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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2009 : 14:21:22
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Hello
I'm new to the forum, having discovered Dr Sarno's books about a month ago and this website today!
From reading Healing Backpain and various reviews and websites, I feel sure that I have TMS in the form of low back pain and sciatica.
I've come to this conclusion through thinking and writing about my situation when my pain started 42 years ago and the facts that it a) wasn't much helped by a laminectomy in 1984 and b) that I have had periods when I have been completely and mysteriously (until now!)painfree, plus my personality 'fits'....but after three weeks of intensive reading and writing and uncovering all sorts of 'unacceptable' emotions, my pain seems to be, if anything, worse, except for short periods when the writing has made me cry - something that has always seemed to relieve my pain temporarily.
I have two queries -
1) I normally manage to live a pretty active and 'normal' life mainly by thinking about my pain as little as possible and telling it that I have more interesting things to think about and would it mind piping down! I'm wondering whether I might be simply more AWARE of my pain because of focusing on it so much in the past few weeks?
2) Is it at all likely that the fact that my pain started so long ago will mean that it will take longer to get rid of?
I am in Wales, UK, so I don't have access to any doctors who could definitely diagnose TMS - previous diagnoses, about 17 years ago were 'scarring to the nerve roots' (by a consultant) or chronic severe sacro-iliac strain (by an osteopath with a very good reputation but the consultant said there was no such thing!). So I would very much appreciate any advice or encouragement as I'm feeling a little disappointed after reading reviews of Dr Sarno's books in which one reviewer after another recorded instant pain relief!
With many thanks in advance! |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 17:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
Hello
I'm new to the forum, having discovered Dr Sarno's books about a month ago and this website today!
From reading Healing Backpain and various reviews and websites, I feel sure that I have TMS in the form of low back pain and sciatica.
I've come to this conclusion through thinking and writing about my situation when my pain started 42 years ago and the facts that it a) wasn't much helped by a laminectomy in 1984 and b) that I have had periods when I have been completely and mysteriously (until now!)painfree, plus my personality 'fits'....but after three weeks of intensive reading and writing and uncovering all sorts of 'unacceptable' emotions, my pain seems to be, if anything, worse, except for short periods when the writing has made me cry - something that has always seemed to relieve my pain temporarily.
I have two queries -
1) I normally manage to live a pretty active and 'normal' life mainly by thinking about my pain as little as possible and telling it that I have more interesting things to think about and would it mind piping down! I'm wondering whether I might be simply more AWARE of my pain because of focusing on it so much in the past few weeks?
2) Is it at all likely that the fact that my pain started so long ago will mean that it will take longer to get rid of?
I am in Wales, UK, so I don't have access to any doctors who could definitely diagnose TMS - previous diagnoses, about 17 years ago were 'scarring to the nerve roots' (by a consultant) or chronic severe sacro-iliac strain (by an osteopath with a very good reputation but the consultant said there was no such thing!). So I would very much appreciate any advice or encouragement as I'm feeling a little disappointed after reading reviews of Dr Sarno's books in which one reviewer after another recorded instant pain relief!
With many thanks in advance!
Hi
Out of interest where are you from in Wales? I live just outside of Pontypridd in South Wales |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 12:53:08
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Thanks for your reply, Pan - I'm English but living in Abergavenny.
Hi all
Still no reduction in pain in spite of talking very firmly to my brain 
But then I've been really pushing myself - doing lots of gardening today, carrying quite heavy pots full of soil and standing far longer than I normally allow myself to.
It's occurred to me that although I'm pretty sure I have TMS, there's a tiny niggling voice in the background all the time, saying 'What if it's not? What if I really should be a bit more careful of my sacro-iliac joint?'
For a while, years back, I was a sort of voluntary helpline for people with back pain and noticed that practically everyone who, like myself - and my mother and one of my sisters! - had more than two children, had similar pain.
On the other hand, how do I account for the two years or so (2001-03) when I was on benefits and didn't need to work and was so painfree that I felt like a fraud? I certainly wasn't inactive during that time - I moved house almost single-handed, did a lot of decorating and painting! (I've worked out through journaling that I have a lot of anxiety and other issues around earning my living, even though I love my work, because I'm self-employed and it's a very up-an-down business, especially at the moment!)
And how come I can stand for about an hour with no ill-effects when I'm painting, but only a couple of minutes in a queue in Tesco?
