| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 20:40:18
I received a PM on this so I will post it for anyone interested.
Alcohol binds to the GABA neurotransmitter receptor in the brain – 12 to 96 hours after drinking GABA receptors rebound. Think of the rebound as really pissed off neurons.
GABA is the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the nervous system – it is the major controller of pain, tension and anxiety. At first alcohol can lessen pain then the receptor potentiation will make it worse.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578966
The rebound causes GABA to lessen the pain control gates and you get more pain. This can be dramatic or subtle depending on your genetics.
Steroids and barbiturates have the same GABA effect.
If you have pain and you drink alcohol you are altering the GABA receptors which can take from a few weeks to over a year to normalize (again genetics) and will potentiate more pain, tension and anxiety.
If you want to know how a neuron feels about alcohol pour it on an open cut. The brain does not have pain receptors so it has to “speak” through the body
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/10/2013 : 05:29:13
quote:
Originally posted by GTfan
I actually live in Lexington, KY now with my new job. I haven't been able to find any TMS physicians here in Kentucky yet.
There aren't any listed, maybe you won't need one if you're getting it on your own. Keep reading your Sarno. |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 21:28:03
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
GT, have you looked into seeing a TMS savvy physician, here's a couple listed in the TMS Wiki in Geogia:
Georgia
David-Lipsig, MD (Physician)
Twelve Piedmont Center, Suite 410
3495 Piedmont Road
Atlanta, GA 30305
(404) 495-5900
(404) 495-5901 fax
lipsig@atlantapsychiatry.com
Website
Leonard J. Weiss, MD (Physician)
Board Certified in Psychiatry, Addiction Psychiatry, Forensic Psychiatry, Internal Medicine and Nutrition
3188 Atlanta Road
Smyrna, GA 30080
(770) 319-6000
Insurance Accepted: US Healthcare, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Humana HMO, Humana PPO, Blue Choice Senior, Cigna HMO, Cigna PPO, One Health Plan of Georgia, Inc HMO / POS / Choice/ PPO
==================================================
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
I actually live in Lexington, KY now with my new job. I haven't been able to find any TMS physicians here in Kentucky yet.
"No matter how far life pushes you down, no matter how much you hurt, you can always bounce back." - Sheryl Swoopes |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 09:33:27
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
GT, that's great that you're parents are with you, they're the important ones. Nothing wrong with taking anti-depressants if they're needed, the right one for you, and prescribed by a competent physician for the short term to get you through a rough patch. But, are you depressed? Why does your dad feel they would be helpful. You don't sound depressed, just like a "normal" college kid trying new stuff with a lot of peer and stress creating normal life pressures. I can't quote you chapter and verse but I believe Dr. Sarno mentions anti-depressants, read the books and do a search here using the "SEARCH" tab above right. Don't be mixing the drugs with a the booze though. I've seen some reports in TMS complementary back books using small doses of anti-depressants, Celexa, I think. They do make you kinda' "separated" from the now. If your "now" is a highly anxious worried state, then it might be beneficial for a short stint. But, you sound like you're looking to party so that doesn't sound so depressed--this is all speculation since I don't know you. Why does your dad think you could use them?
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
I don't know, maybe he just doesn't know that much about the matter and is trying to help.
And just so you can know me better, I am a post-college student. I graduated in December and got a job right out of college, so I guess I'm in the transitional stage between college and "the real world".
As far as being depressed, I wouldn't say that my life is "depressing". But I do worry a lot about things. I give myself irrational thoughts that people don't like me, and I'm a people-pleaser by the book. It bothers me when other people don't seem to be happy, and I sacrifice my own happiness for others regularly. I used to see this as one of my strengths, but apparently it has been causing me harm.
"No matter how far life pushes you down, no matter how much you hurt, you can always bounce back." - Sheryl Swoopes |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 09:30:35
GT, have you looked into seeing a TMS savvy physician, here's a couple listed in the TMS Wiki in Geogia:
Georgia
David-Lipsig, MD (Physician)
Twelve Piedmont Center, Suite 410
3495 Piedmont Road
Atlanta, GA 30305
(404) 495-5900
(404) 495-5901 fax
lipsig@atlantapsychiatry.com
Website
Leonard J. Weiss, MD (Physician)
Board Certified in Psychiatry, Addiction Psychiatry, Forensic Psychiatry, Internal Medicine and Nutrition
3188 Atlanta Road
Smyrna, GA 30080
(770) 319-6000
Insurance Accepted: US Healthcare, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Humana HMO, Humana PPO, Blue Choice Senior, Cigna HMO, Cigna PPO, One Health Plan of Georgia, Inc HMO / POS / Choice/ PPO
==================================================
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 09:23:39
GT, that's great that you're parents are with you, they're the important ones. Nothing wrong with taking anti-depressants if they're needed, the right one for you, and prescribed by a competent physician for the short term to get you through a rough patch. But, are you depressed? Why does your dad feel they would be helpful. You don't sound depressed, just like a "normal" college kid trying new stuff with a lot of peer and stress creating normal life pressures. I can't quote you chapter and verse but I believe Dr. Sarno mentions anti-depressants, read the books and do a search here using the "SEARCH" tab above right. Don't be mixing the drugs with a the booze though. I've seen some reports in TMS complementary back books using small doses of anti-depressants, Celexa, I think. They do make you kinda' "separated" from the now. If your "now" is a highly anxious worried state, then it might be beneficial for a short stint. But, you sound like you're looking to party so that doesn't sound so depressed--this is all speculation since I don't know you. Why does your dad think you could use them?
