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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 06/15/2005 : 13:17:37
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I have a question about Tension Myositis Syndrome. I am sure I have this condition. My personality profile fits it to a "T" in that I am a perfectionist and a "goodist". I was emotionally abused as a child and was married for 35 years to a narcissistic alcoholic who took his anger out on me.
I have had back problems since I was 18 years old which were relieved temporarily by chiropractic adjustment. I have gotten a divorce and have devoted much time and effort to healing my back via chiropractor, massage, and acupressure.
In the material I have read about TMS, it says that back pain is exacerbated by conscious stress. However, I have noticed in the last several years, that my back hurts worse when I am more relaxed. When I am very tense, I don't feel much of anything, but when I relax I feel pain and stiffness. My question is: why would this be happening?
Thank you.
Marilyn |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 17:32:18
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because when you are relaxed, you might start thinking about the things that are truely bothering you. Since you unconsiously do not want to do that, you either become tense, which is an unpleasant feeling, but one that will distract you from real life, or you get pain in your back. And almost nothing is as distracting as pain!
Remember, when you are distracted (with pain or tenseness), you never have to think about the realities...because you are to preoccupied to think at all.
All those adjustments from the chiropracters helped because they were just another form of distraction...not a cure.
Sandy |
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 18:36:37
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I understand that the chiropractor adjustments were just temporary fixes, but as long as they worked (and my insurance paid), I was able to keep putting off really addressing the problem.
Thanks for your reply. I was thinking it must have something to do with, when you relax, it might be easier for the unwanted emotions to show their ugly faces. As long as I'm tense, I've got other things on my mind to distract me.
Glad I found this message board. :-) |
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amymae
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 20:29:20
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Hi Marilyn,
I could be wrong- i don't have the book in front of me- but I'm pretty certain that Dr. Sarno says that its very common to experience pain when you're relaxed. I think he told a couple stories of people who had a loved one die, but didn't experience pain until a few weeks later. Sarno seemed to believe that your unconscious mind's purpose (to distract you from repressed feelings) is rendered useless in the face of such a stressful event.
If you believe your personality is a match to what Dr. Sarno describes in his book, and you've ruled out a valid medical cause, then i think its safe to say that you have tms.
I think the sooner you accept the diagnosis and stop all your chiropractic care the better. I think the key is REALLY believing the diagnosis. That means not doing any special stretches or favoring your pain afflicted areas at all. Its difficult, but i think it necessary.
Take care,
amy |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 20:30:27
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Marilyn,
Last Saturday was my daughter's bat mitzvah. I was so stressed out and nervous about it all, worrying that she would do well and worrying about giving my two page speech. I never once felt dizzy, which I normally do, because I was too preoccupied with my heart racing out of my chest and the nausea in the pit of my stomach. I guess those physical distractions were enough for my brain. Now that I have time on my hands again, guess what? Today I got dizzy (briefly but for a moment). I swear, you have to keep so busy you just never have time to notice it.
Good luck to you.
Laura
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 20:47:11
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Thanks, Laura and Amy for the replies. I already knew that about stopping chiropractic, Amy..........have known for several years when I first read Dr. Sarno's books. It was just that it was easier to keep going to chiro and get the temporary "fix" than deal with this thing. HOWEVER............I had gotten to a point of opening up to my emotions that the chiro didn't work last time. That got my attention and I started heavy duty studying of Dr. Sarno's theories, etc.
Will keep on with my acupressurist because she definitely is instrumental in helping me release buried emotions. Went to a psychologist today who said I don't need to worry about getting in touch with the buried stuff............I'm already doing it with the acupressurist (and massage therapist). Need to get more in touch with my conscious feelings, though.
I'm different than most of the people I have read about in the books, etc. I always knew I didn't have anything structurally wrong with my back, neck, etc. I always knew it was from stress; I just didn't understand the mechanism of how it worked, I guess and didn't want to go through the pain of "getting to the other side" until the pain became too great to have that attitude anymore. Pain killers, stretching, exercises have never worked for me (even though I was a physical ed. teacher), so the only "addiction" I will have to give up is the chiro.
Thanks again.
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smwalker
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 23:49:45
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Marilyn, your question reminded me of another post on this forum:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=242&SearchTerms=hurricane
Hurricanes Heal TMS
In my own case I though it was my job causing my back pain, so i quit, though that would cure it, only got worse with me staying home all day with all the time in the world to reflect on my life.
So your observations are not far off from the norm.
Steve Walker
Steve@capriceshop.com |
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2005 : 02:55:04
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Thanks, Steve. Validation is always valuable and will come in handy when the doubts come.
I would recommend to anyone having trouble getting in touch with the unconscious rage (if you're having trouble healing and need to go deeper) to see an acupressurist. When you "allow" them to move the buried stuff out, it is quite dramatic..........and painful, but it's good to get it out. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 07:02:37
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I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
I think psycho therapy is often nessessary, but that is working with your own thoughts...not having someone work on you!
Sorry, that is my opinion...but all of these manipulations done by others to you do not do a damn bit of good in the long run if you do not do your own work. It is just an easy way out, and easy ways rarely work long term.
Sandy |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 08:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by ssjs
I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
I couldn't agree more.
