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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2005 : 18:00:46
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Yesterday I was up at the local cricket club with my husband and a few friends. While we were having drinks, my husband Bob spotted someone that he knew. We'll call him Bill. Bill had just had back surgery 8 days ago and so Bob was very surprised to see him up and about and at the bar so soon. Anyway, Bob called out to him and he came over and we were introduced. When we all expressed our amazemnet at his very speedy recovery, he smiled and whipped out some photos that he had in his pocket with a great sense of pride and showed them to us. They were photos of his spine after the surgery. He had had three vertebrae fused and there were 8 great big pins holding his spine in place. He was beaming as he passed them around as if they were cigars. I couldn't even bear to look at them.
When my husband tried to tell him that I had a bad back but had learnt to deal with it without any invasive measures he wasn't even the slightest bit interested. I could tell immediately that it would be a waste of time even trying to explain Sarno to him and so I didn't bother.
The thing is that he went to the same radiologist that I went to for my MRI, a guy called Dr. Griffiths. Dr. Griffiths (bless him) told me not to have surgery-ever. He says that there are far too many backs being cut up that don't need to be and is totally against it. He apparently said the same thing to this guy when he went for his MRI. Unfortunately his orthopod told him otherwise and that he should go ahead with it whereas mmy othopod agreed with the radiologist and said 'No' in my case.
5 days after the back surgery while he was still in hospital, Bill's doctor told him that he should schedule an operation for his neck since he was also having some problems with his neck. He sent Bill down for another MRI. Dr. Griffiths, the radiologist refused to do an MRI for him.
As he was leaving, I asked Bill " so can you you bend your back anymore?" to which he replied 'no, of course not' and I said 'Oh how sad'. He stared at me hard and left.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2005 : 06:00:20
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Just look at the advice people are given about their backs bythe medical establishment:
Source: http://www.orthophysician.com/neck_spine.htm
The general public in completely brainwashed......Dr. Sarno dismisses everyone of these pieces of advice.
DO's and DONT's
Standing:
DO stand with foot on small stool to keep pelvis level and spine straight.
DON'T stand with weight shifted to one side.
DON'T stand with knees locked.
Lifting:
DO stand with knees bent, legs apart, and object close to body.
DO maintain lumbar curve and lift with legs.
DO get help if object is too heavy or awkward to lift correctly.
DON'T bend from the waist and/or lift object with knees straight.
DON'T twist from the waist when lifting.
Carrying:
DO bend knees keeping back straight and lift and carry object close to the body.
DON'T bend forward at the waist with knees locked.
Squatting:
DO squat so any activity may be performed with a straight spine.
DON'T bend from the waist and reach with low back rounded.
Vacuuming:
DO bend knees and keep trunk upright.
DON'T bend over from the waist with knees straight. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2005 : 15:47:15
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2 level fusion: $30,000.00
1 copy of "The Mindbody Prescription": $11.20
Got Sarno?
-Stryder |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 15:43:07
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Good for Dr. Griffiths!! I agree, there are entirely too many back surgeries performed.
The receptionist at our office had back surgery earlier this year, and I begged her to read Dr. Sarno before she went through with it. She did, gave it back, and thanked me. She had the surgery and lo and behold, is still having pain 8 months later. She's going in for more tests to see what else they can do, but I'm not saying another word. Sometimes you have to know when you're talking to a brick wall. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 19:52:24
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And you know what Michele? That "brick wall" of which you speak is created by the medical establishment. It seems to me they cause about as much suffering as the alleviate.
I would like for us on this TMS forum to draft some kind of letter as an introduction to TMS and send it to as many health care providers as we can. If we do not get the word out then it is not going to happen at all. |
Edited by - n/a on 11/08/2005 20:00:06 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 00:44:54
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In fact I think in many cases the medical establishment are responsible for creating more suffering. Nearly all kinds of medication have side effects some quite seious like celebrex, vioxx etc. They give temporary relief and cause lasting damage. Also there is the financial aspect of seeing doctors, having tests, surgery etc. which in turn leads to stress and other related problems.
The problem with us sending a letter out is that no one will take us seriously. My chiro didn't even bother to acknowledge that I had sent him an email but then that may be because I told him in no plain words what I really thought about him.
