| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SarnoSoldier |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 06:27:49
I know I have TMS and that is all it is. I get back pain every day of my life. It goes through stages. Some times it is sciatica, sometimes it is just in the back, and sometimes it all goes away. I am going through a real rough time right now. I am fine when I sit, but when I get up to walk, I get a real intense strange sensation in my low back. It is so uncomfortable. I am so scared and anxious about how long this will last and when i will be normal again. This has been going on 3 years now. I started reading Dr. Siegels book Backsense since Dr. Sarno's books I have memorized. I was conditioned to experience pain as I went about my day, but now everything is different. Today, my pain is more of a reaction to walking. I need help breaking this routine that I am in. Please help me. I am such a worrier and always let these symptoms take over my life. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/29/2005 : 15:25:45
James (Sarno soldier), I just tuned into your condition. Pretty much a local boy in “Jersey”(south that is.)
I have a lot to share with you if your interested, been doin the Tms stuff for a while now, pretty much got a good grip over it. I have a wife and 3 children, with many stories to tell ,been through the ruff, but have come through.
So I would be willing to share with you how I broke my TMS pain cycle after 22 years of chronic pain.
I do have a lot on my plate, but not too much to help a brother in need.
So you will have to give me your email and if you are interested I will call you in the eve one night.
Hope you understand I do not have the time nor the ability to type large amounts info to cover much material via e-mail.
Take care
Kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/29/2005 : 10:10:02
Hi Fredarm57,
Good job! You found the quote I recall from Dr. Gwozdz's web site that struck my attention also. I have seen two TMS doctors who both told me my hip was arthritis and NOT TMS. I am leaving myself open to the possibility of needing to do something surgically in the future but am in no hurry. My situataion started with a big relationship breakup that exposed itself in the TMS physical symptom of a painful back. It was diagnosed by a quack-o-practor as a pinched nerve at L4/L5, (he also saw my left testicle in the x-ray and thought it was a tumor). Subsequently, I have been told by others that my back looked very GOOD on x-rays.
I speculate that my TMS back may have caused a "compensatory gait" change that has resulted in my hip issues, which appear as significant arthritis in x-rays and MRI's. I have a noticeable limp and am a step slow for competitive tennis purposes. My mantra is, "I've never had an injury I haven't been able to fix", so I keep playing through it. I'm off to a national tournament in Boise, Idaho. I have little hope of being competitve, but look forward to participating and a change of scenery. The worst that can happen is that I wear my hip down some more and there will be less for the surgeons to remove. I will continue approaching it from a TMS perspective, work on improving my footwork, losing some weight, until bone on bone. Although two TMS doctors have told me what I have is NOT TMS, I have played tennis with too many doctors to always believe their line calls. |
| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 04/29/2005 : 07:02:21
Interesting comment from Dr. Gwozdz' web site: "Just be careful not to try to cure yourself for too long a period of time before seeing a TMS doctor. On TMShelp.com, I have seen people with TMS get very frustrated because they tried to cure themselves by just reading a book when a little redirection from a TMS doctor would probably have made a big difference." |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 22:29:44
Sarno Soldier,
I pasted the below address for a TMS doctor in New Jersey where you said you lived in your archived posts. The link to the tarpityoga site didn't work because of the period at the end. If you drop the period it should work and give you the list of TMS doctors and therapists. I think New Jersey is not that big of a state so he shouldn't be that far away from you wherever you live. I traveled from SF to LA to see a TMS doctor and many others have traveled longer distances. I have also consulted with a TMS psycho-therapist by phone. If you really want to get well you will do whatever it takes to do so. Good luck.
NEW JERSEY
Somerset
Paul Gwozdz, MD
Board Certified in Family Practice
710 Easton Avenue, Suite 1A
Somerset, NJ 08873
www.GwozdzMD.com
(732) 545-4100
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| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 19:46:34
SarnoSoldier: When I first dealt with this, in 1991, there were no TMS doctors in my area (Boston) either. I got on a train to New York and went to see Dr. Sarno himself. I was able to combine the office visit with the first lecture and went down the next week for the second lecture and then back again for a follow up a few weeks later. That's 4 1/2 hours each way on Amtrak, with back pain, for three round trips! The point is, I agree with what Allan says, find your closest TMS doctor and do what it takes to get there. There is a good list on the Tar Pit Yoga web site, http://www.tarpityoga.com/directory.html.
