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jeffRCarlson
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 08/10/2006 : 10:45:29
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quote:
Originally posted by sonora sky
[quote]
People have been doing repetitive tasks for hundreds of years, certainly since the industrial revolution. All of a sudden there is an epidemic of RSIs, but not because people are doing any more repetitive tasks than before. Think of the horrible sweatshop/assembly line conditions in the 19th century--why didn't these people develop CTS? Or the unfortunate conditions in which some people live and work today in '3rd world' countries. Why isn't there an epedemic of CTS in China?
I find it extremely hard to believe that these problems didn't exist. One thing you are not taking into account his back then there was no Internet for these people to connect together. There were not three televisions in every home so that people could become aware that others with the same problem.
Anyone who has been an athlete knows that if you overtrain for anything you end up with an injury. The body takes a certain amount time to recover and adapt when overworked. If you do not allow sufficient recovery time you continue to break down the muscles and tendons and tissues faster than they can repair and rebuild themselves.
This is why so many professional athletes used steroids. It allows their body to recover and repair faster so that they can get more workouts in the same period of time.
So given this is a well-known fact about athletics which involves repetitive tasks and muscle/tissue repair and recovery why is it so hard to believe that doing something simple and light repetitively can eventually break down the tissues faster than they can recover over an extended period of time?
As a weight lifter if I stick 80 pounds on the barbell and do 15 reps before my arms cannot do it anymore or a stick 10 pounds on and do it 300 times or 2 1bs and do it 3000 times in all cases I eventually completely fatigue the muscles.
If you did this every day you would end up with an injury because the reason muscles are fatigued as they have been overworked and they need time to recover. If you allow sufficient recovery time than you would build endurance and be able to perform it for long periods of time without injury.
However determining where you crossed the threshold from building and strengthening to breaking down and damaging is probably more difficult to determine when doing easy tasks thousands of times compared to heavy tasks a few times.
Thanks jrc
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2006 : 11:22:04
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Read the book and see what you think. Most people on this forum are skeptical about the RSI concept, and believe it is a manifestation of TMS.
Some things to think about re: RSI:
- It often occurs when there has been no specific change in routine.
- People with RSI often have other problems that can be symptoms of TMS.
- RSI may not improve with decrease of the offending activity.
- Why was there no RSI when people were typing on manual typewriters for 8 hours a day? If it is really related to overwork of the muscles, that should have been a far more common problem then...
You have to decide for yourself whether you believe it or not, but Sarno's is the general approach of this forum. I would agree with checking out the aforementioned RSI sites, as well as Sarno's books. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2006 : 15:46:23
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Jeff,
You definitely need to read the book and assess how it fits with your personality and profile, and also check out Nate's site. The bottom line is that RSI being an actual injury doesn't fit with a lot of facts. For me, the prime fact is just my own and others' recovery. If I had had a 'real injury', I couldn't have gone from severely injured, unable to type without pain for more than 5 min, no therapy working to bring me back to functional levels, to being fully active and typing 8 hours a day in a matter of weeks, when the typical profile for "recovery" from "severe RSI" is a return to modified duty (no all-day typing) in six months or more.
It's hard to question the physical-cause indoctrination that we're given, because it all sounds kind of sensible -- that excess repetitive motion is bad, that we must have suddenly started sitting funny or typing more to start it off. But the more I thought about it the less logic I saw. Why do some people who do all the 'bad' things in their typing never get RSI? Why do some people get it only a little, and others badly, when they do the same amount of typing? Why does everyone have different activities that trigger it? Why does everyone have different symptoms? Why does so much tightness in other parts of the body often accompany RSI? Why is the pain not always the worst in the tightest or most-used spots? Why do some treatments work for some people but not others? Why do some people fail to be helped by any treatment?
I heard similar justifications for my knee and foot pain (also gone now). My bones were aligned funny, my thighs were too weak, I had Morton's foot, I had hurt my foot by walking on worn-out shoes. Just as many questions there -- my Morton's foot was mild, so why was the pain severe? Why was the pain worse in one foot than the other? Why did walking with shoes on hurt, but not being barefoot or jogging? The answer turned out to be that the alleged 'causes' weren't causing the pain.
I don't doubt that muscle tightness can be a mechanism and/or contributing factor in RSI. That's basically the theory I used to subscribe to, under the specific name "trigger points". But I don't think it's the cause. I still have trigger points and muscle tightness, but I don't have pain anymore.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
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bigbadpete
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2006 : 18:13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
I still have trigger points and muscle tightness, but I don't have pain anymore.
ACL, how can you have trigger points, but no pain? I thought trigger points were almost entirely defined by the pain they cause. If you don't have any pain, then you probably don't have trigger points, or they're all latent. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2006 : 20:44:36
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffRCarlson
I find it extremely hard to believe that these problems didn't exist. One thing you are not taking into account his back then there was no Internet for these people to connect together. There were not three televisions in every home so that people could become aware that others with the same problem.
...so that the unconscious could not learn what conditions were in vogue and likely to be taken seriously by the sufferer.
quote:
Anyone who has been an athlete knows that if you overtrain for anything you end up with an injury.
Of course. But there's a difference between an athelete getting injured performing a physically demanding task, or overtraining as you say, and RSI. Of course, if you type at a computer keyboard all day, your fingers will probably hurt. But do you really think our bodies are so fragile that we can't handle typing at a computer? You believe our bodies are not so remarkably adaptive such that they can handle this task? How about all the secretaries in the old days who used manual typewriters? Why was their no epidemic of RSI back then?
Your train of thought is exactly what keeps the pain going. You are completely convinced there is a rational structural explanation for the pain. Your unconscious mind is achieving its goal.
I have no problem with debates on this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you do not have to agree with the TMS theory. The problem is, you are debating in a vaccuum. You do not know anything about the TMS theory because you have not read the book. How can you disagree with something you do not understand?
Please, read the book before debating any further. If afterwards you still want to debate TMS, this forum will still be here. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2006 : 11:34:59
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BBPete,
That's correct, my trigger points are latent. However, they are not defined by the pain they cause. They are defined by tenderness on pressure in certain areas (that's how I know I have them -- I can feel the tenderness if I press down). The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook states that it's important to keep working on latent trigger points until they are gone, or else any slight strain will bring back the pain. I have found this to be false in my case. My trigger points seem to be only activated by my brain to cause TMS pain.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2006 : 17:01:27
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Hey, fellow Dragon-user,
You’re making me feel all nostalgic because I miss my Dragon (I was dependent on it for years).
But I don’t miss my RSI.
Hilary N |
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So how do you tell TMS from a real injury?
