can also. Best wishes.
Allan. |
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new idea for me
