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robbokop
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
 Posted - 06/24/2005 : 07:01:16
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| That support group sounds like a good idea! Now I really have to work out what my motivation for still wanting to play piano really is. I practice every day - it can be very lonely and half the time I don't feel like I enjoy it but still make myself do it so I can ACHIEVE my goal. Why do I want to achieve it, for me or for parents(one of whom isn't even here to see me doing the achieving)? This is a very tricky question, I think it's going to take me a long time to work through this and do things for the right reasons - for me. Playing piano was how I first developed RSI, and it stopped me playing for 6 months so that says a lot really. Thank you for your support Hilary. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 12:31:22
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This is an old post full of wisdom.
Since i'm presently going through a 'no communication' time with my folks and trying to set more appropriate boundaries I thought I would resurrect Hilary's and others comments that might be useful to others, especially the newcomers, here.
My parents actually look pretty good in relation to other folks parents described here; however, as I go along with my work I realize just how subtle the manipulation of children to satisfy parents needs can be.
What really accellerates my unconscious fear (and the release of the rage) in therapy in my visualization is when I tell the inner child "mom was using you to take care of her feelings".
It's absolutely true that my parents did care about myself and my brothers well being and wanted to be the parents to us that they didn't have themselves. What they didn't know, and probably still don't, is that you really can't be an effective parent if you haven't dealt with your own wounds. As Bradshaw states "It's unintention and unconscious - the manipulation of children by parents".
As a parent myself i've come to appreciate just how challenging parenthood can be. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 13:09:50
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miehsnor, thanks for bumping this up. This is one of the best threads I've ever read. I was especially struck by Hilary saying she did not remember her childhood but thought it was happy for a long time. I feel the same way. I am afraid to discover what's under there. But plowing ahead anyway...therapy appt. in 3 hours! And all the material about parental high expectations. Indeed.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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ndb
209 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 14:53:37
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Hilary, GREAT post. I'm not sure how I missed it before. As a child I had a similar dynamic with my Dad. When he would fight with my Mom, and they weren't talking, he would come to me, and ask me stuff like 'who did I think was in the wrong', or 'do I think its right that she (my mother) is not speaking with him'. Once or twice I tried saying 'I don't know, I don't have any thoughts on this.' And he replied with 'Allright, if you don't care with what's going on in our family, FINE.' Wow, what emotional blackmail. The bastard! And all this happened pretty much constantly from when I was 10 or so, old enough to feel uncomfortable when my parents fought.
I'm grateful to you for writing that post and causing me to remember all this.
ndb |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 17:08:28
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Hilary,Suz, Laura and others dealing with this family stuff,
I feel for you very much and send warm hugs of support..I am reading this topic and writing to get my mind temporarily off of my dog who is very ill..
This is a wonderful thread, full of healing insights and words of wisdom..It is helping me as well..I don't have the emotional/mental energy to get into my childhood issues with my parents etc..I can touch on a very strained relationship with my sister, however..It is relevant here..{I lost my folks 17 yrs ago and miss them terribly..Just hearing you all talk about your parents makes me miss them more,,and yet..it also helps me to think about the dysfunctional crap I dealt with as a child as well..}
I have learned that my only choice is to keep my sister at a distance..We just email now and then and when i am in NY/NJ for a major holiday I run into her..She is a recovering alcoholic who is addicted to Xanax for panic disorder..She is a narcisist..totally and utterly thinks ONLY of herself..She is much older then me and currently dating a man younger then her children! I don't mean to sound judgemental as I have dated men far younger then myself in the past..This issue is that when she is involved, she ignores her children when they need her..
My oldest neice is dealing w/ major problems in her life and relys solely on me for emotional support..I am okay with that as i love her like she was my child or younger sister..We are best friends..But lately, she is leaning on me so much that I can barely breathe..And it is my sister's lack of concern that causes my neice to have to lean so much on me..Last night, when i was crying my eyes out over my dog being so ill and in hospital, my neice called me like 10 times in a row..My friend was visiting and couldn't believe it either..I have had to set a boundary but it is tough because i love her so much..She is dealing w/ alcoholism and major financial and relationship issues..Part of what she is dealing wtih is self created by bad choices..part is not..