Get some pharmaceutical help at least for the short term to damp down the anxiety so you can start to get out of this rut that you're in. Heck, your primary care doctor can prescribe Klonopin, Valium, or one of the other benzodiazipines to stabilize you until you can get to a TMS doctor. You may also want to get a referral to a psychatrist as it also sounds like you could be a candidate for one of the SSRI's (Prozac, Zoloft, etc.). Don't worry alone! Get help!
Fred |
| marytabby |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 18:10:11
Soldier,
I have only been at this a month. So I am very new to this, but I read all three of Sarno's books a few times, and Siegel's. I am having intermittent pain still in my buttocks and the thing everyone on this board says makes sense: if it were from a disc problem, etc it would hurt all the time. It only hurts when I run, which is the trigger activity that started all this crap in December. So I figure my mind is not ready to stop the pattern, it's going to try to keep me locked into the trigger, the running. In pain I continue on, I do my best to keep running. I am sitting now hours after the run and I feel ok. Not perfect but not horrible. I have to believe it's the brain playing games with me. Also, I recently hooked up with a therapist and I do have a low grade anxiety disorder, similar to how you describe yours, and she did not put me on Klonipin or any type of suppressive med, she put me on something that is in the SSRI family. SSRI meds balance out serotinin levels in the brain. It's a tiny dose to start but it's to get a grip on my anxiety, which is probably from all the stress and trauma I've endured with family deaths/abuse/neglect/safety issues as a kid. As others have said, get to a therapist and get a med consult soon, so you can try to get a grip on the anxiety that is running amuck. I am trying it finally after many years and if it doesn't work for me, I will still soldier on, and work the program. For now, I visit this board several times a day to get ideas and support and I read, read, read the books and try to use the ideas. Good luck and hope you feel better soon.
Mary |
| Allan |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 18:03:30
SarnoSoldier.
When are you going to get the message and take some action?
Never mind the responses along the lines of "Yes, I agree, but. . ."
MikeC has given you some excellent advice about TMS physicians. Your response was: “No TMS physicians in my area.”
So what? What law limits you to your area of the country?. Get on a plane (or a train or a bus or whatever) and go see one. What is a few hundred dollars compared to the potential relief of a lifetime of pain?
Regarding Dave's advice, you say: “I don't know any therapist that will honestly say that pain is purely emotional and not at all from an injury.”
Who does? I don’t either. The point is, go see one anyhow. The objective is to get a professional evaluation and a suggested course of action to get you out of your misery.
Dave has a history of analyzing these situations presented on the forum and cutting right to the chase with some excellent advice. In your case, it appears to me that he is right on target. Take his advice. Go back and read his two postings. You have the answer. What more do you want? Do it!
It is about time that you recognized that you have the football and that it is your call. Take some action. Make some progress. Three years is too long to stay in limbo.
Allan.
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| molomaf |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 14:00:52
Dave said
"TMS symptoms vary widely. It is not uncommon to experience completely different sensations than you ever have before. Sometimes that is a good sign because it means TMS is trying harder to keep you distracted."
This is so true! I had surgery in January on my back that was not TMS. I, of course, was convinced that it was sciatica even though I couldn't stand up. I saw Dr. Martinez and he said he thought it was Cauda Equina Syndrome which it was when verified by MRI. He told me that I would probably doubt myself in the future because of this event. For four months, the healing process was distraction enough but when I started to walk and drive again, my brain decided that I needed a better distraction. I got sensations that I had never gotten before and never noticed in Sarno's books because they didn't apply to me. I called Dr. Martinez and he said he had expected to hear from me before this!! I told him that I was 90% sure it was TMS and he heard the fear in me. He asked me some questions and told me it didn't sound like anything serious. It took me about a week to get my head around this one-shocklike sensations across the top of my buttox. It felt like I had to be on guard as if someone was going to scare me and damn if it didn't work. I was scared. I was distracted. But once I got the courage to face it head on, I got past it and it has pretty much stopped.
It takes a lot of courage to face your fear head on. If the sensations/pain stop and start, that's your proof that it is TMS. It wouldn't stop if it was real. I should know and it fooled me anyway!
Dr. Sarno says somewhere in the books that if you continue to fear the pain, it will continue. So challenge yourself. Take little steps. Do physical things to prove to yourself that nothing worse than being uncomfortable will happen.
Michele |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 13:45:18
Sarnosoldier,
Write things down, write things down - worries, childhood fears, relationships even good things about yourself. Write things down.
Really - it helps.