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
|
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 08:36:19
Tom, right now the only people in my life that I feel comfortable discussing TMS with is my parents. My parents are behind me mainly because they know about my history with anxiety attacks and being so easily stressed out. My dad has suggested that I go on an antidepressent, but I know this is against the Sarno way and will cause me more pain in the end. I'm havin trouble getting this through to him, but Sarno's concepts are so "out-there" when compared to Western medicine, this is understandable.
As far as my friends are concerned, they aren't the reason I don't openly discuss my condition. I am embarassed (mainly due to the fact that this is groin pain) and feel like I will be seen as crazy and ostrisized (sp?). But in reality, if I sat down with a Sarno book and explained to my friends what was going on, I imagine some of them would actually listen.
"No matter how far life pushes you down, no matter how much you hurt, you can always bounce back." - Sheryl Swoopes |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:56:42
GT, you are in a bad environment and need to make new friends who are intelligent and sensitive enough for you to openly discuss your TMS issues with. The crowd you're hanging with will likely make your life worse. You're better off staying at home and reading TMS books or go to places where you are more likely to encounter good people such as religious or spiritual groups or clubs you have an interest in such as math, sports, Mensa or book clubs.
G'luck,
tt |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:07:32
I agree, binge drinking is a big problem with young people in our society. And I have been right in the middle of it for 5+ years.
I definitely see "going out and drinking with the buds" as a good time, and I have had some of the best and most bonding times with my friends through alcohol. Maybe that's bad, I'm not really sure.
But looking at why I drink, that's not the only reason. If I am in a social environment where most people are drinking, I feel out of place and pressured to drink. I feel like I have to drink to feel like I can relate to people around me, and I have no courage or social skills to talk to or approach other people that I don't know. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 06:39:50
GT,
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a couple of drinks or sharing a bottle of wine over dinner. I do think there's too much out of control binge drinking by young people today especially at colleges that IS bad. Dr. Sarno even recommends in one of his books to curl up with some wine when the pain gets to be too much. SteveO, who wrote a very comprehensive TMS book called the "GREAT PAIN DECEPTION", was turned on to Dr. Sarno's books when buying a bottle of wine from his friend, a wine merchant. I would think about finding friends who you felt free to discuss your TMS with rather then drinking to forget or escape them.
G'luck!
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| balto |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 21:23:54
quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Eric
I don’t speak from others experiences I speak from 9 years of education on the human body and medicine as over 35 years of clinical experience. I also worked for 6 years in drug rehab
My surgeon has more than 50 years of experience and education and is a highly respected member of hie field. He keep telling me my back pain is from my "slipped disc".
My friend is a med school professor in SC and he has IBS and chronic knee pain.
When it come mindbody related issues, education and conventional clinical experience usually mean nothing. Your education is valuable but so is real life experience.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| balto |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 21:16:33
quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Balto
The reason you could tolerate caffeine has noting to do with with your thoughts or TMS directly. TMS is a stress response and when we are under stress the blood brain barrier becomes more permeable and the liver detox system slows down so caffeine or any chemical, drug or substance can have more effects.
Alcohol tends to up regulate the receptors in a chronic fashion. You many not notice (or you might – again genetics)any significant after effects...but they are there impeding recovery.
TMS comes from brain dysregulation and alcohol is neurotoxic further dysregualting the brain
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..."
Rik, I'm a school drop out, I have trouble understand these medical term you're using up there.
all I'm saying is I believe your belief and expectation is very powerful. Try to use it to your benefit. When belief and expectation is strong it can many times revert the effect of many drugs and other substances. The mind don't give a sh.. about our "receptors" or "BBB". I've seen so many people successfully quit alcohol and many other drugs cold turkey without any problems, just using mindbody technique.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| gigalos |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 18:38:31
Eric is still right though, it is still from others experiences with drugs ;) no hard feelings meant
Just to add my thoughts, as a (former) addict of other substances, only nicotine and caffeine nowadays. As I am pretty tired right now, I am not sure if all of it makes sense. I analyze it again tomorrow :)
I have never been an alcohol addict, but was a cannabis addict... I am having similar discussions on another forum about its role in physical symptoms... I see strong relations with TMS, as it can severely stress the mind while using it and/or when withdrawing from it. I don't care if it has to do with GABA, Anandamide deregulation, half-life of substances or whatever. Because it just doesn't matter in the end for getting as little as possible physical discomfort during recovery by pure mind work. Ignore any symptoms, don't be scared by it because if you do it will only set fire to those symptoms and drains energy that you need for 'repairing any physical damage'. Yes, you can really get lowered motility of your intestines from THC, even lab rats show it, but if you worry about the symptoms it gives, they will only intensify.
