| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 15:18:46
IF it is Utta Utta Acceptance
IF it is reduction of strain and tension
IF the desire is to ultimately be happy and teeumass keeps you from that
Then this nearly 4 hour video is what you want.
Who is he? A Psychotherapist. An Indian. A Jesuit Priest. A man who Bishop Ratzinger just about damned (before he was Pope). The position being that Catholics should not read his books. So if you are Atheist he is your man, Agnostics, you too, whatever you are, even Catholic, he is your treasure.
And if you delight in a clear great teacher such as Joseph Campbell then Anthony De Mello will be your delight. And maybe your undoing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncGoMFnOGHY
|
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/13/2013 : 01:02:23
Well, the good news is that I know it's doable (in extreme circumstances) and the bad news is that it leaves me with a longing for a different type of reality that part of me would much prefer to live in but another part resists with all its strength.
Are you saying that what we think of as our "self" is the identity Tolle refers to? We created it out of our pain. Makes sense to me. |
| alix |
Posted - 03/13/2013 : 00:36:05
njoy, you truly experienced a shift from thinking to awareness, a dissolution of the ego. This is a perfect illustration of Tolle's famous quote: "As long as you make an identity for yourself out of pain, you cannot be free of it" |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 17:07:16
Thank you, Alix, that's very encouraging. Yes, I read the Power of Now a few years ago. I didn't relate my experience to it, though. Will have to take another look.
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 04:12:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
I just sat with a friend's corpse for 3 days (really! d-d-d-don't ask!) and in the plane on the way back from Texas I read an Anthony de Mello book I had bought at San Francisco airport, which has a great bookstore. It was called Meditations on Love, and I read it cover to cover and felt incredibly free afterwards. Highly recommended.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
http://calltolovemeditations.blogspot.com/
ps, also look to the right side of the page and you will have even more content. A real treasure, free for the taking. |
| alix |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 23:37:49
Beautiful post njoy. Such a powerful experience. I really enjoyed reading it. Have you read the power of now? Your experience is close to what Tolle describes in that book. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 23:22:18
I just sat with a friend's corpse for 3 days (really! d-d-d-don't ask!) and in the plane on the way back from Texas I read an Anthony de Mello book I had bought at San Francisco airport, which has a great bookstore. It was called Meditations on Love, and I read it cover to cover and felt incredibly free afterwards. Highly recommended.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 03:29:46
I've had two experiences with extreme pain that I'm rather reluctant to talk about it because many people will undoubtedly think I'm just making it up for some reason. But what the heck, here goes ...
Years ago, I had some serious problems with my teeth and no money to deal with them. On two occasions I developed really bad infections (abscesses) and the pain got worse and worse (over a few days) until it eventually became excruciating. I believe in God so of course I was begging Him for help and getting no where. Eventually I got very upset and angry and thought "God is a jerk and I should just give up on getting any help from Him". But I found I didn't want to give up so I'd try again and again it wouldn't help the pain. I think this is pretty typical of certain kinds of experience with prayer and one result is a lot of really grumpy atheists.
Anyway, the point came where the pain was just too much and I felt I had a choice: either turn my back on God forever (not sure why that seemed like a good idea but it did) or just give up and give in. If this is what He wanted me to suffer then, okay, I'd suffer it. Well, both times I chose the latter course and -- here's the hard to believe part -- both times the pain vanished (instantly) and never returned. Both times.
I can hardly believe it happened myself and I know I'm not making it up! Obviously I have no such expectations of the rest of you.
Since then I've had other pain and once or twice it's been severe but I managed to get to a dentist or whatever and never came to that point of desperation. Still, I now feel I know for sure that pain is an ego thing, an attachment to having things your own way and not accepting what IS.
I am not exactly looking forward to testing this theory again but it is kind of encouraging to realize that "suffering is optional". The hard part is letting go of ego control and most of us (including me, to this day) refuse to do this easily. I'd say that almost everybody is willing to suffer a great deal of pain rather than give up what we think of as control. Of course, it can't possibly BE control and we are just fooling ourselves but we are willing to endure a lot rather than challenge the illusion.
This all happened before I came across Sarno and probably explains why I have had really spectacular success with several problems: back pain, fibromyalgia and more. I can usually just say to it (the pain), "Get lost, I know what you are. You're a big, fat head trip" and it's gone. For a long time, usually months, and if/when it returns it is fairly easy to shoo away again. Not always, but usually.
My big problem these days is rarely pain, but I still have trouble sleeping -- bad nightmares whenever I am stressed out and nasty repetitive dreams almost every night. So, far I don't know how to get rid of these. The idea that tms is caused by living in the future has promise, for sure. I have, all my life, tried to constantly change for the better. I can keep my brain busy "improving" and "being useful" and "helping" during the day but at night I'm just never good enough. No stinking wonder I have bad dreams.
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
| alix |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 13:31:42
Interesting njoy. Do you think the pain relief can last?
When I was doing meditation, I could truly become pain free and the effect would continue for about 30 minutes afterward but then the pain would come back no matter what. There was nothing I could do that would extend the benefit of meditation. |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 14:56:21
Alix, I've probably mentioned this somewhere but will expand ... I first encountered a Meares book in 1969 when I was pregnant with my daughter. My son (born 14 months previously -- silly me) was transverse which was disastrous. So I was scared to death. Also, I was giving birth in a French hospital, basically no English spoken, and my French is not fluent.
So, I read the book (the subject was pain control) which had exactly one and a half pages on childbirth. Meares said not to worry if the method didn't work all that well because it will when you need it.
I couldn't really get into the method despite its simplicity. So my husband read from the book while I focused on listening to his words.