Scottydog |
| SarnoSoldier |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 12:11:24
Tennis Tom,
I know what you are saying, but there are NO TMS Dr.'s in my area. I don't know any therapist that will honestly say that pain is purely emotional and not at all from an injury. That is the problem. What do you do if you cannot see a TMS doctor? |
| MikeC |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 11:47:56
SarnoSoldier,
I agree with Dave. You need to see a new psychologist if this is still going on. It sounds like you are on the verge of a emotional collapse. A good psychologist will force you to take each of those issues that you mentioned and make you dig down deeper. They will also make you realize that a lot of the stresses that you are creating are of your own doing by the way you automatically perceive things. Sometimes we can do that ourselves but in the emotional state that you are in, you should seek out a professional.
For instance, I thought that I could not be a good father because I could not do things with them because of pain. His response that children only care that you are present in the household. Watching TV with them will make them happy. You don't need to do everything with them as long as you are there.
At this point, you should see that the activities that you are doing have no connection to your pain or they would happen all the time. THerefore, the pain must be psychologically driven.
Find a psychologist who will help you with your pain AND everything going on with your life. It should help you.
Good luck,
Mike C |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 11:33:43
SarnoSoldier,
Did you read my post to you? If you did I would appreciate a reply to my suggestion. |
| Dave |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 11:33:18
TMS symptoms vary widely. It is not uncommon to experience completely different sensations than you ever have before. Sometimes that is a good sign because it means TMS is trying harder to keep you distracted.
Your anxiety is a TMS equivalent. You are so full of rage, yet you have not accessed any of it. You need help. Your therapist is no good if you have been in this rut for 3 years. You must get past the anxiety and for that you might have to accept that medication is the only answer.
There is no indication in any of your posts that you have actually done the work necessary to investigate the sources of the rage. You mention in passing that your wife is pregnant. Have you tried at all to figure out the deep, hidden emotions that this stirs within you? For example, I bet you are terrified that you will be a horrible father.
Bottom line: you need help. I would seek out a psychiatrist. This is one case where I think medication is probably essential. |
| SarnoSoldier |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 11:20:11
I know I dwell on the pain because this pain is so different from my normal TMS pain. This feels like I have a nerve gone wild and it just flares up as I start to walk. It is extremely scary. I do realize that I have a lot of stresses in my life and that I am a hypochondriac. I worry so much about health and death, family and friendships. I worry about being the perfect husband and never ever want to slip up. Over the past couple of years I have watched my wife's family get divorced, both grandparents die of cancer, my best friend die of cancer in 3 days, have a sister who has major personality disorders and extreme anxiety, grad school pressures, job hatred, jealousy toward family members, want for better sex life, low self esteem, a new house, job changes, a pregnant wife (presently), and the horrible image in my mind that I cannot lift weights, be in shape, participate in contact sports, and much more. I know that I am the perfect candidate for TMS. I just hate that my pain is not the type to keep me in bed, but it is enough of a problem to always distract me. I can never explain to anyone the strange sensation that my pain involves. I wish it was as simple as sciatic pains. I am also afraid to depend on pain killers or anti-depressants. I just have this hopeless mindset that I can't break free of. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 10:40:54
SarnoSoldier,
Having reviewed your archived posts, it sounds like you are as stuck now as when you first came to this board seeking help. You are still fixated on the physical symptoms rather than the emotional aspects of TMS. Reading the books, for some, is not enough. It sounds like you fit into that catagory. All I can reccommend, at this point, is that you make the effort to see a TMS doctor and a TMS psychotherapist and follow their advice.
Good luck |
| MikeC |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 10:05:15
SarnoSoldier,
Please don't think that you are the only one who is going through this or has gone through this. I will almost guarantee that everyone on this board at one time or another doubted they had TMS or thought about their backs all day long. Back in January, my sciatica was pounding in both legs to the point that I would have crying episodes and was very depressed feeling that I would never improve. At that point, I made an appointment with a psychologist in March and cried and screamed over dealing with back issues over 20 years. I felt that the pain would never stop and I would be stuck like this forever. Three sessions later and the pain has stabilized. I'm not great but I don't scream and cry anymore. My doctor gave me a meditation tape, a list of cognitive belief errors, an exercise called triple disassociation, and a couple of books to review.
While my psychologist doesn't think pain is solely from repressed emotions, he thinks they at least contribute to them. The sad part is (and Sarno clearly states this) you never know which thought it is that is causing the problem. Usually for us chronic people, it is an accumulation of things over the years and we don't realize it. It can be something as small as a traffic jam or something huge like death and everything in between.
We are so programmed to think that everything is due to structural issues that nothing can be caused by emotional issues. A lot of the stress we inflict on ourselves and we don't realize it. One example is watching the newscast on a daily basis. There's nothing better for your emotional psyche than to listen to a 24hour news station telling us about murders, rapes, diseases, war, taxes, etc. to put us a dreadful emotional state.