On top of that my b/f calls me many times a day w/ reports on the hellish physical pain he is in w/ neck/back/ears/ etc..and all his financial woes..I am the main support for both of them..Normally i can handle it, but w/ my dog this ill (KC is my child) I am at my wits end..
How does one deal w/ such rage toward a parent, a sibling who continues to hurt them and everyone they love??
I have to keep civil with her or my youngest neice might pull away from me..She tends to side w/ her mom even though, deep down, she knows she is wrong..My sister is her prime babysitter, for example, so she must keep peace with her..
My sister manipulates the whole family to walk on eggshells around her with her anxieties, angry outbursts and self absorption..I stay in loose contact only for my neices and nephews sakes..But this rage i feel, especially when she hurts my oldest neice, is probably stuck in my neck!
Right now, honestly, I can only think deeply about my doggie healing..He is defenseless and needs all my attention..I just had to drop my 2 cents on this thread because I got so much out of reading it, and I feel for each and every one of you who is suffering over these awful family issues....
Hugs,
Karen |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 04/18/2007 17:14:23 |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 11:13:32
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Parents- aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I'm presently going through the worst patch in my life with my folks right now. We agreed to not talk about a month ago and a few days ago I got the worst letter from my mom that I didn't think was possible. I was absolutely stunned by this letter. The problems run so deep and there does not appear to be a way of resolving the conflict.
The problems started a month ago when I got angry at them for violating my boundaries and speaking badly about my inlaws and my wife. It is a repeat performance of 3 years ago except this time I'm stepping in to shield my family from the negativity coming from my folks. I will not allow this kind of behavior to continue even if it means i'm going to lose my parents in the process.
This is extremely painful and I naturally have a lot of guilt surrounding it. But I have to deal with the guilt and stand up for what is right. My parents are old now and this is not what I envisioned our relationship to be in their old age.
I've had some minor flares in TMS symptoms but nothing dramatic. I think this is actually a good test for my IC to see that he will be OK and will survive even if there is a sense of abandonment going on right now.
It's also interesting to see the reaction of my parents to my own anger. Is it any wonder that I repressed anger and never let them see it when I was a child. Actually I think my IC was very insightful and understood what was and was not allowed emotionally. A great presciption for psychosomatic pain later in life. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 12:10:31
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I am realizing that it can really be a bad thing when we ask for a time out on talking about something, or time off from contact, or clearly try to avoid some subject or contact, and our parents don't let us. Both my parents are pretty classic about this, though my mom is worse. She has twice sent me email while we are living in the same house when I don't want to talk about something or don't want to talk to her. It is unbelievable to me that she cannot leave it alone for a while. I also remember some argument I was having with both of them where I wanted to make my own decision and they wanted to give me advice and I said "Let's not talk about this just now, let's talk about it later." They would not let it alone and I finally ended up actually having a screaming fight with them (very rare since anger was not allowed) yelling at them and telling them I was allowed to not feel like talking about it right then and why was it such a big deal.
I think when we take these actions of avoidance we are trying to protect ourselves and it is a major boundary violation for them to keep pushing. And it says that we don't have the right to ask this, and our feelings about it are not valid. Which is the most toxic thing for the inner child. Their way is the only right way to do it. It makes me really angry.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 14:59:49
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Micah, I want to tell you how much I appreciate getting to read through this thread, which I'd never have seen if you hadn't bumped it up. Thanks for doing that. I also have to say that I admire your courage in risking the relationship with your parents to protect your wife and children from unreasonable behavior. You're setting a great example for your children, to be able to stand up for their own rights.
As my parents aged I hoped that they would mature and mellow out enough for there to be some improvements in our rocky relationship, but instead it seemed that they regressed emotionally in many ways. In retrospect I think that their inner children came more to the fore as they aged and we ended up trying to have a relationship between all of our inner children, which didn't work out very well. The painful issues they'd never dealt with from their own childhoods blew up again, and in some ways they came to relate to me as if I was their parent and the source of their pain. They're gone now, but their last years were very difficult for me. My brothers went to no contact, because it was just too difficult for them to deal with our parents in their later years.
