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n/a
560 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2005 : 15:51:50
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I have had my second session with my psychotherapist. The
problem is that I am educating her on TMS also as it
is new to her. She has read Dr. Sarnos's book Healing
Back Pain and I also loaned her a copy Dr. Sarno's
lecture. She is- for the most part- in agreement with
what Dr. Sarno has to say, but she was a bit skeptical
over the tape as it was a bit too scripted for her
taste. Also, she is gently trying to get me to accept
physical modalities to deal with my pain (Naturopath,
Oxidizers, etc....) which I am resisting up until now.
Also, in her recommendations she is trying to
encourage change in my behaviour and attitudes which,
if I understand TMS treatment correctly, is not
necessary for a full recovery from TMS, but only what
is necessary is to recognize the role of repressed
emotions in bringing about physical symptoms as a
distraction. It is very important for me to remain
"pure" to TMS teachings and not get side-tracked by
physical modalities.
I don't know how to quite deal with this, and I feel
somewhat stupid in educating her as I am going to her
for help and paying some serious cash also.
Can you offer a piece of advice on how to deal with my therapist....
Peter |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 16:00:37
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| My therapist had not heard of Sarno before, and I she supports the whole concept. However, I find myself educating her in my sessions, which even though I have health insurance, is still a high co-pay for me to shell out each time. I am finding myself at a crossroads after about 7 sessions with her because even though she is not encouraging modalities, as you put it, she is getting more out of it than I am. Not sure why that is the way I see it but it seems that though she supports and totally agrees it's TMS, she herself hasn't helped me to get through anything yet. Maybe I'm impatient? Not sure. But your therapist sounds like she does accept and support TMS but maybe not fully. That's where we, as patients have to once again, stand up for ourselves and make decisions that no one else can for us, but US. So I'm not sure what to tell you except if she isn't really doing the therapy with the analyst approach, instead of behavior changing approach, then it sounds like it may not work. You need to go with your gut on this one, just as I do right now. Let me know if you get any more insight, it may help me make a decision too. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 16:06:56
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Hi Peter.
Well,unfortunately that doesn't jive with TMS recovery.I'm surprised that you got that response.I've talked with a couple of psychologists and Psychotherapists and they for the most part wholeheartedly agree with Sarno.
The one I did the most work with actually was excited,as he felt a lot of his patients problems were psychogenic in origin,and he was stoked that I turned him on to Sarno.
Doing modalities presupposes a structural problem.Oxidizers,although at first glance seem to corroborate with Ischemia,would be symptomatic treatment if Sarno's theories are your foundation,and Naturopath would be a potential placebo,once again presupposing that there is something "wrong"
Since you've only been twice,you might want to look for a new therapist.It's your money,and you seem to be dialed into what you need....behaviour modification is fine,but it really doesn't address getting at the root of repressed anger.
just one opinion
peace
Baseball65 |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 16:18:43
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| I hate to give her up as she has been the most open-mined and most therapists don't go for the whole mindbody thing as Dr. Sarno points out. The very fact she read the material and is keeping an open mind is a good sign. But still I feel slighted a bit as I am paying her and educating her at the same time. |
Edited by - n/a on 06/26/2005 18:56:07 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 16:21:53
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Peter,
That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm paying to educate HER and feel the trade off isn't in my favor. It's a hard one to tackle. |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 17:41:00
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Hi Peter,
Here's my 2c worth. I suspect that you are in the wrong kind of therapy. Attitudes and behviour stuff makes me think of cognitive-behavioural approach which is actively UNhelpful in dealing with TMS. Sarno himself says that anayltical (insight-oriented) therapy is the best choice for TMS sufferers.
If you are remaining pure to Sarno's work, your goal must be to dig into your repressed rage and hidden emotions. If you are a TMS personality (and I assume you are) you will probably have a hard time experiencing and expressing anger. So the tricky thing about your current situation with this therapist is that this is a set-up for more rage. You're paying money to get your needs taken care of, and instead of that you're having to take care of her needs by educating her. You say that you feel "stupid" and "slighted a bit" about this; I'd suggest that on some level you actually feel deeply angry at her. You may also feel angry about these "physical modalities" she's suggesting; the fact that you're resisting them says to me that you know very well they're going against the Sarno model, and I bet a part of you is thinking "if she buys into Sarno, why's she suggesting the physical stuff?" and probably getting pissed off about it.
If it's difficult to connect with this anger, think of yourself as a child: you want to be taken care of, to be left alone, not to have any pressure put on you. Instead you're having to take on MORE responsibility: to educate, justify, defend yourself AND pay someone for the privilege of all this! Good god, there's enough anger just there for several weeks worth of therapy! (In fact as someone who has done much therapy over the years, I kinow that the whole subject of having to pay a therapist alone is in itself rife with emotions you didn't know you had.)
It would of course be great if we could all find therapists who understand Sarno inside and out. As this isn't possible, I believe that it's important to find someone who agrees with the principles of Sarno's work and will help us uncover hidden emotions especially rage. The rest is not difficult and we can apply it ourselves - Sarno himself says that becoming aware of, and in some cases feeling the emotion will make the physical symptoms unnecessary. But you must be helped to be aware of these emotions, and nothing you've said indicates to me that this therapist is taking you in the right direction here. Changing behaviour and attitude is NOT what you need right now - you need to understand the unconscious emotions that are creating this syndrome.
