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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2005 : 03:51:13
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I read the Forum but do not post often these days.
But I went to a very interesting lecture some days ago.
It was a highly respected professor from the University who talked about
medical diagnoses in a historical point of view.
We live in ”fin de siecle” right now - and if you look back there were A LOT
of new diagnosis a hundred year ago –neurasthenia , “sick from trains” (travelling
to fast was supposed to give you symptoms), a lot of bad fatigue, and a lot
of different muscle diagnosis .
Then suddenly most of the diagnosis (and symptoms) went away.
What happened? World war 1. There was a huge , very REAL catastrophe that captured
the peoples mind.
And these diagnosis was rare until the next fin de siecle.
We do not want a new World War !
But there is something to learn from this pattern.
Kajsa
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 04:37:30
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Interesting stuff.
Can you elaborate or give us a book to read on this? |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2005 : 06:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Interesting stuff.
Can you elaborate or give us a book to read on this?
Well I have some interesting and good articles/books about this subject.
But not in English !
Though I am sure that similar research and studies have been done in
USA.
Kajsa |
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celestica
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2005 : 07:34:19
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I read an excellent one by a Toronto historian named Edward Shorter, called From Paralysis to Fatigue, a history of Psychosomatic Illnesses Throughout the Ages (title may not be exact)
It was comprehensive and really fascinting.
Amelia |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2005 : 08:24:59
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That's very interesting Kajsa.I also remember in College statistical sociology they mentioned that suicide rates go down during wars,as do most mental afflictions.
It used to be OK to HATE somebody (The Nazi's,the Communists,the "bad" guys) ....Now,all HATE has been censored by political correcness and people don't have an object of passion into which to misdirect all their personal anger,so they sort of implode......George Orwell in "1984" talked about the "5 minute Hate"....if you read the book in context of our modern problems and the effectiveness of Gestalt in TMS,it gives you even a greater insight into his intuitive genius.
People NEED a punching bag,and wars give them that scapegoat.
Unfortunately,we are sort of pioneers into the "goatless" generation...learning to let it out without a victim.
Great topic
Baseball65 |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2005 : 05:07:14
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a Toronto historian named Edward Shorter, called From Paralysis to Fatigue, a history of Psychosomatic Illnesses Throughout the Ages (title may not be exact)
It was comprehensive and really fascinting.
Amelia
[/quote]
Thank you.
I will get that book. Sounds great. And it is really very "hgood for your own symptoms" to get that historical point of view.
It help you to really feel that it is emotions /social thing that
is the real cause of them. And you loose your big respect of medical diagnoses.
Kajsa |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2005 : 08:13:13
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I've got to read that book! It sounds fascinating. I'm a voracious reader - always have been, to a ridiculous degree. If I see a review, or hear from someone that a book is good - I can't rest until I have a copy. Amazon has fuelled my book mania - I dread to think how much I've spent over the last few years with them.
I have to confess - I read this post - straight on to amazon.co.uk. Edward Shorter's book takes from four to six weeks to arrive. Didn't want to wait that long, so I've ordered a second-hand copy from the US. It should be here in just over a week. Some of his other books look interesting as well.
My book mania has to be part of my TMS personality. I remember as a kid of seven crying my eyes out in hospital after a tonsilectomy (that's a case in
pointt; at that time nearly all kids were diagnosed with bad tonsils and operated on. You hardly ever hear of that any more) - not because I was in pain, not because my parents had left me there by myself - no-one would bring me a book!
A couple of other health 'problems' from my youth - growing pains (whatever they were) and you had to wear 'sensible' shoes because your ankles needed support - ankles were deemed to be weak in those days.
I'm not so sure about your hate censorship idea, Baseball. I guess it might be different in America because I don't think you have the equivalent of our British tabloid 'newspapers'. They whip up hate constantly. At the moment it's asylum seekers that are the object of their frenzied attacks - whipping up feelings of hatred among sections of the population.
Do people really need a punching bag? I'm not so sure they do. Just thinking about my family and friends (which is not enough evidence to go on, I know); those that are genuinely without rancour don't appear to suffer from TMS.
Very thought provoking topic, Kajsa
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2005 : 08:58:36
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Hi Anne
Oh,by NO means are we a Hate free society.....we are minions of television and political correctness,while at the same time being thrown into pressure cookers of social and cultural conflict,which are not given any time to acclimate,but are conducted at the speed of "reason" which all TMSers know is a lot slower than what our subconscious mind can stand.
Every other person in the US is ADHD,Bi-polar,Bulemic,depressed,carpal tunnel,backpained,and on meds for the treatment of alleged malady.
