| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Busted |
Posted - 06/18/2013 : 21:18:52
Recently I had a bone density test, which said that I have slight osteopenia. (This was a routine test, I'm not having any pain or problems.) My doctor told me to take calcium supplements. But I'm wondering if osteopenia is just normal with age (I'm in my mid-40s) and if I can just write it off as TMS-related, and not bother with the calcium? After reading that calcium supplements can cause heart attacks I'm not really too thrilled about taking them.
Thanks for any insight!
Busted |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mala |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 20:24:40
Agree chickenbone. FRAX is much better. What is amazing is how different the scores are for whichever country you choose. I did India for ethnicity & China coz that's where I was born & have lived. Not a big difference but still some. Pretty good scores though so !'m pleased.
Mala
Mala Singh Barber. I'm on facebook. Look me up
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| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 10:35:34
I mostly agree with you, Mala.
However, Asians as a group have thinner bones, but many less fractures. I think the western system of DEXA tests only considers one factor that contributes to osteoporosis. That is why the WHO uses the FRAX. It is a much better predictor of fracture risk, which is all that really matters. The FRAX considers a DEXA score only one risk factor for osteoporosis. |
| mala |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 00:38:26
Not everything is TMS. There is a huge link between hormones & bone density in women & that's a given. Men do lose a little but not nearly as much as we do & that's because they do not go thru the same hormonal changes as we do. The risk of fractures as we grow older is real too.
We can debate the value of different supplements till the cows come home. Vitamin D, Magnesium, calcium may or may not be beneficial, depends on how your body will process them or if your body really needs them so you'll have to take a chance on those.
If you don't want to take chances & want to be strong & healthy then you do what you know is going to work rather than focus on what MIGHT & that is:
Maintain a healthy weight.
Work out with weights to increase or maintain bone density
Build muscle mass so that you are well supported & feel strong.
Eat a healthy diet. There seems to be some evidence that women in the far east suffer less form osteoporosis. There could be a number of reasons. They are not many large/ obese women here. Maybe that is diet or it could be genetics but people here eat meat sparingly, Its usually one dish amongst many others. We consume a lot less dairy. We tend to eat more rice products than wheat , we eat soya & lots & lots of green veggies. We also eat smaller meals & snack often. We have a culture of sharing dishes which means we usually order 4 dishes between 6 people. Soft drinks in moderation, we drink a lot of green tea & water. Portions are well regulated. And we eat according to seasons which means we get a lot of variety in our food.
Mala
Mala Singh Barber. I'm on facebook. Look me up
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| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 18:37:17
darko, you are right, you should look at results - what works for you. Don't let anyone ever talk you out of what is right for you.
Amen for that - I would hate to think that I believe all the crap going through my head also!! |
| Darko |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 16:09:55
Chickenbone, i actually enjoy having a conversation with someone that might be able to teach me something. The last thing i want to do is live my life believing all the crap in my head. So I appreciate your input.
I agree with pretty much everything you said anyway.....and maybe I'm completely wrong. But I look at results and if the results line up with the theory then it's worth looking at.....
D |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 22:40:12
It is not true that a more acidic diet causes more calcium to be leached from the body. Bone status is not much affected by the PH of foods we eat.
As far as I can tell, the rest of your post doesn't pertain to the subject, which is that proponents of the alkaline diet theory claim that blood PH can be controlled by diet, all evidence shows that it cannot.
I am not trying to convince you and it is fine with me if you believe what you want. I only posted this article because it explains what is the correct explanation of how the body controls blood PH. Also, others are reading these posts and I would prefer that they heard both sides of the story.
Also, I might call attention to the giant food supplement industry that funds all sorts of questionable research for the purpose of selling their products. It is possible that many people have been sickened or even killed by ingesting these products and they are not even regulated at all. It seems like every 20 years or so, we are treated to a new vitamin craze. Linus Pauling went off the rails on vitamin C in the 1960's. He thought Vitamin C would prevent or cure everything. He was giving his wife (who eventually died of a really weird cancer) megadoses for years. Most of the vitamins have had their turn. Now, Vitamin D is the latest miracle cure.
I have been taken in more than once by these medical hacks who will do or say anything to sell something. It is my opinion that the holistic medicine types and the supplement industry are in bed like never before. They prey upon hypochondriacs like most of us.
Please note that I am in favor of a healthy, well-balanced diet.
Like I said before, we can just agree to disagree. You can have the last word if you like. |
| MichaelB |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 20:45:28
Calcium is fine to take but make sure you take some magnesium with it,
otherwise you may learn what constipation feels like. Believe me on the calcium
though. You can find calcium tabs with Mags also. Right at your local
pharmacy. Enjoy. You will like it. |
| Darko |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 17:30:00
Chickenbone,
Yes the blood is maintained at a set ph, the body does it's work to maintain that. However it uses Calcium and Magnesium to do that, and if you eat a very acidic diet then more calcium is used to maintain this tight range.