It's those thoughts that are keeping me going with the Dr Sarno method but I must say, I've been tempted to give up today. 
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 14:27:54
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Hi Flutterby,
I'm sorry to hear that you have been feeling discouraged recently. I'd definitely encourage you to keep with it. Many people have had their lives completely transformed by following through with Sarno's "work." You are not at all alone when you say that healing has not been immediate. It isn't immediate for many people.
It may encourage you to read success stories by TMS sufferers with similar stories to your own. I'm a TMS sufferer as well and have made a wiki about TMS with pages of success stories for people diagnosed with Sciatica and for people diagnosed with back pain. You may also want to check out our collection of TMS YouTube videos and some of the videos available from our internet resources page.
I'm also setting up a "Q&A section with an expert" section at the wiki. David Schechter (MD), Georgie Oldfield (MCSP), John Stracks (MD), and Barbara Kline (LCSW-C) have already submitted answers. You can find bios for each of them at the bottom of this page. I thank them all for generously agreeing to donate their time.
I think that your second question would make a great Q&A question, so will forward it to Dr. Howard Schubiner, who was the one who first suggested having a Q&A section at the wiki. I'll get back to you after I've posted his answer. Dr. Schubiner's website is http: //www. yourpainisreal.com/ (remove the spaces; forum policy is that we can't link to any website that makes money. The wiki doesn't make money, so I can link to it.)
You may also be interested in the Q&A answered by Georgie Oldfield entitled flare-ups after journaling. It sounds like your recent increase in pain is probably related to what she describes on that page.
Incidentally, Georgie is from Huddersfield in Northern England. I've corresponded with one of her patients who reports that she is incredibly supportive. She does provide support over the phone and in a time like this, I think that you might find her support very helpful. I met her at the recent TMS conference, and she struck me as a very kind person. She really has a passion for spreading the word about TMS in the UK. Her website is http: //tmsrecovery.com/ (remove the spaces).
Forest |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 14:33:39
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Hi flutterby,
Welcome to the forum!
I also gave up on Sarno first time around because I didn't get immediate results (from reading the book that's what I was expecting). Luckily I met someone who had healed from reading the book - he also had instant results, but as he was so enthusiastic, I decided to try again.
Click on my profile to see my story.
There are 2 doctors and a physio in the UK who have visited Sarno and work with TMS:
http://tmsrecovery.com/practitioners/
Hilary N |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 16:08:00
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Thank you both so much for your encouraging and supportive replies!
Strangely (or perhaps not!) I have had less pain this evening since I read your replies earlier and I do have, I've discovered, a lot of issues around feeling 'unsupported' even though I come across as someone who 'copes' expremely well and am generally very independent!!! So maybe it's not so strange after all!
I've read the 'flare-ups after journaling' link and found that reassuring - I had actually wondered whether it was my brain fighting back as a result of opening up my 'can of worms' and it seems my hunch may have been right.
I must say that I am SO impressed with this website and forum and with the wiki - messageboards for people with problems can so easily become very negative, supporting the problems rather than supporting the people in finding solutions! I think that what I've found here is to be treasured and I know it is hard work to maintain such a website and forum so a Big Thankyou to all involved!
I'm off to do my journaling now but will explore all the other links as soon as I can!
THANK YOU! |
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crk
124 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 17:04:04
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Hi Flutterby,
You can read my suggestions in the Success Stories forum under "It's Leaving - Again." From what you mentioned I think you could benefit from a 3 or 4 times daily review of those issues that trigger your pain the worst. While you are reviewing them, if your pain gets worse, you know that you are on to something. Keep focusing on the bad trigger, repeat it if you can. The daily repetitions will help your brain to believe that you really are going to have a good look at those painful issues. If you are a people pleaser (goodism), keep reminding yourself that it stems from feeling inferior or unwanted, and Child Primitive is furious about that.
I have a few phrases that I use when I'm fighting my TMS triggers. Yes, I still get them, though they are quite weak now. As Sarno mentions, the unconscious is timeless and does not forgive or "get over it." One of my big triggers is people judging me. If I am out for a run and a person or group of people is walking toward me, I will often get a little twinge somewhere - a tms trigger. What helps me is to look straight at these innocent strangers and picture them as my family. Then I say in my mind, "You hurt me. You abandoned me. You failed me." And I try to get in touch with that deep anger.