My wife told me virtually ALL of her employess take some sort of anti-depressant.
where did all the illness come from??
\
just a thought
Baseball65 |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2005 : 17:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
.if you read the book in context of our modern problems and the effectiveness of Gestalt in TMS,it gives you even a greater insight into his intuitive genius.Baseball65
Baseball- I kind of ignorant wrt Gestalt therapy wrt TMS. What is that all about? |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 07:38:34
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Hi miehnesor
Gestalt therapy usually involves a person(s) selecting some sort of object/idea/person who will represent the object/idea/person who the person is REALLY angry with,except the Gestalt focus is just a sort of surrogate....than they unload all the feelings,anger,frustration,loneliness into that surrogate(which is safe and cannot or will not respond).
If one is angry at one's Father for being abusive,but the Father is either dead,frail,or too far away to actually confront,OR if the person is still too afraid of the Father,Gestalt therapy is employed as a sort of catharsis.
It is VERY effective in TMS banishment,as Sarno is pretty certain it is the feeling generated and repressed that is the culprit....Gestalt is a good way to let those type of feelings out,in a totally safe environment.I've used it quite effectively in work and Family situations ,where the price of confronting the real person(s) was more than my psychic pocketbook could afford that week.
In 1984,people were led into rooms where a screen showed them the face of "Goldstein" a sort of National scapegoat....the entire crowd would whip itself into a frenzy hurling epithets and curse words,gnashing their teeth and letting it fly.....in the story,it becomes clear that this is the governments way of letting frustration and anger with ITSELF be vented out of the people in a harmless(to the government) fashion.
Blacks,Tories,Confederates,Mexicans,Germans,Hitler,Stalin,Commies....
we as a culture have always had a "Goldstein" in the past.....someone who we could unabashedly direct all of our anger and it was "OK" by societies standards....until the late 80's and the advent of "political correctness"
Now,No one can be the scapegoat......oh.....some arise for a minute,but 60 minutes or 20/20 does an article on the problem and they land in the "do no touch" bin.......some recent ones were Osama bin Laden and Zarqawi.They like Goldstein are "the problem" and somehow ,they are never caught(do they exist at all?)
As we evolve intellectually and spiritually,we don't need to have these,but for the great majority of people who feel victimized and helpless by multinational corporate imperialism and their own technological consumer somnambulism,they are an integral part of their day........I know,....I have worked with many a fellow who is a well informed,television watching armchair international strategist.....and pushing a paint brush.....and hating that "damned Zarqawi".....and having his mini gestalt session with his very own Rush Limbaugh during his drive home.
pieces
Baseball65 |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 18:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
It is VERY effective in TMS banishment,as Sarno is pretty certain it is the feeling generated and repressed that is the culprit....Gestalt is a good way to let those type of feelings out,in a totally safe environment.I've used it quite effectively in work and Family situations ,where the price of confronting the real person(s) was more than my psychic pocketbook could afford that week.
Baseball65
Thx a lot Baseball for that very descriptive explanation. I think i've been doing some Gestalt work alone and in therapy but didn't have a name for it. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 18:05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
It is VERY effective in TMS banishment,as Sarno is pretty certain it is the feeling generated and repressed that is the culprit....Gestalt is a good way to let those type of feelings out,in a totally safe environment.I've used it quite effectively in work and Family situations ,where the price of confronting the real person(s) was more than my psychic pocketbook could afford that week.
Baseball65
Thx a lot Baseball for that very descriptive explanation. I think i've been doing some Gestalt work alone and in therapy but didn't have a name for it. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 22:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
....Now,all HATE has been censored by political correcness and people don't have an object of passion into which to misdirect all their personal anger,so they sort of implode......
Great topic
Great reply BB65.
There is a concept I read in a sci-fi book (Dune) that goes something like this...
....if a human is caught in a trap, what differentiates the human from an animal is that the human will endure the pain and stay in the trap in the hope that revenge can be taken when the trapper returns.....
I've realized that the do-gooder (TMSer) will not only endure the pain, but allow themselves to trapped, again, over and over again until they "implode".
Great thread. -Stryder |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2005 : 14:25:46
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I guess this is moving off topic in a way, but these posts are very thought provoking. I guess that do-goodism and a TMS prone personality often go hand in hand.
There is a group that it's OK to hate, bigtime - the politically correct - everyone hates them. Do THEY even exist? |
Edited by - n/a on 06/01/2005 14:27:06 |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 12:46:29
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Anne,
Oh, they exist all right--especially in a university setting where I work. I tend not to be a PC kind of person and am always getting myself in trouble with offhand remarks. |
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diagoses and patterns
