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luke
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2004 : 18:40:49
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Hello folks,
I just wanted to drop in after I "accidentally" found this site a couple of weeks ago. I have been a TMS patient for about 10 years now after reading Dr. Sarno's book and going through his lectures in NYC. It took about 6 or 7 weeks for his lectures and his book to sink in. I had very severe back and neck pain about 10 years ago and it was excruciating. I thought I was going to be crippled for the rest of my life. Every once in a while it still rears it's ugly head but then I usually hit the books and it helps a lot. Being in a stressful job right now doesn't help as there's a little pain but it's not too bad.
The interesting thing that I wanted to share with you is that I can trace TMS back to the time when I was 21 years old (I'm 57 now) and was having some unexplained pain which I now know was TMS. It was pain in my upper trapezius (spelling?)which is the burning kind which I am sure some of you may be aware of. Anyway this burning would only come on when I was forced to work overtime and put in extra hours when I did not want to do it. I'm convinced that this affliction is responsible for my allergies and ringing in the ears also.
Another thing I've noticed about TMS is that it seems to travel to an area of injury or stress. It seems to want to "hide" in those areas and not be found out. Sounds crazy but that is my conclusion.I had a root canal done on my tooth and I'm sure there was a TMS component in that because I felt that familiar burning pain for weeks after in my TMJ area. I hit the books and it was gone pretty much the next day. The mind is a very powerful thing.Well I just wanted to touch base with you all and say that the whole thing is harmless (but painful).
The last but not least thing I wanted to share was the spiritual element of the whole thing. Ten years ago when the worst of the pain hit I prayed about it and I believe I got the answer when I walked into a bookstore and bought John Sarno's book. God knows our hurts and our situations. Even the very hairs on our heads.
Stay well...........Bill
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ark
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 19:56:19
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Just as an extra jolt of encouragment for those in need: I can backup Luke's story 100% with my own. I also saw Sarno (14 yrs ago) after several years of excruciating pain and fear (doctor induced). I saw three of "the best" orthopedic surgeons in NYC who all declared my back hopeless without surgery (ruptured disk, herniated disk, sciatica, scoliosis). One of them exclaimed it would be physically impossible for me to get any relief without surgery. When I suggested maybe some alternative, like exercises, he shook his head and scribbled something in my chart. When he stepped out for a minute I peaked in the chart...he had written "patient suggests exercise...LUDICROUS!" I walked out. Later I somehow found out about Dr. Sarno and made an appoointment. I think there was a 2 month wait to see him and during that time I read the book and worked with a friend who did similar mind/body work. I thought he was a fruitcake and took every opportunity to tell him so but hey, it worked. And by the time I got to the the lectures I was painfree (and a believer). I've had a few bad flair ups over the years (like now) but they never lasted long. This is the first time I've had to reach out for the book again--but it's been a rough year and I've been ignoring a lot of stuff. I know this will lift when I'm ready to let it go.
Thanks for listening.
Good luck to all.
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 12:47:45
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Luke, or is it Bill?
Welcome to the forum. First of all I don’t think it is an accident that you came here, I believe you’re here to be helped and encouraged through your final bout with TMS. You will also be able to help others along the way.
It is good to see that you have an understanding of TMS and to already have known what were your triggers where. At least you could associate them to the manifestations and work on letting them go as you do your personal work to recovery.
You seem to be positive and know who is ultimately in control. Once we learn to yield back over our burdens we will be restored.
quote:
The last but not least thing I wanted to share was the spiritual element of the whole thing. Ten years ago when the worst of the pain hit I prayed about it and I believe I got the answer when I walked into a bookstore and bought John Sarno's book. God knows our hurts and our situations. Even the very hairs on our heads.
Stay well...........Bill
I like what you have said and it is awesome you have made a mind/body /spirit connection.
I believe this is a key element of what we all long for, to fill the emptiness that is in all of us.
This is what contributes many of our insecurities from our inner emotions that get bottled up and come out in physical manifestations. The emotions, such as fear, anxiety, anger, rage discontentment manifest to, depression, loneliness, with the felling of abandonment. In return we often have the need for approval from others, which if not satisfied they become irrational, out of balance which causes perfectionist and do-gooder type personality traits in most of us.
Perhaps this is the void that we are all looking to fill, and the distraction becomes the replacement.
But we look to other things to satisfy these needs, so they are only temporarily fulfilled .It is similar to one who takes drugs to fill an identity or emptiness inside that is looking to be filled.
I read an article about “THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS” and I would like to share it.
In 1948,Life magazine brought together a group of labor union representatives, industrial leaders, university scholars, and clergy to discuss what the framers of the United States Constitution had in mind when referred to the “pursuit of happiness.”