I don't want to run your therapist down: it's really important to like the person you're seeing. But tread carefully: as baseball says it's your money and you need to find someone who really can help you sort this out. At the end of the day the best test of a therapist is how they react when you hit 'em with the thing you're most concerned about, face to face. It's bloody difficult, but if you were to tell her what you've said here: that you're confused, don't want to educate her, feel stupid doing so, resent being a teacher, resent paying for it, resent having to discuss this with her and basically don't know what you're getting out of this - and then sit back and see what she does - you'd probably learn an awful lot about how safely you can get angry with her which is an INCREDIBLY important thing to find out about your therapist. If this seems too difficult, you could start by saying you have a hard time expressing anger but it's really important you get a couple of things off your chest and go from there. Anger is not an attitude or behaviour that needs to be changed - it is something that needs to be felt and expressed. Anyone can waffle about "mind-body connections", but not everyone can deal with anger coming AT THEM and know how to handle it appropriately so that it's truly empowering for the client. |
Edited by - Hilary on 06/26/2005 18:01:36 |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 18:55:24
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Sometimes I think I was just pressured to go into therpy because mental work alone was no bringing about the cessation of symptoms and Dr. Sarno suggests this type of therapy. I think I am more insight-analytical oriented than the average patient, and I do outright reject the behavioral modifaction model to bring about recovery. I was hoping that I would be taught by my therapist about how to dig deeper inside of me. But she read Healing Back Pain and said she agreed with everything, but I don't think she understood it all. Let's face it, many of us had to read the book many times before it sank in.
I am very much aware of my own anger and resentment on the conscious level but alas, this is not where the problem lies- it is something buried deep in me, something so sinister and so ugly that my brian is going to all this trouble to create a distraction. I think all of us on this board can relate to that. And yes, I can think of 100 better thinks to do with my money then give it to a therapist. But then this goodist part in me thinks if I can educate her then she can help others with what she learned.
In response to yoiu Hilary where you state "I bet a part of you is thinking "if she buys into Sarno, why's she suggesting the physical stuff?" and probably getting pissed off about it," yes I do feel that way now that you mention it. |
Edited by - n/a on 06/26/2005 18:58:56 |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 22:42:57
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I will be starting to see a therapist for the first time next week. I am worried about all of the things you are talking about. I did some phone screening though it was mostly throught their secretaries and the one I chose does believe that pain can be psychogenic but I couldn't get a straight answer over whether she knew of Sarnos's work. I am also wondering, how long do you give a therapist before you decide whether or not it is working for you? I also don't want to be in the position where I feel like I have to direct my own therapy.. "OK, now you ask me............ but I don't want to add to my repressed anger either by being the nice 'goodist' patient who just does what the good doctor tells me.
How do you know if they are leading you in hte right direction? I'm sure that sometimes it is obvious if they are very behavior-modification focussed but I'm sure there must be times in all therapy when you are not sure exactly where something is going or where it is going to lead you. How much time and money do you invest before you start looking for a new therapist?
Carolyn |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 05:43:33
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterMcKay
she read Healing Back Pain and said she agreed with everything, but I don't think she understood it all.
So you go to your therapist and tell her that, and a good therapist will ask you what it's like for you to think and feel that she doesn't understand Sarno, which will start to broaden out the discussion in all sorts of ways: you feel angry, let down, confused, etc etc, and this will lead down a variety of avenues including your past history. This could be a really fertile ground for learning. I mean let's face it: She says she understand sarno, but she clearly doesn't or can't be bothered to (by the way I'm sure you and most people here understood Sarno at first read, so don't make excuses for her). And you are deeply angry that you've gone to her to be taken care of, to understand yourself, and you're NOT getting that.
If you don't feel that she's responding appropriately or she starts on about behaviour modification, or she leads you away from, rather than into, your anger, you must find another therapist. And if you can't find someone who's read Sarno, find an analytical therapist who is going to lead you into, rather than away from, your feelings.
quote:
But then this goodist part in me thinks if I can educate her then she can help others with what she learned.
It's excellent that you recognize this: it's important that you share these feelings with her and that, once again, she leads you down the path of understanding these feelings and the rage they generate. |
Edited by - Hilary on 06/27/2005 06:04:00 |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 05:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn
How do you know if they are leading you in hte right direction? I'm sure that sometimes it is obvious if they are very behavior-modification focussed but I'm sure there must be times in all therapy when you are not sure exactly where something is going or where it is going to lead you. How much time and money do you invest before you start looking for a new therapist?
Carolyn
I was lucky enough to stumble across an amazing therapist when I lived in New York. I didn't know about Sarno at the time, but now that I do - and I can look back and appreciate how much she taught me - I can really understand how much of our work involved understanding how deeply angry I was. That was a sort of central theme.
One of the things that was very interesting was that she always seemed curious about my anger, especially when it was directed towards her, which was incredibly liberating as I'd never had the opportunity to voice anger towards another person and have them accept it and explore it rather than react to it. For instance I remember that at the beginning I paid quite a low rate, and she asked me how it felt to pay a lower rate than other patients. It stays in my memory because at the time I thought I should only feel gratitute to her; but underneath that I felt rage that I "should feel" anything, and I also wondered if she was giving me a cut-price service! afterwards I felt this sense of release. I knew that I could really talk to this person about anything including how I felt about her, and she'd be able to handle it and explore it.
She seemed very keyed into the fact that my modus operandi was that I'd try to please her and be the "good patient", and we talked about this a lot as well. |
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Question about dealing with therapist
