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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2005 : 12:20:18
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| My brother was admitted to the hospital last night due to a bleeding ulcer. He has had this probelm before and I believe it to be TMS. I tried to give him the book last night at the hospital, but he did not want to read it. Has anyone had success with reading Sarno with this condition? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 14:04:16
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| Has he been taking a lot of pain killers like aspirin, naproxen, advil, etc.? |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 14:19:02
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| No, he does not take any medication. Except for maybe an occansional Nexium for acid. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 15:25:46
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Just my two cents....It might be very difficult to give someone a book with the essential message that "it's all in your head," while they're lying in a hospital bed, doing something as tangible and real and probably a frightening as bleeding in the abdomen...I'm guessing he got pretty defensive?
I'm pretty sure Dr Sarno writes about ulcers in one of his books because I think I remember thinking at the time that he might be wrong there, in that the current thinking on ulcers is that they're viral in nature (I could be wrong about that)...
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 17:04:58
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2scoops
I had a 100% failure rate in giving Dr. Sarno's book to people. Finally I realized why. The message I got from the recipients was (in different ways) "the pain is not in my head."
Now, when I give the book I say, "Look, this guy does NOT say that the pain is all in your head. Read it carefully, he says that "the pain is very real and it is caused by stress or anxiety."
The last few times have been successful. I gave the book to a mother to give to her daughter with two years of neck pain. I mention the above admonition to the mother. In one day, her pain went away. That was two months ago. She, the daughter, is still pain free.
Allan. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 17:34:19
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quote:
I had a 100% failure rate in giving Dr. Sarno's book to people. Finally I realized why. The message I got from the recipients was (in different ways) "the pain is not in my head."
People are often terribly, and understandably, defensive when it comes to their pain. For one thing, it's so easy to begin to feel unsympathized with when faced with chronic pain. On top of that, a person definitely doesn't want to think he's being told "it's all in your head" because the (oh so very wrong) implication is that the pain is therefore not real.The term psychosomatic is widely misunderstood.
I tried giving the book to just one other person, a superb runner who I'm just as sure as sure can be suffers from TMS. He's had six or eight surgeries on his knees and shoulders, and has back pain that has forced him to give up running for the most part. He never mentioned the book again to me, and I've been reluctant to ask.
On the other hand, someone gave the book to me. Maybe because I've got a background in psych, or maybe because I was sick of enriching my chiropractor, I wasn't in the least put out. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 19:13:47
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I would think most people, when they get "sick of tired of being sick and tired" will eventually come to accept the psychological pieces of their ailments. It takes some a long time. As Sarno says, "the lumbering subconscious is slow and deliberate, slow to catch on".
So most people are just not accepting of the subtleties of the mind's ability to wreak havoc on us. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2005 : 09:42:00
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Assuming the bleeding ulcer due to untreated excess stomach acid, then most definitely it can be TMS.
An "occasional" Nexium won't do the trick; that type of medication needs to be taken regularly for an extended period in order to allow the damage to heal.
Maybe this acute attack will give him some incentive to read the book... |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2005 : 09:56:52
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| I misspoke when I talked about a virus in connection with ulcers..It's bacteria that can cause them. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2005 : 09:26:47
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I misspoke when I talked about a virus in connection with ulcers..It's bacteria that can cause them.
This is a controversial issue.
The h.plyori bacteria was discovered fairly recently and is now claimed to be the cause of ulcers.
But the same bacteria is present in people without ulcers. Why does it affect some and not others?
And why did the incidence of ulcers decrease dramatically when doctors came out and said that stress is a major factor?
It is likely the bacteria is benign and irrelevant to the ulcer, much in the way a herniated disc is irrelevant to most chronic back pain. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2005 : 12:14:16
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Hi Dave,
I don't think what you say is at all unreasonable and I'm sure that's Sarno's approach. I would say the jury's still out. If people literally are bleeding when they have "bleeding" ulcers (and I'm not sure they are, I know next to nothing about ulcers), that's quite a powerful physical response. |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 12:03:29
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| Ulcers are definitely mentioned in TMS lore. Dr. Sopher, one of Sarno's disciples, mentions that they were popular in the 50s and 60s, but went out of fashion when doctors said that they were due to stress. That is- the charade was lifted. The discovery that bacteria caused ulcers did not change the stress-induced causation: the stress simply ALLOWS a weakened environment in the stomach for the bacteria to take hold. Sopher points out that currently, it's the Gastroesophageal Reflux syndrome that's trendy, but really it's the same thing. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 13:36:42
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The bleeding is due to long-term excess acid buildup in the stomach. It's the increased acid production that is the TMS symptom.
You can say "the jury is still out" but frankly, based on your posts here, I think this is one of your problems. True belief in TMS is a necessary ingredient to recovery, and it seems you're still not quite there.
Many people require a "leap of faith" to get over the initial hump. The faith is rewarded with results which in turn fortifies the belief. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 14:53:21
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| I had blood tests about 5 years ago, and the test showed h-pylori. My doc told me if the antibiotics did not help, I would have to be scoped. He told me I would always test positive for h-pylori. I have not been to the doctor for that since then. I am classic TMS profile, I also have the acid reflux,but I do not know if I had the ulcer since I have not been scoped. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2006 : 22:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
I had a 100% failure rate in giving Dr. Sarno's book to people. Finally I realized why. The message I got from the recipients was (in different ways) "the pain is not in my head."
Now, when I give the book I say, "Look, this guy does NOT say that the pain is all in your head. Read it carefully, he says that "the pain is very real and it is caused by stress or anxiety."
Sometimes TMS reminds me of this dialog. -Stryder
NEO
This isn't real?
MORPHEUS
What is real? How do you define
real? If you're talking about
your senses, what you feel, taste,
smell, or see, then all you're
talking about are electrical
signals interpreted by your brain.
(...snip...)
MORPHEUS
Good. Adaption. Improvisation.
But your weakness isn't your
technique.
Morpheus attacks him and it is like nothing we have seen.
His feet and fists are everywhere taking Neo apart. For
every blow Neo blocks, five more hit their marks until --
Neo falls.
Panting, on his hands and knees, blood spits from his
mouth speckling the white floor of the Dojo.
MORPHEUS
How did I beat you?
NEO
You -- You're too fast.
MORPHEUS
Do you think my being faster,
stronger has anything to do with
my muscles in this place?
Neo is frustrated, still unable to catch his breath.
MORPHEUS
Do you believe that's air you are
breathing now? |
Edited by - Stryder on 09/19/2006 22:33:20 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2006 : 10:23:21
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2scoops, I think you might have more success with your brother once he is not in an acute situation. I suspect it's almost impossible for someone who's just been bleeding into their stomach (a very dangerous situation if not immediately treated, the essence of acute, despite its chronic origins) to believe that the problem originates in the mind.
Having an acute attack of something dangerous may provoke reflection after the fact, but not likely at the time. At the time the person is just worn out and needs and wants to concentrate on the concrete circumstances and the immediate task of "getting better".
I wish you luck with trying again later, although, as many have noted, the success rate is low. :(
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2006 : 13:43:06
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Sarno disputes ulcers and the bacteria theory in TDM on page 25, and references a collective shift from ulcers to CTS and other musculoskeletal problems 277-278.
I can't recall where, but I remember reading that many people have this bacteria without having ulcers, so it's not absolute. (Same as people have ruptured disks and nerve damage without back pain.)
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
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Topic |
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Bleeding Ulcer
