| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 00:41:14
How cool is this?!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2955480/
I learned about that here in this new book by reading the look inside function
http://www.amazon.com/Pathways-to-Pain-Relief-ebook/dp/B00B4DFATS/ref=cm_rdp_product
Now who can read a study and interpret for us what the numbers/outcomes mean?
A selfish reason for me, what do the numbers mean in regards to fatigue change?
For a chuckle, scroll down this page for a pictogram
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0080-62342009000500012&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 22:04:44
Hi Andy,
Wow: it's still hard for me to type my Dad's name, let alone say it. It'll be 3 years in August since he passed.
No, my therapist wasn't Alan Gordon. I too didn't know it was experimental; I'm glad I was experimented upon! |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 21:52:24
Hi jegol71,
Was the ISTDP therapist in Los Angeles Alan Gordon? He has posted here on this forum as alangordon; I did not know ISTDP was considered experimental.
For those who want to hear a session.
http://tmswiki.org/dl/GordonWebinar120721.mp3
This took place on the Wiki forum, and was introduced by Forrest.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 20:42:03
quote:
Originally posted by balto
very clear Jegol, thank you.
Now tmser's can have another tools to help them heal. I sound to me like a kind of talk Journalling. Instead of writting it down, we now just talk it out and have a coach sitting close by and steer us in the right direction.
I would say you're absolutely right, if we were able to have the page we write on tell us what was worth writing and what was worth balling up. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 20:37:59
very clear Jegol, thank you.
Now tmser's can have another tools to help them heal. I sound to me like a kind of talk Journalling. Instead of writting it down, we now just talk it out and have a coach sitting close by and steer us in the right direction.
Thanks again,
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 20:20:28
--So it will help you identify and feel the feelings that you didn't know you have?
You may know you have certain feelings because you were told you had them, or thought you had them, but if you repress out of necessity to function in society, or if you grew up being afraid or angry, and were told that was immature, you can develop repressed emotions that become neurotic symptoms, also known as resistances.
So the therapist, for example, notices you shake your head really fast and smile inappropriately. They will call your attention to that,and it that point you can focus on feeling what caused you to do that in the first place, which MOST PEOPLE NEVER DO. At that moment, for me at least, I felt a panic throughout my body, like I was on a rollercoaster drop that never ended. And other times I would express the anger, say who I was angry at, and since my tendency is to self-punish, I would even start hitting myself suddenly.
Those are examples of things I never knew I had in me.
--What happen after you identify those feeling.
You can say "Oh! Now I know how DEEP my anger and fear run inside my body." And then you relax, because when you have those feelings in the future, you understand them in this framework, and can feel them better.
And how will that help?
It helps because it allows you to accept the narrative of "I HAVE ANGER, I HAVE PAIN." And then it can become an affirmation that you understand. And if you know you have anger, if you've felt it, it doesn't have the impact it did when it was unknown. It's been exposed.
If you heard a bad noise coming from your air conditioner, and ignored it, and the sound got worse and worse, it would be stressful. But then you examine the air conditioner, and see that maybe it can't be fixed, but that the sound comes from a misaligned fan. So the noise no longer scares you. Just like the sensations of anger don't have to anymore.
This was all put into context for me when I realized that I had a self-victimizing story that I kept telling myself, about why I couldn't change things. When I shifted from a passive to active participant in my life, AKA moving to Florida and handling things I needed to handle, I realized that the victimization was just one more self-destructive habit used to repress the anger.
I know that's true for me, because no healthy person wants to maintain themselves as a victim. Studies show and evolution favors active participation in our lives. Doing things to improve ourselves. We want resolutions to our stories. That's why the severe chronic pain victimization is pretty much a 1:1 correlation with repressed rage, and why the symptoms are the worst, just like mine were.
I hope this is clear, but then again, if it was, I'd have been done with therapy long ago, and now tilling land somewhere high up.
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| balto |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 19:50:34
Thanks Jegol.
So it will help you identify and feel the feelings that you didn't know you have? What happen after you identify those feeling. What happen after you feel the feelings? Let them go or just feel them, experience them? And how will that help? Please explain more. Thanks.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 19:24:34
Balto:
ISTDP= Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy.
It's experiential therapy, which means that you don't go in and talk about your feelings. You may start out doing it, but the therapist is keenly trained to observe defensive patterns that suggest a feeling is not being felt. They let you know about this, and call your awareness to it. Making you aware of yourself in a new way. "If you teach a man to fish..."