They agreed that steady work under good conditions at a living wage was absolutely essential. Some included the values of racial fairness, unselfishness, and integrity.
This led one participant, a brilliant young woman who had been crippled by polio, to say, “It is my experience that suffering and pain are unfortunately, great character builders-not that suffering is good in itself, but because it often helps to shift our expectations of happiness from without to search for it within.”
True, and when we search to find inner contentment, we open up ourselves to respond- we now become available to start a real relationship with our maker. Sometimes it takes a tragic experience illness, sickness or even chronic pain to bring us to this point. This leads to change while finding out many of our purposes and fulfilling what we were intended for.
This TMS could be a blessing in disguise. It forces you to take a second look within and settle some of life’s most critical issues. How many people do you really know, who can honestly say they have found inner contentment and the “pursuit of Happiness” we are all looking for? 
I spoke long distance over this weekend to a fellow Tms'er of the board. He has recovered well for two years now. He said “we don’t realize at the time we pray for delivery of pain, why we must go through the refinement process for healing.  But later we are thankful for the timing in our answered prayer.  
Always Hope For Recovery
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 05:31:43
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Hi everyone,
Luke or Bill.....it doesn't matter. I'm of the opinion that the root
cause of TMS is anger and fear as Dr. Sarno says. The emptiness and void that you mentioned that is in all of us was (is) put there by our Creator (Who we all need to be reconciled to, by the way).
I've heard it said and I believe it.....is that there are 3 basic
human needs that everyone has and they are:
1. The need to be loved
2. the need to be significant
3. the need for security
I just think that all of our anger and fear are emotions (destructive as they can be) that come out of the conflict of trying to obtain the above 3 goals in a world that is self-centered.
The answer?
1. be redeemed and reconciled to God first
2. be willing to face the worst of your emotions head on -
that takes courage.
3. be persistant - let's run this race to the finish line!
Best of health to you.............Bill |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 07:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by luke
I'm of the opinion that the root
cause of TMS is anger and fear as Dr. Sarno says.
Actually I don't believe Dr. Sarno says that.
TMS is really just a bad habit we developed in response to another bad habit: repressing our emotions. It's not surprising to me that religion often pops up on this forum, because I believe that highly religious people can sometimes grow up in highly repressed environments. However, "curing" TMS is really about reconditioning; breaking old habits. There is really no need to make it more complicated than that.
In fact, I would go out on a limb here to say that some highly religious people may have a handicap when it comes to fighting TMS. For one thing, maybe they cannot fully accept that they are in a blind rage inside. There are some pretty ugly emotions living in our unconscious, and those emotions may be unacceptable in many religions. On another level, some religious people put their blind faith in a higher power, and in some ways that absolves them of responsibility for their own recovery.
Please don't get me wrong; I'm not talking about anyone specifically, I am making broad comments. And I certainly don't want to start (nor will I allow) a religious debate. I am simply pointing out that sometimes people make TMS more complicated than it really is. We have been conditioned to have symptoms. Those symptoms protect us from feeling negative emotions that are deemed dangerous to experience. The "cure" lies in reconditioning ourselves, which is a matter of repetition and time. (1) Learn to feel and un-learn repression; (2) Do not allow the symptoms to distract us; use them as a signal to explore our emotional state. |
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 08:07:07
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We're saying the same thing here Dave although in different terms
with the exception of your conditioning idea. I like it and maybe it's the other part of the cure. I will explore the idea.
Thanks.............Bill |
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 11:05:17
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Hello everyone,
Well I looked at all the postings on conditioning and I agree on Dave's point that a part of the cure is re-conditioning one's repressing of emotions.
However I believe in a mind-body-spirit approach to TMS or to any health problem for that matter.
After all if it was just a matter of re-conditioning one's thought's
would'nt one become just a "programmed robot"? (sorry couldn't find the right words with the amount of time I have here).
No, we are more than that however I am sorry if I offended anyone
with my theological views (even though they're right) I will be more careful about the choice of words in the future.
Stay well.........Bill |
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MidwestJim
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 11:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by luke
No, we are more than that however I am sorry if I offended anyone
with my theological views (even though they're right) I will be more careful about the choice of words in the future.
Luke/Bill - You read Dave's (this board's moderator) message that a religious debate will not be allowed, and so you decide to initiate one anyway?!? |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 13:42:34
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Dave,
As the Board's moderator, I thought you had made it pretty clear that this board was a place where one can discuss freely the TMS theory in whatever capacity - as long as people are respectful to one another. You have allowed messages focusing purely on the structural which in a way refutes the whole theory of TMS. It makes me really upset that you are not taking the same open minded attitude toward a spiritual approach to the theory. I don't think that Luke is saying that he argues with the TMS theory - he is just incorporating a spiritual aspect in addition to his work - just like people here have expressed the way they add special physical exercises to the theory.