At the same time, it is very important to pay as little attention to the pain as you can. I often get pain in one foot or one leg, and to ignore it I concentrate hard on the "good" leg. Feel the good leg or other body part with your fingers or wiggle it to feel it more. If the pain screams out, say "go away, faker" and try again.
These are all additional thoughts to what I put in my success story. I have found that the brain is so clever and the same thing will not always work in each case. But it is really important for me to continually remind myself that I will triumph. I always do!
There is one more thing I want to mention. Your question makes me think that there have been some periods of low level pain that you are able to either keep at bay or minimize. I would encourage you to have a no-tolerance approach to these little pains. Not that you should increase your fear or concern about them, but that you should practice the Sarno cure program for even the smallest pains. For me, those are the ones that can grow to worse pain if life's tms triggers get pulled.
Good luck. It's been useful to me to put this all in black and white. :) |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 20:21:15
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quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
I would very much appreciate any advice or encouragement as I'm feeling a little disappointed after reading reviews of Dr Sarno's books in which one reviewer after another recorded instant pain relief!
I think that resolution of symptoms comes slowly for an aweful lot of people. In fact, my guess is that most people don't have the instant pain relief that you mention. You may like the following quote from PegHanson's success storyquote:
I don't want to mislead anyone. I did not have an instantaneous resolution of my symptoms (although I now know people who have). It has been a gradual process of healing and self discovery for me, but well worth it. I have had occasional episodes of some discomfort over the years (during stressful times) but now I know how to address it and can make it go away pretty easily. The most important thing is that it has never been as bad as it was at it's worst, and most of the time I have no pain at all. I no longer have fear and I know that I am healthy and strong. I have no limitations in what I can do. I have proven that to myself over and over again in the past 8 years since recovering using Dr. Sarno's information. Probably the most physical things I have been able to do is that I painted an entire house, took a dance class, learned scuba and just last year I rode a bicycle 110 miles in a day (having trained for it in only 3 weeks).
Forest
tmswiki.org |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 03:06:24
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Thank you both for your replies - you've given me lots to think about! Peg Hanson's story was particularly reassuring. I will need to summon up my patience - not my strongest point!
Something occurred to me yesterday that made me laugh! I think my impatience and frustration with myself about the slowness of my progress is a manifestation of my need to be a 'star pupil', 'top of the class', something I've been aware of for a long time and thought I'd dealt with twenty years or so ago. But here it is popping up its head again! Yet another thing to write in my journal about!
I'm not a perfectionist in the usual sense - in fact I'm quite slapdash in many aspects of my life. But maybe this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality? |
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 03:54:07
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Hi Flutterby, welcome to the forum
I'd be careful not to try and be best in class, you made a valid comment about being in pain a long time and it may take a while to get better. In particular the conditioning may take a while to disappear, your comment about Tesco's sounds like conditioning. I had SI pain for 10 yrs and after a year of addressing my TMS I am pain free. You can read my story Here on the Success Stories Forum
Good luck.
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 04:45:34
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quote:
But maybe this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality?
Yes, and very common!
Hilary N |
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crk
124 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 08:14:24
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quote:
... a manifestation of my need to be a 'star pupil', 'top of the class' ... this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality?
Definitely, it feeds into the tms. You have to be careful not to give your subconscious mind an added dose of rage by the effort of trying not to be perfect. Double whammy. "Letting go" and awareness will help.
It's funny, because one of the tms reminders is "I will be in control, not my subconscious mind." I have to revise that one to read: "I will be in control of what physical actions I do. I will let go of trying to control life's circumstances, the opinions of others, and my own striving to be perfect." |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 10:14:27
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Hi flutterby (by the way, I think your name is clever!)
I'm glad to hear that you liked Peg's success story. I've sent her an email to let her know of this thread and maybe she'll even say hi.
I'm glad to see that other people are posting, too. This forum is a great place to get support, so it surprised me to see that it took a day for someone to try answering your questions.
Dr. Schubiner has already answered the question, "My pain started 42 years ago ... Is it at all likely that the fact that my pain started so long ago will mean that it will take longer to get rid of it?" You can find his answer here: My pain started long ago. Will it take a longer time to get rid of it?