The body must do this or yes, you will die, so calcium is taken from the bones. Acid and Calcium go out in your urine.......which is the number one cause of kidney stones. Kidney stone are calcium are they not?
quote:
What causes kidney stones?
The leading cause of kidney stones is a lack of water. Stones commonly have been found in those that drink less than the recommended eight to ten glasses of water a day. When there is not enough water to dilute the uric acid (component of urine), the pH level within the kidneys drops and becomes more acidic. An excessively acidic environment in the kidneys is conducive to the formation of kidney stones.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/154193.php
I'm not sure so much that it's bad science but more a bad understanding of the science.
Either way it doesn't really matter, my point is not EVERYTHING is TMS and, bone issues need to be looked at carefully and I sure as hell wouldn't believe anything the medical community say. If they knew what they were talking about the populations health wouldn't be the disaster it is currently. The ONLY thing they know how to do is to put you on medicine, and fix nothing!
Don't believe me, just open your mind to it and do some research to see if what I'm saying makes sense. I'm no expert in this area
UPDATE
Just read that link, very interesting and seems to suggest the above is all BS. Once again, it's only one person, who funded the studies and who is this guy connect to. In the end I don't believe anyone, I take a theory and apply it and see if I get results....which I have done and it's been working for me.
Just try a less animal protein, acidic diet and see what happens. It won't hurt you, and you'll feel good from lots of fruit and veg
Read this womans real life RESULTS. If she did it, then its possible
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/mary_splady.html
http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/star07_ruth-heidrich.html
Good luck.
D |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 17:13:13
There are so many claims made by so many people nowadays that it may be best just to disregard everything. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/23/2013 : 13:27:36
darko:
This explains about blood acidity/alkalinity.
In simple terns, the alkaline diet hypothesis depends on the premise that the blood PH is variable (it is not or you would die quickly). It also depends on the premise that the body, in order to balance PH, takes calcium from the bones. It does not. The blood PH is maintained in a tight range (at about 7.4) by the kidneys and the lungs. The kidneys produce bicarbonate cells for this purpose and the lungs expel carbon dioxide (a byproduct of acidity). read the article. My husband, who is a doctor, also explained this to me. What you eat has little effect on your blood PH.
It is really amazing how bad science gets believed if you advertise it enough!!
http://chriskresser.com/the-ph-myth-part-1?inf_contact_key=08def769760bb5c367fa90e227aa8b03984a17f1ed3f999c3c57b76c1cf3470f |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 22:58:54
The problem with specialized diets or eating is that most of the food we eat is adulterated, void of nutrients, and chock full of pesticides and poison.
The conventional wisdom was that red meat caused heart problems and all sorts of other maladies, and while it probably does contribute to sickness now, due to the factory production of beef (and chicken and fish), grass finished beef, eaten by people as little as forty years ago, was and is as natural as our Paleo ancestors.
I always wonder about the convention wisdom too, when the pundits say that people died so much earlier than they do today. Yes, it is true, but was it due to diet or to accident and disease?
It is anecdotal evidence and conclusion, but the generation that was born from the 1880's to early 1900's, ate whatever they wanted, usually close to the source of growth or slaughter, and lived a long time. I also see birth and death dates of people from centuries ago, and they seem to have just a long a life span or longer than folks today. With Independence Day coming, I give you John Adams, aged 90, and Thomas Jefferson, aged 83, both of whom died exactly 50 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 04, 1826, Jefferson before Adams by hours.
One can argue diets until the corn and antibotic stuffed cows come home, but I think it is really a question of what is in the food -- or worse, what is the food? Or... is it food?
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| Darko |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 20:47:21
By the way, how did you guys find out you had the issue? What symptoms were there?
Fractures?
D |
| icelikeaninja |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 20:26:54
Have you guys ever heard of the PH Miracle Diet. The guy is a little extreme and he lists cases upon cases in his book like Sarno. I really don't know the validity to these claims but I now Anthony Robbins now follows him.
I did the diet a few years back when the doctors said my pains were from my stomach and not my ribs. |
| mala |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 20:05:39
You need to deal with both osteoporosis & Osteopenia sensibly.
I have osteopenia & my gynecologist was worried. I did a blood test & found I was D deficient. She told me to sit in the sun more. When I told her that I spend a lot of time sitting by the pool ( I am lucky I can because of my skin type) she said that there were other women in HK who told her the same thing who were also deficient. Maybe its to do with the pollution levels & all that haze floating in from China that blocks the sunlight from being effective. So she has put me on D3 supplements.