I really believe this shows a form of prejudice.
I have been practicing John Sarno's theory with now 100% success - it has been 3 months and I am entirely out of pain. I did all of the journalling, read both books, went to two lectures and I decided to delve into psychotherapy - but with a therapist through my church. I discuss all my personal angers/childhood in the context of my faith and I have incorporated prayer - the results have been amazing. I was in crippling pain for 12 years - last year unable to walk. One can combine the two. For me, it was when I started the therapy that things really turned around.
This has just been my experience
thanks and welcome again to Luke
Suz |
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MidwestJim
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 14:23:08
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Suz - There's a critical difference that I don't believe you're catching. You're sharing *your* experience that religion mixed with TMS works well *for you*. IMHO, perfectly valid, just like incorporating structural work with TMS is perfectly valid message board discussion.
However, Luke/Bill expressed to *everyone* that his theological views are "right" and that *our* answer is to be "redeemed and reconciled to God first".
In short, I respect others' right to believe anything they want, but will always refuse to be evangelized to. That line is what I believe (and hope) that Dave is referring to. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 14:54:00
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Jim,
Oh - I see what you are saying - I didn't take it in quite the same way. I went back and reread Luke's post - yes it does come across as really preaching. I have a strong faith but I do not believe one can force that on anyonelse. I do apologize to Dave and all
Suz |
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 16:21:56
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Oops sorry guys I didn't realize the rules here. I was only stating my beliefs and did not intend to evangelize anyone. As the topic states I'm a newbie to this board.It was only my personal opinion. Besides I refuse to discuss the core of my faith.But that out of the way and forgotten for discussion's sake I think I can relate to Suz's experience. Having gone through all the counseling in past years about family issues,stress and all that stuff including a book called "The Search for Significance" (no I don't sell books - LOL) I really don't know if that helped the most or whether it was Sarno's lectures that was most beneficial. All I'm trying to say here is what Suz has said in a way that has been better than mine (and less offensive) is that there is a spiritual connection to all this that bears at least searching out if anyone is inclined to. Heck even Sarno and Schecter
admit they don't have all the answers. They even say the diagnosis may change in 100 years or so. I would think most of you all would agree that most doctors these days are clueless when it comes to TMS. Did Sarno hit the diagnosis exactly on target with 100% recovery? I think not. Do I have all the answers? heck no! There is a lot we don't know about the world around us let alone what makes us tick. Sarno's theory worked great for me but I'm only about 90% cured. Why get a heart bypass when you can get a heart transplant?....yikes...maybe I should've used another example!
Let's face it.....life is a journey, I repeat journey. Things and diagnosis's that make sense today may not make sense in the future. Let's be short-sighted enough to see a diagnosis and freedom from pain that works today but far-sighted enough to see maybe another aspect of life (and maybe healing)that we may have been neglecting all this time.
Stay well............Bill |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 17:08:50
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| Luke, I'm reading you OK. I don't find you overly preachy. If spirituaity and religion is a big part of your life and you can incorporate it into speeding your TMS healing, then that's a good thing. I would think whatever means a person could utilize to access their true inner feelings would be a useful tool for TMS work. For some it may be meditation for others religiious based principles. I'm a tennis zealot. I guess one could say it's my religion for now. I think sports can transform one to a state of spirituality, inner calm and a feeling of oneness with the universe. I've often felt a feeling of heightened awareness during sports activity. |
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 06:02:51
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That's great Tom. In my case I find exercise to be a RELIEF from pain.
I guess that's the opposite of what's "normal" in TMS although there's probably no such thing as normal. It's when I am NOT exercising that a little pain starts. I can't stand to be totally inactive; it just goes against my grain. When I am running or even walking I have no pain at all with the exeption of a strange thing that happened a few months back. I began to have very painful heel pain that made me want to stop my exercise. I went to the doctor and they didn't know what was going on. To make a long story short I chalked it up as TMS and it went away in 3 weeks. There's a lot of information and diagnose's out there on heel pain. I think a lot of it is just TMS. People could save a whole lot of money if they accept this theory. As I said it's when I am inactive that I have pain. Take sleeping for example. I wake up (sometimes exactly to the minute)several times at night with the need to urinate. Frequent urination is mentioned in Sarno's book as a TMS symtom. It think there's a lot to that idea but doctor's around here just want to give out pills. You've seen the ads on tv for those drugs. I think it's just a matter of conditioning as Sarno (and Dave) has alluded to. If one expects pain in certain situations guess what happens? I will try the conditioning "therapy" or whatever you want to call it (it's just a matter of words) next time I wake up at night though will do so groggily (LOL).
