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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2013 : 20:40:18
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I received a PM on this so I will post it for anyone interested.
Alcohol binds to the GABA neurotransmitter receptor in the brain – 12 to 96 hours after drinking GABA receptors rebound. Think of the rebound as really pissed off neurons.
GABA is the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the nervous system – it is the major controller of pain, tension and anxiety. At first alcohol can lessen pain then the receptor potentiation will make it worse.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578966
The rebound causes GABA to lessen the pain control gates and you get more pain. This can be dramatic or subtle depending on your genetics.
Steroids and barbiturates have the same GABA effect.
If you have pain and you drink alcohol you are altering the GABA receptors which can take from a few weeks to over a year to normalize (again genetics) and will potentiate more pain, tension and anxiety.
If you want to know how a neuron feels about alcohol pour it on an open cut. The brain does not have pain receptors so it has to “speak” through the body
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 20:45:00
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| Sort of like benzo withdrawal? |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 22:08:09
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Exactly - benzos do the same as alcohol
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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Aussie
Australia
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 03:16:16
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Whenever I have a few drinks my pain generally decreases dramatically. This can happen from only consuming a few beers. The pain returns the next day but generally no worse than before drinking. Alcohol seems to be the only thing that reduces my pain so dramatically.
Can you comment on why this is please All1spirit? Thanks |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 05:21:43
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| I think he is talking about the sensitization of your nerves after the alcohol wears off. |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 09:16:22
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I guess this explains why I'm in pain right now. I did some heavy drinking this weekend with friends, and now I have sharp pain.
Maybe a good idea to cut back on the booze until I'm in less pain? This is kind of a hard thing for me, because I'm 23 years old and love partying and drinking with my friends on the weekends. As sad as this sounds, giving up drinking would be depressing for me because I have so many fun memories partying with my friends.
Also, its difficult to explain to my friends why I'm staying in for the night. Its easier to say that I'm dealing with an infection then to say I'm dealing with groin pain that is caused by my repressing feelings. But I guess thats why our brain creates these physical pains in the first place. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 09:21:48
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I do think our expectation have a major effect too. If we expect alcohol to help us relax, it will. If you expected coffee to help you be alert or to trigger a panic attack, it will. Withdrawal symptoms will intensified and prolong if we expect it (or fear it).
Before tms/anxiety, for years I always relax with my dark coffer on my porch reading my morning newspaper. Then when having tms/anxiety, just one sip of coffee would be enough to trigger a major panic attack (because I've read somewhere that coffer will does that), then when I'm cured from tms/anxiety I again enjoy my morning coffee with no problem at all.
I tried to quit smoking for thousand of times, each time I failed because I can't endure those nasty "withdrawal" symptoms. But then learning about mindbody helped me quit successfully. I just stop "expecting" those withdrawal symptoms and I was able to convince myself to believe that those withdrawal symptoms exist due to my expectation. I quitted and it was very painfree things to do.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 11:27:33
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Wow, unbelievable. I was in terrible pain this morning, and assumed that it was nerve pain from excessive alcohol use. I decided to continue reading my Sarno book during my lunch break, and now I have very little pain. Pain is still there, but in a much less degree and I'm not worried about it as much.
I feel like one of the biggest hurdles for me to clear is going to be fear. I'm terrified that the pain will never go away. I'm terrified that physical activity will never happen again. I'm terrified that I won't be able to enjoy drinks with friends again. |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 12:33:54
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Balto
The reason you could tolerate caffeine has noting to do with with your thoughts or TMS directly. TMS is a stress response and when we are under stress the blood brain barrier becomes more permeable and the liver detox system slows down so caffeine or any chemical, drug or substance can have more effects.
Alcohol tends to up regulate the receptors in a chronic fashion. You many not notice (or you might – again genetics)any significant after effects...but they are there impeding recovery.
TMS comes from brain dysregulation and alcohol is neurotoxic further dysregualting the brain
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 12:35:27
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| GTfan, you can start meditation/relaxation/mindfulness to control your fears. There are many posts on that subject. |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:35:13
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So what is the consensus on alcohol for TMS suffers? Stay away from it completely? Limit cosumption?
Also, if I see a jump in pain a day after drinking can I solely attribute that to the alcohol in my system? Am I hopeless at this point until alcohol has exited my system? |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:45:00
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Depends on how much pain you are in and how much you wish to get well. When I worked in a hospital we had people in for lung cancer surgery that still went out for a smoke. Human beings are hard wired for an “I can get away with it” attitude....”does not apply to me”
The problem is not the time it takes the liver to process out the alcohol. Alcohol, benzos, steroids and barbiturates all bind to GABA receptors and then alter their function...long after it is out of the system.
We were taught that a regular drinker will take 6 to 18 months for the receptors to go back to normal depending on your genetics. While the receptors are “raw” people tend to have more anxiety, pain and lowered stress tolerance.