It worked perfectly. My daughter was also transverse (supposed to not happen, but it did) and I had no trouble at all. The only problem was that I made so little noise, and was so cheerful that the medical staff didn't notice I was ready to have the baby (full dilated) for an hour or so after they probably should have. Oh well, I was having a good time.
Too much detail? Sorry. Anyway, the method I used to have the baby is a bit more specific than the one I tried to describe above. But I have confidence that it is equally good.
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
| alix |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 17:34:34
I agree, Tolle's books are fantastic. Very accessible and very usable. He made me realize so clearly what was driving my unexplained variations in symptoms and that was priceless. |
| tmsjptc |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 17:23:31
This is definitely turning into an interesting string. I would agree that meditation isn't the end-all method for pain relief the way Sarno-work is. In my case, I got 80% of the way there with Sarno books and most of the rest of it with "enlightenment" authors like Tolle. I'm certainly no master, but in my opinion, enlightenment is available for all, not just a few. Granted, normally an epiphany is what helps bring it about. In my case, when I finally realized I had gone through 16 yrs of pain that I had given to myself, it was essentially an epiphany. I was blown away that this was possible and I began to question practically everything that I'd previously believed in. |
| alix |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 16:54:44
Did the Meares method/practice something that helped you achieve a symptoms free state?
I have personally done 2 years of daily meditation, 90 minutes/day minimum and while it helped, that did not make me symptoms free.
In my case it is only when I did the psychological work in isolation, without distraction, that I really started to improve. |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 16:03:13
Alix said, "njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us."
Still I think it's a matter of our choices, especially regarding the direction we take in life. Dostoyevsky said something to the effect that knowing you are going to be shot in the morning concentrates the mind wonderfully. I suppose that's an epiphany. Aren't we ALL going there, some morning soon?
Anyway, I'm not trying to talk anybody out of their choices. Far from it.
Sylvia, thanks so much for the link at the top of this thread. It put many things in place for me. I'm sorry if I hijacked our thread to any degree. Just not thinking.
|
| pspa123 |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:12:41
quote:
Originally posted by alix
njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us.
I seriously doubt I could achieve a loss of color vision through meditation. |
| alix |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:07:40
njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us. |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 13:33:50
Alix, my bad. I didn't mean you repeat "Calm, peace" throughout the meditation. That's the mindset and maybe you'd say it a few times just to settle yourself. Then, you don't repeat anything because that prevents the deepest possible experience. You simply let it happen.
There isn't much in the Zwar's book about diy. Much more on how Mearse carefully trained his cancer patients to reach a very deep level of meditation. I think it was several hours a day (in a group, in his offices) for six weeks before he was satisfied they had got it. Then they were mostly on their own but he often refers to occasional contact. Some of his most successful patients would divert, suffer setbacks and have to be brought back on track.
As I mentioned, Meares wrote many books but most are out of print. I'm searching for reasonable prices, at this point.
You also said, "I am sure that Meares or De Mello were enlightened and pain free. But I am sure that they chose a very different life then what we live. That path is just not going to happen for us because of the life constraints we chose for ourselves."
Actually, Meares was a hard working psychiatrist, under attack by his mainstream colleagues, with a wife and family -- the "whole catastrophe". He was famous for his gentle serenity (I saw him interviewed on tv and certainly noticed it) which he attributed to meditation. Not at all removed from real life.
As for De Mello, one of his main points (in the video, above) is that we choose our constraints and most of us have NO intention of letting them go. We think happiness lies in our constraints. I'm paraphrasing here but De Mello quotes Eric Berne (I think) who said most people don't want out of their ****, they just want fewer waves. Quite a metaphor!
For me, the phrenetic ambition I have personally suffered from all my life is no longer appropriate. I am old and will likely die within 4 or 5 years, at most. So De Mello speaks to me. Thanks, Sylvia.
As for Ainslie Meares, 45 years ago I was in a Quebec hospital (no English spoken) and used a little book by him to have a baby. Very successful even though the kid was transverse. So I'm a fan. As mentioned, I also saw him interviewed and he said some fascinating things that have shaped much of my thinking for the past 30 years.
So, I thought I'd mention it on the forum in case anyone else was interested. You never know.
|
| alix |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 12:12:37
No but he is enlightened. I don't know him but like others he must have experienced some sort of epiphany. You can learn from his books but it won't make you an enlightened, pain free being. For most of us we have to apply the recipes given to us by Sarno and others. |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 12:08:29
Anthony De Mello is not about meditation. No other life required. |
| alix |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 11:54:54
Let me a bit a contrarian here (as expected from me).
I have done several meditation retreats from Ojai to Sonoma.
To repeat "calm, peace" for 3 hours IS mantra meditation despite what Dr.Meares says. It is the same as counting 1-2-3, chanting the name of a saint, or following your breath. There is no easy or hard meditation. It is very easy but hard to accomplish properly.
I am sure that Meares or De Mello were enlightened and pain free. But I am sure that they chose a very different life then what we live. That path is just not going to happen for us because of the life constraints we chose for ourselves.
There are studies that show that meditation for most of us (that do not dedicate our lives to it) offers a symptoms reduction in the 20% range on the pain scale. Most people that do meditation for pain reduction abandon it after a few years however.
|
| tmsjptc |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 10:13:41
@Balto - yes, as I recall you called me out (nicely) on something I was in denial of. A bit late, but thanks for doing that
@Sylvia - unfortunately my employer apparently blocks access to the site you provided, so I couldn't get to it. But, maybe I'll check it out from home. I regularly read audiobooks because I get 2 hours of commuting everyday. So thanks again. |
|
|