Take care ..............Bill |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 08:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by luke
In my case I find exercise to be a RELIEF from pain.
I guess that's the opposite of what's "normal" in TMS although there's probably no such thing as normal.
Yes, there is no such thing as normal with TMS. Everybody is different.
However, Sarno does state that exercise can provide relief, because it increases blood flow to the affected areas. I'm not so sure I believe that explanation; I think it might simply be due to endorphins being released, plus the psychological benefits of feeling good about yourself that exercise brings. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 14:02:36
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I went fishing yesterday and wasn’t aboard the forum. I wanted to leave this alone but find it hard, not to try to defend my position, (my own personal faith) but to help people to understand about an area of TMS that is not discussed openly.
Because of heated debates and or offending ones personal value system that makes it uncomfortable to discuss and explore much in this area.
I agree Religion is a dirty word, and many religions of the world have perverted their belief system, and forced many people to believe what they do. In fact many countries will execute you if you do not conform to their religion. Many people died and were martyred all in the name of religion. But we are not talking religion here. We are trying to explore the spiritual side of TMS and if we like it or not there is a spiritual side.
Emotions don’t just play a role that make us be vulnerable to a religious view, emotions can get overwhelmed and out of balance, but these are real feelings, not to be avoided and we have them for a good REASON.
Emotions are deeply rooted to a spiritual component and serve as purpose to communicate a responsibility to ourselves, others and to our maker.
What causes us to feel guilty, or have a sense of contentment within our thoughts?
How come we have sorrow or feel grief when we do something wrong, or when someone wrongs us?
Why do we experience remorse with the death of a loved one?
And why do these emotions get repressed the more we avoid them and do not share them with other human beings?
Why do we have a special ability to express love and hatred towards someone?
Why is it so hard to discuss personal convictions and why do we avoid expressing ourselves?
Because people are not sensitive to our personal needs, or know how to explain these types of emotions without being allowed to give reasoning to the way you feel. They simply justify your feelings, to blaming the way we feel on others actions, without taking personal responsibility on our own part.
Is this programmed into us or is part of our emotional makeup that makes us distinct from all other
Warm blooded animals?
Is this an accident or just a product of evolution? I will let you answer that for yourself.
If we are opened to the point that we as humans are physical/metal and have a spiritual component, we are able to explore all three of these characteristics. Once opened for discussion it makes the TMS BATTLE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE. Many times is put off as insignificant This is an area that once tapped into can explode into discovering many reasons for our insecurities in life as well as why we often don’t know why TMS has such a strong hold hindering our recovery. It also answers the question why there is such an increase of poor health and sickness around us that we are all susceptible to, even though we live in the most advanced civilization in the world with the latest technology in modern medicine.
Why is this so? Because in all of us is there spiritual connection longing for us tap into. It is a KEY element in TMS.
I would like to make a comment about the spiritual connection in TMS. Just hear me out for one moment. I do not intend on trying neither to convert, evangelize, or sell anything nor to bring about a debate. I do not wish to Influence, sell anything or preach in any way. I would just like to clarify what I have learned and share with you some points that many fellow TMSers have shared with me about their dramatic turn around and solid recovery. There have been some brief examples on the board. But they have been limited to share due to the nature of the subject and attacks anytime they tried to expand on the subject. I have been in contact with many of you for over 5 moths and have made many new friends as well as discussing the spiritual side of TMS off the board for over 11 months now.
Dave is a FAIR man, and does a GREAT JOB of keeping the peace and the flow of the board. He is also an opened minded person who allows discussions to expand into some personal and interrelated topics which in return share knowledge as well as help some people on a personal level. Because of his commitment and values, he has created a safe environment because he doesn’t tolerate personal attacks. He has shown his maturity level at all times and hasn’t once launched an attack, while maintaining his position with fairness. He also hasn’t used his power to over dominant ones opinions or values; this is a true mark of a good moderator and leader. I am glad he holds the position.And if we can all learn from him, honoring the board policy, and not launching attacks we would be able to expand on topics such as this.
Dave states in the board policy
*There are no hard and fast rules about what can be discussed on this board. Any opinions about TMS-related topics, including those that are not 100% consistent with Dr. Sarno's theory, are welcome.
*I've said it before: there is a line between a heated discussion and a flame war. Flames will be deleted.
With that said, I would like to respond to Dave’s comments constructively because I know he would permit.