What would help are more reports on TV like 20/20 and 60 mins plus by credible and well respected reporters or some kind of reporting by well known and famous people . That would make people sit up and listen and then they could ask their medical practioners for more information and that might lead to more doctors showing an interest in tms. It would also help if Sarno could somehow get more involved in this attemt to 'spread the word'.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 06:00:31
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| Your chiro is only one person Mala. Also, remember that 20/20 and other news outlets are run by major corporations who have a vested interest to keep this deception going. Such an effort has to be at the grassroots level. Don't trust the media to properly cover such a story, except for a few notbale exceptions which have been posted here. Just take a look at the thousdands and thousands of articles in the media on chronic pain and how not even one of them discusses the role of emotions but goes to great lenghts to promote these bogus and expensive treatments. We cannot wait for others to do this as otherwise it will not happen and the suffering continues. |
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Calvin
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 06:03:35
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quote:
It would also help if Sarno could somehow get more involved in this attemt to 'spread the word'.
I don't think it has anything to do with him becoming more involved. He can only go so far, but as Michele said, you hit that brick wall. My wife trusts her doctor, so when he says her back is in spasm and she needs bed rest and inflammatories (sp?), she believes him. Its the power of a fixed idea. To her, its not stress related - "everyone in my family has had back problems" is her reply, so its accepted.
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 07:47:17
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
I would like for us on this TMS forum to draft some kind of letter as an introduction to TMS and send it to as many health care providers as we can. If we do not get the word out then it is not going to happen at all.
Great idea, and maybe if we all sent Sarno's book to our physician we'd pique some of their interests!
I intend to do my part after I cross the finish line of the Seattle Half Marathon on November 27. In July 2004 I was told by an orthopedic doctor that I was old, no longer an athlete, and he wanted to schedule me for a hip replacement that day. I am 46 and I have moderate arthritis - that's it. When I get back home, I am going to send a picture of me crossing the finish line with my medal, and Dr. Sarno's book, to that doctor and my regular GP, along with a letter asking them to read the book, and just letting them know how it changed my life. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 08:39:11
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
If we do not get the word out then it is not going to happen at all.
A noble goal.
In the end, the word will get out there, but I think it will take more than a couple dozen letters, it will just take time.
Right now, the only process that holds significant leverage is a clinical trial in the mindbody connection to pain syndromes. It seems that the mainstream medical community is stuck in a rut. Clinical trials cost lots of money, and its unclear who would put up the funds to in essence REDUCE the amount of revenue that the medical profession receives in treatment fees. That's the reality of the situation, curing people's pain is not in the financial interest of the medical profession. This is not a new idea, as it has been mentioned many times in this forum.
Maybe some well off non-profit foundation will take up the cause and fund the trial(s).
It reminds me of the cold war. It will just take time until both sides finally "come around" and realize that cold war is just a stupid concept, and that people can be pain free for virtually zero dollars.
The other approach to consider this from the demand side, the patients, a true grass roots effort. If the public can be convinced of the scam, then they would not go to their doctor to have the doc "fix" the pain.
Take care, -Stryder. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 10:58:08
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I like your attitude Michele!!! This is exactly what we need.
As for the "clinical trials" which was mentioned by Stryder, they have been done! How about well over 10,000 cases - which are open any time for viewing by valid researchers- with over an 85% success rate? What more is needed? There is enough documented material to sell this idea. Even if only 1% of health care providers are receptive, or even one, this translates into one person living a life without pain. It is worth the effort. Don't look at the big obstacles and become overwhelmed, just look at the small tasks you can do now, and do them to the best of your ability. Noone could ask for more.....
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 07:39:45
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i have a friend who shoes horses for a living. He regularly works in a hunched over position that would make most back specialists cringe. He is also regularly kicked, bitten and squashed by these huge animals. He has no insurance so he rarely sees a doctor. He easily dismisses pain that would send me to the ER screaming for morphine! If he did see a doctor he would me MRI'd and tested half to death for things he just ignores and they go away. Obviously you could carry this to an absurd level. There are times when an injury obviously needs a doctors attention, but i find this fascinating.
Jill |
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Becca
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 08:31:32
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| I am a skeptic to the extreme, so I have been having difficulty dismissing my "abnormal" Mri. I am a grad student in the medical field. Part of my therapy includes regularly searching medical joural databases to find studies that dispute the relationship between back pain and structural abnormalities. There have been at least 20 that have demonstrated no correlation between back pain and abnormal structures. A few have even determined that stress and job dissatisfaction is a bigger predictor that disc problems. It is amazing to me that I work among nurses, Mds, provide anesthesia for back surgeries and have done epiduralspinal injections, and emotions are never considered. My own MD told me my neck was hurting because it was too long. We need a massive paradigm shift in teh medical field.-R |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:57:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Becca
I am a skeptic to the extreme, so I have been having difficulty dismissing my "abnormal" Mri.
Hi Becca,
In Dr. Sarno's interview with John Stossell on 2020, the two are discussing the bad disks that show up on Mr. Stossell's imaging studies. Dr. Sarno's reply is just wonderful, he says...