Incidentally, I've got 4 TMS doctors, 2 TMS therapists, and 1 TMS author/physiotherapist lined up to answer everyone's questions about TMS (for free!). If anyone wants to have their questions answered, please let me know. Right now, we actually have more experts than questions, so we need your question! I don't want to clutter up flutterby's thread, but you can post your questions in this thread here on these forums (click here).
Questions that have already been answered include:
Forest |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 14:00:29
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Thank you all, once again, for your messages of support and information. I am gradually working my way through all the links and thinking about how they apply to me.
The good news is that I've had two better days - though it's too early to know whether this is just due to the normal fluctuation in my pain level. Having said that, though, I've done a lot of things in defiance of my pain-producing brain and don't seem to be any the worse for it!
That's raised another query though, I'm afraid! I'm not at all sure what a nearly 66 yr old woman would 'normally' expect to be able to do in terms of physical chores, such as gardening.
I realise that all of my friends, some ten years younger than I am, seem to be suffering from some ailment or other so I have nothing to compare with. I don't suppose anyone will be able to answer this query as everyone is so different but if there are any oldies like me out there, your input would be very much appreciated.
I also have a kind neighbour who loves to 'look after' people and I'm having a lot of difficulty persuading him to stop saying 'don't do that' or 'let me do that' constantly! It has always irritated me but I think showing him a quote from 'Healing Back Pain' on this subject may be beginning to get through to him. But even so, it's an ingrained habit with him and I think it will take time for him to break that habit.
And on the subject of habits, in spite of what Dr Schubiner says about recovery time, I have the feeling that pandamonium's comment about conditioning may turn out to be my biggest obstacle. For instance, I've 'known' for years that my pain gets worse as the day goes on and lo and behold, even after most of the day has been virtually painfree, I'm having to lecture my brain very sternly this evening as it was a while before I became aware that I was falling into my usual pattern of pain in the late afternoon. I am so used to taking it for granted! And I'm sure there will be lots more instances of conditioning to identify and that could take time, especially as I'm pretty busy with absorbing work and it can easily creep up on me unnoticed.
One thing that has just occurred to me when I just wrote that I'm pretty busy, is that maybe I simply get tired but don't want to admit it. It seems more justifiable to put my feet up and watch the television because of my backpain than to be 'just' tired. Hmmm!
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Peg
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 15:59:05
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Hi Flutterby,
Glad my success story was of help. Fell free to e-mail me through this forum or send a message at the wiki if I can be of any help to you. As I said, my recovery was gradual with many ups and downs, but successful none the less. Nothing else had worked as you can see.
I see many excellent insights in your posts, they indicate to me that you will be successful as well. Just keep with it. I agree with you that conditioning and trying to do the tms recovery perfectly are big impediments to progress. I certainly experienced that. I used to beat myself up and felt like a failure because I wasn't totally pain free, or wasn't pain free fast enough, etc
I liken tms recovery to being a detective. you have already identified inconsistencies in your pain patterns. If the problem was structural, it wouldn't disappear at certain times. This is evidence of tms. There is also scientific evidence/studies that support Dr. Sarno's theory (such as the findings of herniated, bulging discs, spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc, in people with NO back pain). Also, the information in many excellent books listed on the tmswiki, support this approach (more or less).
I wouldn't think twice about your age. The people I know that have lived to 100, stayed active, including gardening. Do whatever you love to do. Don't let a number (or expectations) dictate that. There are people in their 70's who found this information and recovered from many years of tms.
You'll find a wealth of information on this forum as well as at the excellent links that forest provided.
Take care,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 01:58:27
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My pain also worsened as the day went on, I used to prepare the evening meal on an office type chair with wheels, zooming back and forth because I couldn't stand any more but my kids needed feeding seems such a long time ago now but it was only a year ago.
Not sure where in the UK you are but there are a few of us meeting in Richmond (Surrey) tomorrow evening; in the unlikely event you live anywhere nearby, (post probably on next page now) come along.
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 12:10:28
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Hi all - just to say I've had a second amazingly painfree day, in spite of doing all sorts of things that I 'shouldn't' have, such as hoovering on the same day that I did the shopping and standing in a long queue at the PO. And all the lugging big bags of potting compost about on Sunday, which would normally have affected me 48 hrs later, doesn't seem to have produced any pain at all!