The primary concept of TMS is that it is not a physical problem. If you seek any treatment that reinforces the idea that there is a structural issue that needs to be addressed, it hinders recovery, even if that treatment does offer short-term relief. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 09:58:25
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quote:
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Originally posted by ssjs
I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
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This could be a hasty conclusion. I have talked to massage therapists who routinely experience people's emotional catharsis after a deep tissue massage (or whatever type of massage is being done) This may not be all that different from release of emotions (ie. unconscious emotions emotions entering into consciousness) during psychotherapy. Remember that if our minds and bodies truly are one, and that "mind" exists throughtout the body (remember Candice Pert's research), then it is entirley possible that what seems like a physical treatment (a massage) really ends up being an emotional one. I think everyone is just assuming that a massage always has to be lumped into the category of a physcial treatment--I understand the reason for that, I just think it doesn't always have to be that simple. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:36:11
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It isn't even that i think that massage is just a physical treatment for stress. It is just that i do not believe that any kind of phsical manipulations can give long term hope to a tms cure!
Your repressed emotions are in your head...just presenting themselves in your back or foot or whatever...but nontheless, they are in your head! so the head must be worked on.
Sandy |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 09:16:58
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"However, I have noticed in the last several years, that my back hurts worse when I am more relaxed. When I am very tense, I don't feel much of anything, but when I relax I feel pain and stiffness. My question is: why would this be happening?"
The reason you feel the pain come on when you are relaxed, calm is because when you were in the midst of the crisis, trouble, etc. your brain was already distracted enough, it didn't need more to keep the issues at bay. When you relax, your brain is scared you might start thinking about things, figuring out the jig, getting to the bottom of it all. That's when it throws a pain your way to keep you good and distracted from the emotional stuff.
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 02:54:49
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quote:
Originally posted by ssjs
It isn't even that i think that massage is just a physical treatment for stress. It is just that i do not believe that any kind of phsical manipulations can give long term hope to a tms cure!
Your repressed emotions are in your head...just presenting themselves in your back or foot or whatever...but nontheless, they are in your head! so the head must be worked on.
Sandy
I believe that the buried and repressed emotions are actually buried in our bodies, not in our heads. I know people who can feel a pain in their body, meditate, and "see" what trauma, emotion, etc. is causing it. I believe our bodies "splint" around buried emotions just like they splint around a bone that is broken or a joint that is sprained, because the brain doesn't know the difference between a physical trauma or an emotional trauma. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:27:33
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I see what you are saying, but I still think that in the end, emotions are buried in our minds...even though it is our bodies that react to them...and it is easy to say that our hamstring angry and is reacting to the trauma of our not so great experiences...and it will scream it out given the right manipulations....but that is giving our bodies the say so and not our brains, and it is ultimatly our brain that gains the understanding about what actually happened.
My opinion
Sandy |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 10:17:59
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OK, ssjs, so if someone you love were to give you a hug in a time of crisis and you burst out cring, you would call that a physical manipulation? The brain is only the organ of the mind--it sends and recieves all the signals, but that doesn't mean "mind" is found no where else in the body. It sounds like eastern mysticism, but that is the concept Dr. Sarno leads to when citing the scientific study done by candice Pert in MBP.
It sounds like maybe you didn't read Mindbody Prescription. In MBP, Doc Sarno took out the hyphen between mind-body and made it ONE word--mindbody. They can't be separated. If you separate them, you throw support to the Cartesian split between mind and body--the very concept Sarno is fighting.
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 10:51:57
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I am not separating the two! I just think that there is more to it all than getting that hug! It is how your mind reacts to the hug! If you need a hug, and someone you may have an issue with hugs you, that hug might not be so comforting, even if it is meant to be, by someone you should be happy about.
I am just saying that in my opinion, you have got to work on your mind to get your body straight. Sarno says to think psychologically! And that is what I do.
I was also at a lecture once where Dr. Sarno said that exercises for the back were a waste of time...UNLESS you were just doing it to look good, and be generally healthyer. I think that is a similar thing. exercise might be something that is good for you and will help you to lead a better life, but it is not a cure for back pain. The way you think; is the key.
But if something else works better for you...and if that massage makes you feel better on any level...go to it!
Sandy |
Edited by - ssjs on 06/20/2005 11:33:21 |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:27:42
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| You make a good point, but it's not the feeling good of the massage that is the key, it is the release of the emotion. If you have a massage to increase blood flow because you think your muscles are damaged then that is bad. I don't think TMS recoverers should get massages because it could lead us back into "physical" thinking. But on the other hand, I don't think that a release of emotions is only valid as a result of talking to someone (as in psychotherapy). It seems possible that a valid release of emotions can occur as a result of a physical touch (as in acupressure or a hug), thus helping to the extent that the emotions won't be repressed or possibly that previously unconscious emotions have now become conscious. This is really pushing the boudaries of TMS therapy though, it should be kept simple and I agree with you on that. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:36:52
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quote:
it should be kept simple and I agree with you on that.
I never said it should be kept simple. I think that going through the mind is the very very very hardest thing of all to do!
Well, off to the shrink! A never ending journey!
Sandy |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 12:00:34
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| I meant that the concepts should be kept simple--in that a statement like "all massages must be a physical treatment and therefore avoided" is simple. I don't think it's quite so simple, but it is easier to follow a black and white rule. The treatment obviously is never simple. |
Edited by - johnnyg on 06/20/2005 12:23:04 |
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Marilyn
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 14:15:24
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quote]Sorry, that is my opinion...but all of these manipulations done by others to you do not do a damn bit of good in the long run if you do not do your own work. It is just an easy way out, and easy ways rarely work long term.
Sandy
Believe me........you do the work. The acupressurist helps you in the same way a psychiatrist helps you, plus she validates you. (that it is emotions and not something physically wrong.) I went to my therapist wanting to get in touch with my unconscious emotions. He told me I didn't have to worry about that, because the acupressure work was totally circumventing my conscious and targeting the repressed emotions. They really hurt when they are coming up. I am not much of a crier, but I cry when I allow the emotions to surface. The acupressurist just helps the process.
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question about tms