*It's not surprising to me that religion often pops up on this forum, because I believe that highly religious people can sometimes grow up in highly repressed environments.
I agree with this, but also since birth All people from all facets of life grow up as children subjected to repressed environments; religion or no religion this is not common for family orientated cultures. This is a result of the break down of the family structure as well the type of society we live in.
Sarno mentions as well as studies have also shown that cultures that are not subjected to these modern pressures do not get health problems associated with stress and TMS manifestations.
People who live in a modern fast pace, industrialized, fast changing cultures are definitely on the top of the list of “highly repressed environments.”
*In fact, I would go out on a limb here to say that some highly religious people may have a handicap when it comes to fighting TMS. For one thing, maybe they cannot fully accept that they are in a blind rage inside. There are some pretty ugly emotions living in our unconscious, and those emotions may be unacceptable in many religions.
I would like to say there is a similarity to what Dave is saying to religion and TMS and wouldn’t dismiss it as a handicap, because most religions have a dilemma what we call sin. And most of them try to work their way of getting rid of this. Not the case in what I believe, However I believe this is what separates us from having an intimate relationship with God.
I have studies all the religions of the world and even going back to The Egyptian age they believed that that after death their Soul was weighed with a feather and if their soul was more than the feather they would not enter heaven. There are much historical inscriptions to verify this.
This wasn’t hard for me to grasp because for me this is how I came to faith. I recognized the pride, anger, and selfishness issues. While acknowledging that I had a problem. These types of emotions unmet are what leads to emptiness, anger and rage in all of us. A remedy would be the fulfillment to these Unmet needs, I believe this is the need we all long for.
*On another level, some religious people put their blind faith in a higher power, and in some ways that absolves them of responsibility for their own recovery.
I put my blind faith IN him (GOD) and that makes me totally accountable to him.
With a reverence to him, I have nothing to fear for myself anymore.
Yielding takes all of my burdens away and I know who is ultimately in control.
This frees me up to get real and make peace within myself and the TMS that tries to control me.
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Edited by - kenny V on 08/06/2004 06:52:29 |
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Irish Jimmy
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 17:12:54
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Kenny V. I find the following interesting from your post...
This TMS could be a blessing in disguise. It forces you to take a second look within and settle some of life’s most critical issues. How many people do you really know, who can honestly say they have found inner contentment and the “pursuit of Happiness” we are all looking for?
I thought the same thing after journaling about a month ago. I said to myself, even if I never get rid of 100% of my pain,- which I will and continue to work toward,- I've have learned so much about myself it is amazing. You think you know yourself, and your life experiences, and how they have effected you. Then you start practicing the TMS concept and you start looking at goodism and perfectionistic traits in yourself, and you start thinking about rage leftover from childhood, and life stresses and it gives you a whole different and lasting perspective of your self. This has been an added bonus for me on my way toward being pain free.
As far as finding inner contentment, or as I would call it having peace with yourself, it is rare. The people who I have thought to have inner contentment, I admire. I think a huge part of contentment is self esteem. And this ties the whole idea into TMS. I feel inner contentment is high or good self esteem, We all know Sarno has mentioned low self esteem as a personality trait that could add to supressed feelings in the unconscious.
There is a quote from somebody that says "In the pursuit of happiness, before you journey off, make sure you are happy with yourself, only then may you reconsider the journey."
Good post Kenny. |
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luke
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 05:32:21
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Awesome post Kenny! You hit the nail on the head! And the reason we
(everyone on the planet) suppress emotions is to avoid the responsibility of purpose we have with ourselves, others and our Maker.
Bill |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 06:50:18
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Thanks all,
I made an edit, I might have missed it the first time or it was too strong of language, so I ended it simple
Thanxs Again
Always Hope For Recovery
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 07:26:30
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Irish Jimmy (and Kenny),
GREAT last post...I copied it and put it in my "TMS Journal".
JayP |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2004 : 07:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by luke
And the reason we
(everyone on the planet) suppress emotions is to avoid the responsibility of purpose we have with ourselves, others and our Maker.
Alright, let's all stop the broad generalizations here. Can you really speak for "everyone on the planet?" I think not.
If you feel that religious faith helps in your own personal quest to conquer TMS, then good for you.
Irish Jimmy, your post is right on the money. Fighting TMS is not about finding inner peace or contentment. If you can do that, great. But if that was a requirement for getting better, then Sarno would not have the success rate that he does. And if it required a strong religious faith, even less people would recover.
I prefer not to be an active moderator, but like I said, I won't tolerate religious evangelizing here. There are plenty of other places on the Internet you can go for that. This board is about TMS. |
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Newbie here
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