"Yes, a normal abnormality."
...and I find it helpful to rerun this line in my mind a few times whenever I need to be reminded that there is not a direct link between the images and the pain.
Take care, -Stryder |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 18:07:05
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i liked that term "normal abnormality". After a vaginal hysterectomy for a very badly prolapsed uterus, i now have a rectocele. (where the rectum bulges up into the vagina , my apologies for THOSE details). I have been SO afraid this is causing my leg/butt pain. Then i get to doing some research. Seems the MAJORITY of women who have had children have these. Surgery to correct them, which hundreds of thousands of women have yearly, is a dismal failure as they tend to reoccur. For years before my hysterectomy i had severe bladder pain and frequent urination (undiagnosed!) despite numerous urologists. I've had some kind of chronic pelvic pain for 10 years and i DO have weakness in my pelvic floor. And it really hurts so i'm not quite sure how to get past this.....thanks!!
Jill |
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Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 23:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Michele
I intend to do my part after I cross the finish line of the Seattle Half Marathon on November 27. In July 2004 I was told by an orthopedic doctor that I was old, no longer an athlete, and he wanted to schedule me for a hip replacement that day. I am 46 and I have moderate arthritis - that's it. When I get back home, I am going to send a picture of me crossing the finish line with my medal, and Dr. Sarno's book, to that doctor and my regular GP, along with a letter asking them to read the book, and just letting them know how it changed my life.
Good for you, Michele! That's more likely to be effective than a form letter.
As far as the receptionist is concerned, she could always change her mind later. It takes some people a long time to take Sarno seriously. I think the fact that she read the book is a good first start. It might be good to bring up Dr. Sarno's approach again in a low key way and see how she responds.
Jim |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 07:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Becca
We need a massive paradigm shift in the medical field.-R
It will be up to the patients who are suffering in solidarity with health professionals who are already convinced of the TMS diagnosis to bring this shift about as it is not going to happen any other way. I know that many docs are afraid to come out even though the know the truth as the can potentially face a backlash and even lose their lisence, but unless more brave people come forward the deception, and thus the suffering, will continue. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 03:39:08
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| My sister's husband had surgery over the spring for a herniated disc that was causing numbness and pain down to his foot. Now I can't say for sure whether or not this surgery was warranted or not, because the docs said it was an emergency situation. They said all the jelly stuff in the disc was all spilled out of the disc and sitting on his spine, causing the numbness and pain in the foot. Well it's been eight months, and my sister's husband is still complaining that every mattress he tries hurts his back, and he's still not completely better. Just sharing... not making judgements here. My sis won't accept that it MAY be possible that her husband has pressures as a dad, pressures at work, pressures from quitting drugs and alcohol. She insists he's not that "personality type." Well guess what, those personality types that don't show their anger and frustration are the types that are holding it in. I can't make her see this so I stopped trying. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 17:06:12
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Why bother trying to make her believe it at all--it's not her problem! How about going directly to him. Buy him Healing Back Pain as a gift, tell him about TMS... If he's interested he'll read it, and if not...well at least you tried.
It's very frustrating when people don't accept the TMS concept when you know it's their problem, but all you can do is present the idea, the rest is up to them. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 19:35:03
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It's very frustrating when people don't accept the TMS concept when you know it's their problem, but all you can do is present the idea, the rest is up to them.
Absoultely. I know so many people with back and knee problems. They know what I have been thru with my own back and see the progress I have made in terms of recovery. You would think that they would want to find out more about how I deal with it but no far from it, they are not interested and they don't want to know. One guy I know is only 42 and has had knee surgery 3 times already. He doesn't want to go thru it again and yet he has shown no interst in asking me about tms and Sarno even though he knowsd I have made great progress with my own pain.
I don't bother giving out information. It dosesn't work till they want it to work.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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Jim1999
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 22:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
It will be up to the patients who are suffering in solidarity with health professionals who are already convinced of the TMS diagnosis to bring this shift about as it is not going to happen any other way. I know that many docs are afraid to come out even though the know the truth as the can potentially face a backlash and even lose their lisence, but unless more brave people come forward the deception, and thus the suffering, will continue.
Well said!
Mala,
Some patients may need to hear about Dr. Sarno a few times before they will take him seriously. They might need to exhaust their other treatment options before they would consider such a "crazy" idea. But if they've heard about Dr. Sarno enough times to remember him, I think that some of these patients might still be willing to give his treatment a chance later.
I'm not saying you should talk about Sarno endlessly, just a little bit once in a while. Just a thought.
Jim |
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yesterday I met someone who had back surgery