As a child I did understand what was allowed emotionally, and I didn't dare express anger to my parents. When they were children, they were in the same sort of situation--not allowed to express anger to their parents without some awful repercussions. My mother intentionally taught me to put the feelings of others first, to squelch my own feelings in order to avoid hurting anyone else, including her. She usually did much the same herself, suppressing her feelings when she was sober, but when she drank all the feelings came out, magnified and twisted by the alcohol. Because of what she taught me, I allowed other people to abuse me terribly in my early adulthood, until I finally learned how to put my needs and feelings first in some situations. But it's still very hard for me to stand up for myself and express what I feel and need.
ACL, I like the point you made about it being a major violation when we're trying to protect ourselves and our parents keep on pushing. It does say that our feelings don't matter as much as theirs do. I think it's fairly common for many parents to see their children as some kind of extension of themselves, and to see their children's behavior as a reflection on them, so they feel they have every right to push their way in and exert their influence on us. Sometimes they seem to feel like we "owe" them the right to have that influence, because of all they did for us during our childhood.
When we reject our parents' opinions and influence, they feel like we're rejecting them. I've tried to not repeat the cycle with my own kids, the way my parents repeated what their parents did to them, who were probably just repeating what the generation before them did, and so on down the line. While I do sometimes offer my opinions and suggestions to my kids, I try to make it clear that I respect their right to make their own decisions and to let them know that I won't feel rejected personally if they reject my ideas.
I have a book about some distant relatives who lived in the 1700's and 1800's, which shows the same things have been going on in my family for many generations. Some of them had the same type of mystery symptoms that I've had. They were pushed by family members to lead their lives in a way other than what they really wanted for themselves and they gave in to that pressure, only to pay for it with what was almost certainly TMS.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights on this resurrected thread--it's been helpful to me. Corey |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 15:12:35
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Arm- Thx for sharing your experience with your folks and for the support. I really appreciate it since this is a difficult time for me.
The piece that I keep coming back to is that there doesn't seem to be an appreciation on their part for my feelings- how might I feel about there abrasive behavior. Yes indeed it is anger producing. When the first such incident happened about 3 years ago I was stunned and just froze. At the time the IC was too scared to challenge their behavior.
That was the big breakthrough for me when my wife was surprised that I didn't stand up for her to protect her from their unfair and mean accusations and she suggested that I was unconsciously afraid of my parents and she was right. That was really the beginning of my TMS recovery. I started acting out the anger in therapy which was exactly what my symptoms were trying to protect me from.
Now it's a different story and i'm trying to set some new boundaries. I am not emotionally enmeshed with them the way I was just a few years ago and can push back and hopefully establish a better relationship. It is my hope but ultimately it is not in my hands. All I can do is control my behavior. I can't control theirs. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 15:38:33
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Littlebird- Thx for sharing your story about your folks here. I can relate to everything you have said. I fear that my parents are following a similar pattern to yours in that their inner children's dependency needs are coming out more and more as they age. It's sad to see it. I think it's common that parents don't understand that as their children grow up and become adults that they have to separate and be their own person with there own feelings. I agree that if they have major wounds that they try to control their own children and don't respect their childrens needs and feelings. They would never admit to any of this and I know they will never change. It's too late. I just have to work on my own boundaries and hope for the best.
What you said about parents feeling rejected easily is so true in my case as well. What they don't realize, because of their own wounds, is that when someone is angry its because they are hurt. It is not yet a rejection. My mom could have sent a letter reaching out to me and asking me how i felt hurt and why I was angry. Instead she sent a letter rejecting me. It was very accusatory and hurtful. She didn't even sign the letter. If that doesn't feel like abandonment I don't know what does.
I'm going to bring up the letter with my therapist in a couple days. It will be interesting to see what he suggests.
Thx again for your support. Much appreciated! |
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In the name of love