As I suggested in my earlier post, find a TMS physician and work with him/her as well as follow the advice of Sarno and Siegel. I know it is hard to ignore the pain. If you need a further morale booster, go look on Amazon.com under Dr. Sarno's books. There are too many success stories out there for this to be a coincidence.
Good luck,
Mike C |
| Dave |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 09:41:13
You are still very much focused in the physical realm.
You must learn to ignore the pain. It is essential. You must accept that the symptoms have a psychological origin, and that there is nothing physically wrong with you.
You must learn to accept that those terrible spasms will never come again, because you now know the cause, and you simply will not allow it to happen. When the pain gets noticable, you will simply shift your thoughts to the psychological realm.
Treating TMS is a reconditioning process. You must recondition yourself to think psychological whenever you are aware of the pain. You must explore all the sources of rage in your life. Basically, you have to follow Dr. Sarno's treatment suggestions.
Unfortunately you haven't been able to get past step 1. The reasons for this are not clear. Your obsession with the pain is a distraction in and of itself. Perhaps the psychological issues that plague you are so severe that your mind is incapable of giving up the distraction. Or, perhaps you really don't believe in TMS, though you are paying yourself lip service by saying that you do.
Assuming you have truly "done the work" diligently and regularly, and tried your best to ignore the pain, and you still have not made significant progress after 3 years, then it is time to see a different therapist. Maybe you need to see a psychiatrist and take some anti-anxiety medication as a short-term boost so you can refocus your thoughts.
Remember, the fear of the symptoms is worse than the symptoms themselves. The fear is harder to banish than the pain. But it can be done, it just takes focus, belief, and hard work. |
| Allan |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 09:38:58
SarnoSoldier.
You are making good progress, you just don’t realize it.
“Why is my back not hurting?” The first sign that you are making progress is when the pain starts to move around. It is here one day, gone, then back again or in some other place. It’s not hurting now because when it did hurt it was TMS pain. If it were structural, it would hurt all of the time.
“No sciatica though which makes no sense at all.” This is the whole key to everything making sense. The fact that you had sciatica pain one day and not the next appears to be conclusive proof that the earlier pain was TMS pain and not from a structural condition.
“I just wish someone would tell me I will be okay and that nothing that is happening is dangerous.” You have TMS pain not structural pain. It is emotionally induced. It is not from a pinched nerve, herniated disc or spinal stenosis or anything structural. Dr. Sarno says that TMS pain, although very real, is harmless.
Can you see the proof in all of this?
By the way, I had severe sciatica pain in both legs from my hips to my ankles for months. For four years now, no pain at all. Dr. Sarno’s theory does work.
Did you read his first book, Mind Over Back Pain? The diagrams are great. I recommend it for a basic understanding of TMS pain.
By the way, MikeC gave you some good advice regarding seeing a TMS physician.
Allan.
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| SarnoSoldier |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 09:11:00
I agree with everything you say. I have been seeing a therapist, but what I notice is that all I think about is my back. On good days, I say, "Why is my back not hurting?". On bad days I say, "How long will this last and will this bring on horrible spasms" Right now I am in a bad way because I am dealing with this strange sensation that occurs when I get up from sitting and walk. Strange because two days ago I could run and now after doing nothing physical, I have severe pain when I walk. No sciatica though which makes no sense at all. I am always squirming in my chair and i am very impatient with everything. I always feel on the edge and anxious about life itself. I just wish someone could tell me I will be okay and nothing that is happening is dangerous. |
| Allan |
Posted - 04/28/2005 : 09:09:55
Sarnosoldier,
Your focus may be too much internal, that is you appear to be focusing on yourself almost exclusively. The result appears to be a lot of unnecessary complexities in your life and possibly way too much seriousness.
How do I know this may be the case? That was my problem some years ago.
Believe it or not, Ann Landers helped me. (Hello Verdammt) I never wrote to her but her consistent advice to many people was to join the compliment club. That is, pay everyone you meet during the day a sincere compliment. It must be sincere, not frivolous.
The idea is get you thinking about other people and to get the focus away from you.
Try it. It may be helpful.
Secondly. You may have memorized Sarno, but it appears that in the process you either didn’t get his message or didn't understand it, particularly on treating TMS pain. Go back to page 70 of Healing Back Pain and try to understand his suggestions for a treatment procedure. It appears that you are not following it. If you were, chances are that you would be making more progress.
Allan.
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