The traditional psychoanalysis average is over a decade in session, which to me suggests not that the therapy really works beyond masturbation or trickles of intrigue, but that by the end of it, some things have happened that have made you a new person.
ISTDP averages from a few months to a few years. In my first session, after being TOLD by previous shrinks that I was essentially impervious to talk therapy, I found a great therapist in Los Angeles, and after discovering my issues of self-destructive behavior with him, COMPLETELY CHANGED THE COURSE OF MY LIFE AND MOVED BACK TO FLORIDA. This was a big deal, because I am a screenwriter, and basically needed to be in LA, according to the coffee shop wisdom.
What does it say about the integrity of a therapist who tells you to move somewhere to improve your health, guaranteeing that he won't make money off of you anymore?
Hope this helps. Let me know if I can offer anymore.
Oh yeah, they also videotape you in session, and you get to see YOUR body's movements in response to feeling feelings, like watching a replay from the bleachers of what you do when in anger.
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| balto |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 19:12:13
Can someone please help tell me what ISTDP stand for and what is it about? Never see the term before. thanks in advance.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 18:51:03
Plum,
You are the uncorked laureate that screams our cause's poetry at itself. Beautiful words. Soon enough, they will be beautiful lenses, showing you how far you've come.
You will find Howard to be an infinite ally if you choose to work with him again.
Sylvia,
I emailed you about the program. I hope it has caught you softly. |
| plum |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 15:02:53
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Dont worry plum, we'll be your support and you will get better, just keep working at it
Thank you Ace1.
Jared nailed something when he said:
"Howard entails you in a community of one with his writing, and goes to great length in both titular and extra-titular capacities (through his message board and personal reaching out) to be that dream doctor many here have never had, the Goldilocks zone of reassurance."
Doubt is a profoundly harmful crucible.
And to this, add the following poison.
For years my husband visited all manner of doctors and specialists before his diagnosis. Years of watching him slip away with no help and no answers. By the time we knew what was wrong the specialist thought my boy would be dead within 5 to 10 years.
They didn't bargain on my wild soul or my love or my absolute belief that he would heal. It's a curious agony to live with Death's promise everyday.
So you see, I have this fearful thing in my mind. To have an *authority* on tms look my way and say 'you are freer even than the angels' may extinguish this.
I do not lack resolve.
Everyday I witness the power of faith.
I think now I must conquer the fear that constellates in my flesh and you are helping me do so.
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| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 11:41:36
Sylvia1-
I don't frequent that board much, because I get everything emailed to me, and see everything. People are very supportive there, and Howard is himself a peer with authority on there, learning like we all are. It's an anti-cult.
I know this because when I was in endless widespread pain and stiffness, I ate my sense of reason and joined one that focused on bodywork and removing trapped memories from fascia. I had no choice. I swing a big bat when pain science turns cultish.
If you have any questions to me personally, since I don't create much of a dialog on there, feel free to email me at ----.
I wrote a blog post for Howard on narrative medicine, which goes to show that it's not just a one-way stream.
Best of luck, and congratulations on doing something that feels right.
To many more.
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| Sylvia |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 10:11:31
One hundred shmundred dollars. So what? What does it matter if I can at last earn income?
I am joining Dr. Schubiners online program. I believe it is my best bet, and I am very lucky. I am all in and I will win.
jegol71, if you are still on his forum I'd love to talk with you there. Look for me when I join tonight or tomorrow.
I have joined up and I am sylvia-1, (Sylvia won, get it?) at first look it appears MASSIVE, the information...I won't be commenting on it until I am through with it (around a month, but I don't think I could be as thorough as jego171) and as for the book and cd, I won't comment on that until afterward. I eat books for breakfast, done with SteveO's less than a week, Nicole's in one day.
But this online program forces bite sized progress, little by little. Which for me seems ideal. I may just keep his book and cd in the Amazon box it comes in, and open it as a little graduation present.
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 10:05:13
I appreiciate your kind words Jegol, I will one day, just not ready yet. (remember, I had TMS, I'm a perfectionist) :) |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:58:37
Yes I do think it all compliments each other, just like Balto said. Just DONT GIVE UP. Once Dr. Sarno said to me that everyone who sticks with this over time will continue to get better based on his experience. |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Thanks jegol for your nice review of his book that is very helpful. I guess maybe thats why the book wasnt that much help to me, bc I already knew without a doubt I had TMS and needed no more proof. I just needed to know how to overcome the disease. Jegol, I think the neuroscience stated in the book are just theories, but not proven science. I have to admit though, I haven't read his book in a while so I dont remember the details very well. I might have to go back and read that part again. Thanks again! I really do wish you the best and continued good health!