I couldn't tolerate alcohol very well last year, only the last month I found I could tolerate a glass of wine again. I feel that because I was already stressed, the effect was much stronger somehow. After just a few sips I would feel kind of drunk. This only gave me more stress.
The same thing applied to coffee, I had to cut down to two or three small cups a day because it made me feel tensed and uneasy. Now I can drink four or five without getting tensed.
In the end I could not tolerate even a small amount of cannabis either, as I only felt stressed from it instead of easy. The increased perception and fear from cannabis, combined with mindbody symptoms already there, was a recipe for more pain I feel I can now conclude.
When I was depressed years ago (from stress ofcourse) I could almost faint from one cigarette. My body was stressed and couldn't cope with the decreased oxygen effect that it can cope with when I am not depressed. It is as if the body just didn't have the energy while being in a cycle of anxiety and worry.
The difference nowadays is that I am much less stressed than before (and have less MB symptoms too) from following Ace's keys. I can tolerate substances again that I couldn't before.
All and all every substance has its effects from interaction with the nervous system. Can't deny that. But I really feel stress plays a major part in the amount of discomfort one can have from using or withdrawing from any drug.
I you feel any discomfort, just take the best placebo there is, a glass of water... (when it comes to alcohol, it even re-hydrates you which can only be a good thing. Potheads say this too about cannabis, although it was never proven that it dehydrates and therefore I think it really is a placebo then) |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 16:44:48
Eric
I don’t speak from others experiences I speak from 9 years of education on the human body and medicine as over 35 years of clinical experience. I also worked for 6 years in drug rehab
With alcohol how you feel the next day has no bearing on the chronicity of receptor alteration caused by alcohol
Alcohol use changes the long term ability of the body to control pain...simple as that
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| eric watson |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 15:14:58
gt fan as we know drinking isn't good
all1spirit tells from others experiences
he shouldn't do that- if u aint been their don't say
from 15 to about 27 I drank hard- major depression - and when it was time to stop
in two weeks I was fine - no issues - no gamma rays
no problems
its easy to know the damage of alcohol
just think how you feel the next day
everything in moderation and if you cant moderate
life is beautiful without all that alcohol to mask your courage
we have built in courage right |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:57:28
So is the alcohol directly, physically causing pain? Or are you saying that alcohol alters brain chemistry to increase anxiety and causes us to be quick to anger? |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:45:00
Depends on how much pain you are in and how much you wish to get well. When I worked in a hospital we had people in for lung cancer surgery that still went out for a smoke. Human beings are hard wired for an “I can get away with it” attitude....”does not apply to me”
The problem is not the time it takes the liver to process out the alcohol. Alcohol, benzos, steroids and barbiturates all bind to GABA receptors and then alter their function...long after it is out of the system.
We were taught that a regular drinker will take 6 to 18 months for the receptors to go back to normal depending on your genetics. While the receptors are “raw” people tend to have more anxiety, pain and lowered stress tolerance.
In my first years of college I used to drink a fair amount. Once I had a through education on brain chemistry and how fragile it is I will never, never drink again.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:35:13
So what is the consensus on alcohol for TMS suffers? Stay away from it completely? Limit cosumption?
Also, if I see a jump in pain a day after drinking can I solely attribute that to the alcohol in my system? Am I hopeless at this point until alcohol has exited my system? |
| alix |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 12:35:27
GTfan, you can start meditation/relaxation/mindfulness to control your fears. There are many posts on that subject. |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 12:33:54
Balto
The reason you could tolerate caffeine has noting to do with with your thoughts or TMS directly. TMS is a stress response and when we are under stress the blood brain barrier becomes more permeable and the liver detox system slows down so caffeine or any chemical, drug or substance can have more effects.
Alcohol tends to up regulate the receptors in a chronic fashion. You many not notice (or you might – again genetics)any significant after effects...but they are there impeding recovery.
TMS comes from brain dysregulation and alcohol is neurotoxic further dysregualting the brain
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| GTfan |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 11:27:33
Wow, unbelievable. I was in terrible pain this morning, and assumed that it was nerve pain from excessive alcohol use. I decided to continue reading my Sarno book during my lunch break, and now I have very little pain. Pain is still there, but in a much less degree and I'm not worried about it as much.
I feel like one of the biggest hurdles for me to clear is going to be fear. I'm terrified that the pain will never go away. I'm terrified that physical activity will never happen again. I'm terrified that I won't be able to enjoy drinks with friends again. |
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