I'm finding that talking to my brain out loud is the way to go! I know from multisensory teaching that it's more effective if the pupils say things out loud so I'm applying that principal here! (Lucky that I live alone - I'll have to watch myself in queues in shops!!!)
But I'm not 'counting my chickens' yet - on Wednesdays and Thursdays I teach non-stop in the late afternoon/early evening and usually end up in a state of collapse by the time the pupils have left. So I won't let it discourage me if tomorrow and Thursday aren't as good. But on the other hand, that is a bit of 'conditioning' I'll need to deal with.
Peg, thank you for your reply. I loved your reference to being a 'detective'! I've always thought I might have enjoyed some aspects of being a detective as I always want to get to the bottom of things, hunting for clues, piecing them all together etc!
'I wouldn't think twice about your age. The people I know that have lived to 100, stayed active, including gardening. Do whatever you love to do. Don't let a number (or expectations) dictate that. There are people in their 70's who found this information and recovered from many years of tms.'
This may sound silly, but I've just remembered that I also have osteoporosis so maybe I should be a bit careful! I had a falling out with a pair of steps 12 years ago, fell about 8 ft flat on my back and was carted off to A&E where I was X-rayed. My low back, which is my usual trouble spot, was completely unaffected but an 'old' vertebral fracture showed up in my thoracic spine - and I broke some ribs. Was in considerable pain from that for nearly three months and when I was told I had osteoporosis, I joined the Osteoporosis Society. But they sent me such gruesome leaflets, warning that I could break my wrist brushing my hair, or break my pelvis taking a dish out of the oven, so I had to ask them to stop sending them. And once the pain was gone, I hardly thought about it any more. Although I take my medication regularly (last dexa-scan showed that I'm 'normal for my age') I normally tend to forget all about it!
I shouldn't imagine that osteoporosis is likely to be a manifestation of TMS and I haven't seen it on any of the lists of ailments and conditions. But if anyone knows different, I'd be glad to hear it!
And pandamoniom - I loved your image of zooming around in an office chair! I wish I'd thought of that when my children were young. I love cooking but I used to find myself standing on one foot, with a big frown on my face more often than not and wishing I could have given them their main meal in the middle of the day!
I'm afraid I won't be able to join your gathering in London - I'm in Wales and in any case, I'll be working. But have a super time and maybe one day we can arrange something similar in Cardiff?
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Edited by - flutterby on 05/12/2009 12:13:39 |
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Peg
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:06:54
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>"I've always thought I might have enjoyed some aspects of being a detective as I always want to get to the bottom of things, hunting for clues, piecing them all together etc!"
Me too!!!!
Glad you're having better days.
I personally don't worry about osteoporosis and won't take medications that may cause me problems. I read an excellent article titled "The Marketing of Osteoporosis". Very interesting. Makes you think. It can be found at this link:
http://journals.lww.com/ajnonline/Fulltext/2009/04000/The_Marketing_of_Osteoporosis.41.aspx
Thanks for the tip on talking out loud working best. Gave me a chuckle, but I believe that it would be more effective.
Take care,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
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Peg
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:10:14
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Although, on second thought, if I had had a bad fall like you with multiple fractures, I might reconsider taking something to strengthen my bones.
I've heard weight bearing exercise and weight training increase bone density too. Maybe gardening would qualify?
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
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flutterby
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 15:49:32
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Peg, I actually only cracked a rib or two when I fell off the ladder, which is quite remarkable since it was quite a fall! The hospital thought the crush fracture in my spine was probably from a typical 'banana-skin' slip on some ice a couple of years previously, which had only appeared to cause me some temporary jarring of my neck at the time. The fracture itself gave me no pain at all until I 'stirred it up' in the later ladder incident.
And yes, weight-bearing exercises are the thing for osteoporosis. AFAIK, going up and down stairs is the best thing of all - and I have an old three-storey house with plenty of stairs! I paint on my top floor and have to come down to the ground floor to change my paint water or make a cuppa so I get plenty of exercise that way. Bungalows aren't always the best choice for retirement in this respect! Besides the views of the mountains from my top windows are glorious!
Finding it difficult to believe how pain-free I am this evening, when I really 'shouldn't' be! I'm having a very stressful time in lots of areas of my life at the moment so it's all the more remarkable and even if it doesn't last, I now know what's possible! |
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Just discovered TMS - any advice?