Rather than take too many supplements try to eat more stuff that has calcium. Here in the far east people don't drink that much milk but we eat a lot of sesame based foods, spinach , kale beans etc. The body can process the calcium in food better than it can in huge doses of calcium tablets.
There is also a urine test which shows how much calcium is excreted by the body & if it is too much then there is something wrong with your diet. My doc told me to keep eating what I was eating as I have no problem. My diet is straightforward. Lots of veg, some red or wild rice & protein like chicken, pork & fish. And a bit of fruit.
Rather than focus on so many things that MAY work, why not focus on what we know DOES work. A bit of sunshine, D3 supplements & bone bearing exercises. Walking & swimming do not meet the requirements, you have to do some weights or weight bearing exercises.
Mala
Mala Singh Barber. I'm on facebook. Look me up
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| Darko |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 20:00:51
quote:
It is just that some of these diets don't work well for some people
This is very true, and usually the result of things like Vitamin B12, so you are correct there. Having said that it's possible to live this way and the results seem to indicate it's a better option....but again one needs to research it.....
D |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 19:55:05
Sorry, Darko, I didn't mean to come across that way. It is just that some of these diets don't work well for some people. That is all I was saying. Let's just agree to disagree.
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| Darko |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 19:05:39
Sorry you took it the wrong way.....I don't really want to debate it either. My post must have come across the wrong way. I am sorry about that.
I have looked at this heaps and thought that if you had evidence to suggest that what I was saying was wrong then I would love to see some links.
Anyway no dramas
D
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| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 18:49:27
Look Darko, I stated in my post that these are my personal opinions. So please back off.
If you are interested in debating this issue, please go to the Inspire Osteoporosis site where you can debate it to your heart's content. You will find a lot of people there who agree with you. I will not waste my time. I do not wish to debate this issue here.
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| Darko |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 18:34:08
" Osteoporosis is extremely common among young and middle-aged woman vegans "
Care to provide some evidence to this claim?
Of course your condition will get worse when you are a vegetarian! You're still taking in excess amount of animal protein, and dairy is the worse culprit. Most Vegos think they need to smash eggs and bucket loads of cheese to stay alive.
"I do not agree that a vegan diet is best for thin bones"
I don't think it's a matter of opinion.......its a matter of fact. Unless you can provide some facts to counter what I originally said then I'm afraid this is nothing more than your opinion.....which I think is incorrect.....then again one can find facts to prove anything these days 
The science backs up what I am saying......prove me wrong and I'm happy to change my thinking
I'm not saying a vegan diet is the only way to go......but do the research and it seems pretty obvious to me.
Just to clarify.....it relates more to being acidic than being vegan. So a vegan eater that eats an acidic diet is also going to have issues.....that's what I know so far anyway. Forget the vegan thing and just focus on a less acidic diet.....surely that's good right?
D |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 06/19/2013 : 18:18:54
I have osteoporosis and probably began losing bone in my mid 40's. I do not believe this is related to TMS.
In my opinion, the first thing you should do is look for a site called "The Better Bones Blog" and look here for a list of medical conditions for which osteoporosis is a symptom. 2 of the main medical conditions to check for are hyperthyroidism and hyperparathyroidism. I had hyperparathyroidism that gave me osteoporosis. It was not caught for almost 10 years because most doctors, even Endocrinologists, do not know how to diagnose it. The main feature is serum calcium over 10, no matter what the upper limit for the test says.
I do not agree that a vegan diet is best for thin bones. Osteoporosis is extremely common among young and middle-aged woman vegans. This is probably because the minerals used by the body to build bone are stored in body fat. I was on a vegetarian diet for several years when my osteoporosis got the worst. I could never keep my body weight while on this diet. These diets are extremely low in essential proteins and fats. They are also usually deficient in Vitamin B-12. I believe that a balanced diet is best. If you do decide to do the vegan diet, make sure it is a well-planned diet and you have accounted for all the vitamins and minerals you need.
Also, I would use the FRAX tool to gauge your risk for osteoporosis because
the measurement of calcium bone density has proven to be a very unreliable indicator of fracture risk and fracture risk is all that matters. The DEXA test is only one risk factor for osteoporosis.
If I had it to do over, I would never have taken any of the bone drugs on the market no matter what my doctor said.
I have done a lot of research on supplements. I take a multi-vitamin, a mineral supplement, some supplemental calcium and lots of magnesium. , a good vitamin C supplement (perhaps buffered to protect your stomach)I live in a very sunny climate, so don't need much extra Vitamin D.
If you are interested, Inspire hosts a online forum for osteoporosis sponsored by the National Osteoporosis Foundation.
Believe me, if I had it to do over, I would NEVER listen to doctors when it comes to osteoporosis. My husband is a doctor and agrees with me on this.
These are only my personal opinions. |
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