| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mala |
Posted - 09/25/2012 : 06:14:51
Headache now for 4 days. Don't know whether its neck or jaw or tooth or what any more. Only know this is bad. Tha pain has worked its way up.
Can't eat, even walking hurts, can't do anything.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mala |
Posted - 10/07/2012 : 04:51:36
Hijack away RSR. I have no problem whatsoever.
This is interesting stuff.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 10/06/2012 : 06:58:03
Hi again, Ace ... YES your posts have really been changing the way I am thinking about my TMS and how I am approaching things, now. (I don't want to hijack Mala's thread here too much more so I may start a new thread next week when I have sorted out my thoughts a little more, but I have really been mulling over what you've said and taken it to heart, particularly these parts:
quote:
I have noticed in my practice if the reprogramming of the mind is not done through the mind power and reconditioning yourself to situations that normally hyped you up, you are never really cured.
Oh btw, some of it is unconscious, but its bc you worried about or hyped yourself up, or affirmed negatively to an issue so much, that now you will get a symptom when put in the same situation without realizing what it is that's bothering you. Even if you change your aproach to the situation at first the unconscious reaction will still be there until you can reprogram.
Well actually, I have taken apart what you've said and studied it line by line! Thanks again; I think this time I am really going for a complete cure and can see how to get there! -RSR
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 18:31:13
Good idea |
| balto |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 18:26:22
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
(ie driving to work, and waiting to eat dinner)
Oh wow! now I know why my wife is so cranky every time she is waiting for me to make dinner.  Now I'm going to ask her to do some positive affirmation when it's my turn to cook.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 17:42:57
Oh btw, some of it is unconscious, but its bc you worried about or hyped yourself up, or affirmed negatively to an issue so much, that now you will get a symptom when put in the same situation without realizing what it is that's bothering you. Even if you change your aproach to the situation at first the unconscious reaction will still be there until you can reprogram. This situation had happened to me (ie driving to work, and waiting to eat dinner) |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 17:01:26
Hi rsr,
I'm really glad my posts have helped you. I have noticed in my practice if the reprogramming of the mind is not done through the mind power and reconditioning yourself to situations that normally hyped you up, you are never really cured. It may shift to something internal. This process does seem to take a generally long time. Some people however have more suggestible minds and can reprogram much faster, maybe along the same lines of how some people are more susceptible to hypnosis. I'm glad you were able to get rid of your headaches. Now you can just take your time with the other stuff without an agenda. Btw the other sxs you talk about are related to what were talking about here. |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 09/28/2012 : 20:44:32
Hi Mala,
I've been thinking about you (and me ...) .... through this TMS "journey". When I first found Dr Sarno's work, my main focus was on getting rid of my chronic "sinus headaches" which I did, in a matter of months. But I wonder if my rather quick "success" hindered me in going deeper... I didn't "lose" some of my other chronic symptoms along the way, like I have heard other people have. And my "method" for my sinus headaches had to do with my "thinking psychological" and my ability to abort headaches in the moment, by doing that.
Now, especially as a results of Ace1's posts (including his success story) and my wondering whether a TMS approach might help my chronic ? fatigue ? I am trying to explore things a little more deeply, maybe differently. (I also don't know whether my fatigue problems are a result of another dx'd condition that I have, so not exactly sure what I'm doing.)
But when I started, and maybe I misunderstood TMS "theory", but I thought my headaches were a result of the UNconscious anger, etc. I think maybe this notion was reinforced by Scott Brady's work, which also focuses on the UNconscious feelings. So I did a lot of journalling, etc but now I am wondering whether I need to focus more on what is actually CONSCIOUS. I am well aware of my "reservoir of rage" and actually I do believe there are many things that it would make sense I am enraged about (and which I think is perfectly reasonable.) And many things I am anxious or fearful about, and yet I didn't really see those as contributing to my TMS because they were "conscious."
But now I am getting a different "take" on TMS, and I am rethinking all of this. Especially I have examined Ace1's success story and some of his other posts, and these parts particularly struck me, because they are different than how I approached my own chronic pain problem, but I wonder if they might be helpful to my other chronic symptoms:
quote:
I knew my problem had stemmed from my having made myself revved up from always being in a rush, but I didn't know how to reverse it. I came across mind power and started to use affirmations and visualizations to reverse this need.
I also found out that challenging the symptoms in anyway was actually slowing my recovery down. It just kept me focused more on my symptoms instead of allowing me to focus more on tension reduction and changing my intense reactions.
I found also I was conditioned to get symptoms in situations that I had hyped myself up to on countless occasions in the past and I had to use the mind power techniques to recondition my mind.