In my first years of college I used to drink a fair amount. Once I had a through education on brain chemistry and how fragile it is I will never, never drink again.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 14:57:28
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| So is the alcohol directly, physically causing pain? Or are you saying that alcohol alters brain chemistry to increase anxiety and causes us to be quick to anger? |
Edited by - GTfan on 04/08/2013 14:58:12 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 15:14:58
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gt fan as we know drinking isn't good
all1spirit tells from others experiences
he shouldn't do that- if u aint been their don't say
from 15 to about 27 I drank hard- major depression - and when it was time to stop
in two weeks I was fine - no issues - no gamma rays
no problems
its easy to know the damage of alcohol
just think how you feel the next day
everything in moderation and if you cant moderate
life is beautiful without all that alcohol to mask your courage
we have built in courage right |
Edited by - eric watson on 04/08/2013 15:19:32 |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 16:44:48
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Eric
I don’t speak from others experiences I speak from 9 years of education on the human body and medicine as over 35 years of clinical experience. I also worked for 6 years in drug rehab
With alcohol how you feel the next day has no bearing on the chronicity of receptor alteration caused by alcohol
Alcohol use changes the long term ability of the body to control pain...simple as that
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 18:38:31
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Eric is still right though, it is still from others experiences with drugs ;) no hard feelings meant
Just to add my thoughts, as a (former) addict of other substances, only nicotine and caffeine nowadays. As I am pretty tired right now, I am not sure if all of it makes sense. I analyze it again tomorrow :)
I have never been an alcohol addict, but was a cannabis addict... I am having similar discussions on another forum about its role in physical symptoms... I see strong relations with TMS, as it can severely stress the mind while using it and/or when withdrawing from it. I don't care if it has to do with GABA, Anandamide deregulation, half-life of substances or whatever. Because it just doesn't matter in the end for getting as little as possible physical discomfort during recovery by pure mind work. Ignore any symptoms, don't be scared by it because if you do it will only set fire to those symptoms and drains energy that you need for 'repairing any physical damage'. Yes, you can really get lowered motility of your intestines from THC, even lab rats show it, but if you worry about the symptoms it gives, they will only intensify.
I couldn't tolerate alcohol very well last year, only the last month I found I could tolerate a glass of wine again. I feel that because I was already stressed, the effect was much stronger somehow. After just a few sips I would feel kind of drunk. This only gave me more stress.
The same thing applied to coffee, I had to cut down to two or three small cups a day because it made me feel tensed and uneasy. Now I can drink four or five without getting tensed.
In the end I could not tolerate even a small amount of cannabis either, as I only felt stressed from it instead of easy. The increased perception and fear from cannabis, combined with mindbody symptoms already there, was a recipe for more pain I feel I can now conclude.
When I was depressed years ago (from stress ofcourse) I could almost faint from one cigarette. My body was stressed and couldn't cope with the decreased oxygen effect that it can cope with when I am not depressed. It is as if the body just didn't have the energy while being in a cycle of anxiety and worry.
The difference nowadays is that I am much less stressed than before (and have less MB symptoms too) from following Ace's keys. I can tolerate substances again that I couldn't before.
All and all every substance has its effects from interaction with the nervous system. Can't deny that. But I really feel stress plays a major part in the amount of discomfort one can have from using or withdrawing from any drug.
I you feel any discomfort, just take the best placebo there is, a glass of water... (when it comes to alcohol, it even re-hydrates you which can only be a good thing. Potheads say this too about cannabis, although it was never proven that it dehydrates and therefore I think it really is a placebo then) |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 21:16:33
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quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Balto
The reason you could tolerate caffeine has noting to do with with your thoughts or TMS directly. TMS is a stress response and when we are under stress the blood brain barrier becomes more permeable and the liver detox system slows down so caffeine or any chemical, drug or substance can have more effects.
Alcohol tends to up regulate the receptors in a chronic fashion. You many not notice (or you might – again genetics)any significant after effects...but they are there impeding recovery.
TMS comes from brain dysregulation and alcohol is neurotoxic further dysregualting the brain
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..."
Rik, I'm a school drop out, I have trouble understand these medical term you're using up there.
all I'm saying is I believe your belief and expectation is very powerful. Try to use it to your benefit. When belief and expectation is strong it can many times revert the effect of many drugs and other substances. The mind don't give a sh.. about our "receptors" or "BBB". I've seen so many people successfully quit alcohol and many other drugs cold turkey without any problems, just using mindbody technique.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2013 : 21:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Eric
I don’t speak from others experiences I speak from 9 years of education on the human body and medicine as over 35 years of clinical experience. I also worked for 6 years in drug rehab
My surgeon has more than 50 years of experience and education and is a highly respected member of hie field. He keep telling me my back pain is from my "slipped disc".
My friend is a med school professor in SC and he has IBS and chronic knee pain.
When it come mindbody related issues, education and conventional clinical experience usually mean nothing. Your education is valuable but so is real life experience.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 06:39:50
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GT,
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a couple of drinks or sharing a bottle of wine over dinner. I do think there's too much out of control binge drinking by young people today especially at colleges that IS bad. Dr. Sarno even recommends in one of his books to curl up with some wine when the pain gets to be too much. SteveO, who wrote a very comprehensive TMS book called the "GREAT PAIN DECEPTION", was turned on to Dr. Sarno's books when buying a bottle of wine from his friend, a wine merchant. I would think about finding friends who you felt free to discuss your TMS with rather then drinking to forget or escape them.
G'luck!
tt
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:07:32
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I agree, binge drinking is a big problem with young people in our society. And I have been right in the middle of it for 5+ years.
I definitely see "going out and drinking with the buds" as a good time, and I have had some of the best and most bonding times with my friends through alcohol. Maybe that's bad, I'm not really sure.
But looking at why I drink, that's not the only reason. If I am in a social environment where most people are drinking, I feel out of place and pressured to drink. I feel like I have to drink to feel like I can relate to people around me, and I have no courage or social skills to talk to or approach other people that I don't know. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:56:42
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GT, you are in a bad environment and need to make new friends who are intelligent and sensitive enough for you to openly discuss your TMS issues with. The crowd you're hanging with will likely make your life worse. You're better off staying at home and reading TMS books or go to places where you are more likely to encounter good people such as religious or spiritual groups or clubs you have an interest in such as math, sports, Mensa or book clubs.
G'luck,
tt |
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Alcohol & Pain