You're welcome, Ace. You might be right about Howard's work being based in theory, but I guarantee you it's the most living, breathing, contemporaneous science available on the subject, for however concrete the human experience can become for textbooks.
I again say, with greater gentleness this time I hope, that it would be absolutely wonderful if your intelligence could meet his and others, such as Drs. Alexander, Zafrides, Stracks, Schechter and Clarke (etc), to take this subject into the stars, so to speak. Whenever you feel comfortable doing it on the terms that fit you, of course.
I think future medicine is not complete without this paradigm, but then again I've been saying that for 75 years.
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| balto |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:34:41
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvia
Dr. Schubiner wrote me back.
Whatever book or therapy you choose will help you if you believe in that. Your doubts about the process will hamper or delay your recovery. It doesn't matter if my study shows that some people dont' get better, it matters if you get better. And you can, following whatever model fits you best from the world of TMS, whether that is Ace's keys, or Dr. Sarno's books, or Steve's book, or some combination of it all.
I very agreed with what Dr. S wrote about doubt. That is one of the biggest hurdle one have to overcome to heal. Whatever model you choose to use is not important, they all will heal, they all complement each other, and they all have no side effect.
In the end, if you can truly achieve the belief that there is nothing wrong with you and your body and you are a great, wonderful machine, and you are as healthy as anyone, you will heal.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:31:06
Thanks jegol for your nice review of his book that is very helpful. I guess maybe thats why the book wasnt that much help to me, bc I already knew without a doubt I had TMS and needed no more proof. I just needed to know how to overcome the disease. Jegol, I think the neuroscience stated in the book are just theories, but not proven science. I have to admit though, I haven't read his book in a while so I dont remember the details very well. I might have to go back and read that part again. Thanks again! I really do wish you the best and continued good health! |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:30:28
And on top of it, TT:
I just reread my journaling, to see if I was accurate about it not helping. I compared what I wrote 2.5 years ago to who I am today, and I can no longer say that it didn't help.
To clarify: Howard uses the most research-backed journaling tools. It's guided work, with prompts and associative clusters.
It's not "How's it going today, Lester?"
So I must retract what I said about the writing exercises . It foretold who I have become today in some respects, so that makes it valuable to me.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:24:25
WOW J7, great review, well written! Makes me want to take a look at it. |
| jegol71 |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:04:20
I believe that the takeaway from Howard's book that isn't found elsewhere is:
1. His neuroscience is indisputable compared to much of the other mindbody theories, and that reduces strain in people who need to "see it to believe it."
2. This contrasts with his gentle nature, which matches the tone of his writing.
3. The journaling isn't for everybody (it wasn't for me), but it is proven to help some, taking me to-
4. Howard's book is much like SteveO's, in that it is heavily researched, with links to the research in the back. He wants people to trust his efforts, and is assiduous in showing us just what that effort was.
So in closing, I think Howard does the best job of reassuring people of their symptoms: he comes the closest to PROVING that what you have is a preeminent mindbody process, to borrow a juvenile meme: "Because Science."
Is the personal growth work he offers much different from what others like Ace and Steve and Balto and Hillbilly and Dr. Sarno offer? No, but that's an issue of finding the right language. Although I will vouch for ISTDP, which Howard introduced me to (I read about it in The Divided Mind, but it came off to me then as being about as contemporary as an orthopedic iron maiden or electrification). Turns out ISTDP was right for me, because it took my infinite language of confusion, brought me into feeling feelings and defenses I didn't know were there, then reintroduced language to me to make the connection. For instance, I never knew that the word "anger" had so many sensations. But it was proved through some simple mindbody algebra in session, and this was after seeing over a dozen therapists.
Howard entails you in a community of one with his writing, and goes to great length in both titular and extra-titular capacities (through his message board and personal reaching out) to be that dream doctor many here have never had, the Goldilocks zone of reassurance:
Enough credibility to be believed, enough effort and attention to make believing enjoyable.
Is that his book or is that his person? Any good person who writes a book lives by it, inhabits it, so yes.
I hope this was helpful, and I'm sorry if anything I mentioned before created static on your healing journeys. |
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