Think of your symptoms as more of a strain than anything else, therefore everything done with your mind and body has to be done with ease, comfort, forgiveness and patience.
It is better to constantly keep a watch on your inner reactions and this will teach you way more than journaling, then when your inner reactions are intense you observe them, don't add more fuel to them, accept them, then use your affirmations to counter them, but without immediate expectation. I think that the most common reason for symptoms in this society is being in a rush and trying get rid of the present moment. If in pain and you can't figure it out, then this is usually the cause 95%.
In my experience, I had people not pay attension to their bodies at all and just work on the mental strain and that was enough. I think that we may tend to strain more with our bodies when under a mental strain and this should be avoided if possible. Its as if the mental tension is so great, that we tend to strain or brace with our bodies as to make it more tolerable.
(THANKS, Ace1!)
I definitely am aware of feeling a great deal of chronic "mental strain" but because it was conscious, I didn't think it was a cause of any of my other symptoms, particularly. Now I am wondering if all of my mental strain IS really affecting my physical health in a moment-to-moment way and wondering if the whole point is just to feel mentally peaceful inside, (which will eventually result in better physical health, including no more pain anywhere). (?)
RSR
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| balto |
Posted - 09/28/2012 : 16:29:11
quote:
Originally posted by mala
So I have looked at the link that you sent about the meditation course & I am enrolling in the one in Oct. The latest one started 2 days ago. But Gosh they do have a strict adherence to all kinds of rules.
The Buddha had to meditate for years before he was "awake" 
By the way, from reading many of your posts I kind of guessing your family is belonging to the Upper class in Hong Kong. (travel, maid, convertible...) for many years, in my learning about mindbody I have notice that people in the upper class also have a much higher rate of tms/anxiety. I don't know why but I'm guessing:
- compete with the jones. You have to act in a certain way, dress in a certain way... You have so much to worry about. your look, your finance, your status, your safety,... -> stress, strain,...
Kurt Cobain, Michael Jackson, Carpenter, Brooke Shield, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_major_depressive_disorder
It must be hard to be rich and/or famous.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 15:48:15
Hi Mala,
Ace1’s suggestion to revise your signature is a good one. I did just this last week.
“Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)”
used to read:
“Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)”
The word “soon” indicated that I was in a hurry. I’ve since realized TMS has no timeframe, and that rushing is counterproductive. I now have a correct mini affirmation in my signature.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 12
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 13:10:14
mala, i think it would be helpful to take out the signature that affirms to that your fed up withn your unconscience, it is the opposite of how I would like you to approach this. Also work on patience and see if you can go to a high mountain by yourself and see if you can just sit there and enjoy nature for 2 hrs by yourself, You will want to leave after 15min, but see if you can recondition yourself to patience. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 12:17:16
Hi Mala,
I am glad you are seeking help on a personal level.
In the interest of TMS truth I have to say I scratch Sheila’s back for about ½ hour. I forgot the ½.
When she has had enough she often says: “I’m going to bite you”. This may sound strange, but we have a “princess cat” that bites us when she has had enough scratching.
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 12
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Birdie78 |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 08:06:48
With me once the pain starts, it doesn’t go way. It becomes permanent. Its always there no matter what, So the concept of temporary is very hard for me to accept.
Mala, I exactly know how you feel. Most of my pain never disappeard and became chronic, so it's a pain-map all over my body in the meantime. I think it's that kind of thinking-pattern that fuels TMS-symptoms. When I am in (a new) pain my first thought - like a reflex - usually is "oh my God I assume this pain will became chronic because all of my other pain became chronic, too. I must be under a witch's spell, one more pain I'll have to live with".
It's very hard to change this pattern but I do my very best to tell me there's no reason to be in fear, it's nothing serious, it's only TMS and of course it will disappear when I try to figure out what the symptom wants to tell my. I've already been successfull with some kind of "harmless" pain that suddenly pops up from nowhere and that gives me some hope that once a time I'll be successfull in treating my chronic pain (permanent condition without one painfree day since 1996).
One of my medicines called me Mrs. "Avoidance"  , I guess the guy's right. Always tried to avoid pain, to avoid fear, to avoid sadness...to avoid failing, to be continued. In my case first accepting and then to let go will be the key instead of avoidance and wanting to get rid of all that immediately! As long as I can remember I used to practice this kind of catastrophying and it will take some time to gradually transform this into more positive thinking patterns. Perhaps years, who knows (I am an impatient person, too )
Wish you luck, Mala!
Kind regards from Germay sends Birdie |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 07:25:55
"With me once the pain starts, it doesn’t go way. It becomes permanent. Its always there no matter what, So the concept of temporary is very hard for me to accept."
Mala, just a quick comment on your above statement. This sounds like fibro/TMS, a deeper form of TMS but TMS none the less. To me that would be good because it is NOT structural but benign, "curable" TMS. Good you will be seeing a therapist, though not TMS trained. Make sure the therapist is on-board with the TMS strategy or find another one. You are the boss in this, if you feel they aren't talking the TMS talk, bail and interview others. You can always do the phone consult or plan a trip around a TMS holiday to see a TMS doc and some sessions with a TMS therapist.
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| mala |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 04:51:29
Thank you all for yr posts. I did drag my sorry little ass to the play & while it was very enjoyable, I have to admit I was tense the whole evening. We had drinks and dinner before & I had a Mojito & tried to chitchat with everyone but was very very conscious of my discomfort. Many times during the evening I told myself to relax & enjoy myself but even when there are moments the pain is not so bad I am nervous just anticipating it.
I was quite sad too. I have a lovely group of girl friends that I have known for over 25 years & I was always the one that would have people in splits of laughter regaling them with things that had happened to me. I was the unconventional one among us all & things always ‘happened to me’. I guess it was coz I lived more & had more experiences than they dared to have but yesterday I realized that I was a former shadow of myself. I didn’t say much mostly coz of the pain I was in. I think they all noticed it too.
Balto, as usual you are spot on about accepting the pain & intellectually I understand what you are saying. I tried the little breathing technique that you wrote about but honestly when I was in pain I couldn’t focus. So I have looked at the link that you sent about the meditation course & I am enrolling in the one in Oct. The latest one started 2 days ago. But Gosh they do have a strict adherence to all kinds of rules.
RSR, wow 2 excellent posts. I liked your idea about accepting the pain & saying that its OK to be in pain. It feels much better than shouting at it and moaning about it which does cause more stress. I actually did that. Again impatience kicked it & I was cursing it . Its like the breathing & meditation. I give up very easily which is a reflection of the type of person I am. Impatient.
Making decisions is hard for me coz I want to be in control of both situations. All situations. I want this & I want that! Sigh!! Again that is who I am. There is no doubt I am ramping up the pain as you say becoz of the way I am.
TT , you are so right about ‘knowing my stuff’ You know if there was a written exam on TMS I bet I would get a distinction. God knows I’ve been at this for a long time. Sadly though I have failed miserably in applying the knowledge to help myself And I realize that this is where I need help. Thx for the info on Will Baum. You will be pleased to know that I have found someone here and although he is not TMS trained it doesn’t matter. I will mention it to him & we can take it from there.
Ace1 I am doing normal things like walking & driving even though they cause some discomfort . They are both things I enjoy & don’t want to give up. About accepting the pain as temporary, I have a lot of trouble with that. I find it hard to believe becoz whenever I get a pain, it becomes chronic. I know people who have pains, they take some pills, do some therapy & they are back to normal . I have a cousin in the Indian Army. He's a Major & flies helicopters. 3 months ago his chopper crashed from a height of about 400 metres. His co pilot died & he sustained v serious injuries including ruptured spleen, broken bones. I spoke to him last week & he told me he has no pain whatsoever now. With me once the pain starts, it doesn’t go way. It becomes permanent. Its always there no matter what, So the concept of temporary is very hard for me to accept.
Andy, Sheila is very lucky to have someone like you. That you will scratch her back for an hour is amazing. Robert will at most give me a minute & then lose interest. My helper Sharon who lives with us will always give me a rub when I need it though which is a huge luxury. And BTW I have found someone in HK whom I can have sessions with .
Hey Eric, thx for yr wishes. I do take a painkiller when I really have bad pain but you are right, alcohol actually works better.
Guys I’m really lucky. Thank you all for concern, quick replies & advice. It is very very much appreciated.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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| andy64tms |
Posted - 09/26/2012 : 13:43:46
Hi Mala,
Balto mentioned the five senses including touching. Have you had your husband give you a good old “head scratch”? Depending on your type of headache this might be beneficial in more ways than you can imagine.
I scratch my wife’s back every night for about an 1/2 hour or so. Usually she falls asleep. When she has a headache, I also scratch and massage her scalp. I benefit from this as well, as I find it very soothing. Without words or vision, the power of touch that SteveO discussed in his book has the ability to bring our equilibriums in line and reduce our tension.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 12
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/26/2012 : 11:00:29
So rsr, I really didn't read your entire post so I may be missing something. When I said not to challenge the pain, I mean go and use a painful part over and over to show it you are going to win with force etc. On the other hand you still have to act normal and do things like normal people. So I am NOT suggesting you restrict a certain part but just use it normally, don't take your weight off of a painful leg, don't avoid it's use , but use it normally. This will naturally lead to pain, but this is the pain that balto talks about accepting. You have to embrace the effected part as part of your normal body and it will be used like the rest without special focus or consideration even it it hurts. Then work on the tension as I have mentioned. If you don't do it this way you still perpetuate the pain. TT, I'm not sure about the therapist thing, I don't think it can hurt, but in my own case I don't think a therapist would have helped me. Mala, is probably doing one of three things wrong: she is not doing the affirmations and visualization on a regular enough basis or she is not monitoring her inner reactions all day. She also may be challenging or restricting too much. If she is doing everything, then she hasn't given it enough time. She should go with her friends try to act normal don't restrict, it will hurt, but she is just being normal not challenging so with practice and living your life this way it should start to fade. A therapist maybe helpful if she has no idea what's bothering her |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 09/26/2012 : 07:29:11
I think there is a big distinction to be made between TECHNIQUES (ie behaviors we can do) and OBJECTIVES (what we are actually trying to accomplish.) And I think that is where some of the confusion comes in the varying (conflicting?!) bits of advice.
For example: I think that the following are "techniques": meditation, visualization, going on a holiday, breathing techniques (many different ones), affirmations, positive self-talk, meds, just going about doing things "normally," even TMS therapy or TMS-specific workshops, mindfulness meditation, mindfulness living, going to a play, taking a break, etc etc etc ... ALL of these in my mind, are just activities/ techniques, behaviors, ALL OF WHICH CAN BE DONE IN A STRESSFUL, STRAINFUL, INEFFECTIVE, UNHELPFUL WAY.
Nothing "works" for every person, to accomplish the REAL objective(s) in TMS treatment, which I have been seeing are various ways of FEELING BETTER, as stated in various ways (thanks all!) by:
ART: Peace. Acceptance. Laughter. Compassion (above all to oneself). A serene courage.
ACE1: Focus more on tension reduction and changing my intense reactions.
How do you relieve strain? Do you strain more and try to fight more? of course not. You relieve strain, by relaxation. Think of your symptoms as more of a strain than anything else, therefore everything done with your mind and body has to be done with ease, comfort, forgiveness and patience.
BALTO: I acknowledge that the symptoms will be with me for awhile until my emotion calm down and my mind is at peace.
STEVEO: I will try to lower my tension level.
About going to the play: As Ace1 has said: "I think if you are undergoing a very tense situation it would be countrrproductive at that point to just challenge pain as you are not taking care of the root." ... so would going to the play be CHALLENGING your pain? (something Ace has said has been generally counterproductive for himself and his patients.)
>I feel rotten. Should i accept that I can't go & just be happy with that or challenge myself & get going .
Do you think it would be more RELAXING and enjoyable to you, or just more STRESSFUL and tension-inducing? Do you think you would end up in more pain? Would you truly FEEL "just be happy" by accepting you "can't" go? (I am remembering Balto's post on the 90/10 rule... you can't change the 10% fact right now that you are in PAIN, but the other 90%? How do we handle the 90% we DO control to reduce the STRAIN we are feeling??) Which choice would reduce the strain more?
>I feel the pressure of making a choice one way or the other.
I have often felt that pressure, too in making choices for myself and now I see it as just another manifestation of how I am so tense and stressed within myself because even "simple" decisions cause me as much stress as true "life and death" decisions! I have to be "right", I can't make mistakes, etc etc. And all that just ramps up the stress and tension and STRAIN, and THAT is the "root" of the TMS ... and no amount of any helpful "TECHNIQUES" that are suggested are ever going to help me, if I am not meeting the OBJECTIVE of reducing the strain!
I also keenly noted Matthew's insight as to just WHAT is TMS:
MatthewNJ: "Take stock of your anger level on a scale of 1 - 10. Let's say it is a 9. Then try to evaluate what the "average" anger would be. EG: if 100 people experienced the same thing, what would their anger level be. Let's say a 3. Then the difference between 3 and 9 is TMS, not true anger."
Just reword this idea for your situation: "take stock of how difficult it is to make the decision to go the play or not, on a scale of 1-10. Let's say it is a 9. Then evaluate what the "average" difficulty would be. EG If 100 people were asked to make that decision, what level would the difficulty be?" Let's say a 3.
Then the difference between 3 and 9 is your TMS ramping up ! If it is going to be stressful either way, then that also shows how TMS can be ramped up, *no matter what we decide*... because the dis-ease, the tension is within our thinking, not our ACTIVITIES or behaviors ...
I have been getting a different "take" on TMS lately from many posts...(THANKS so much, everybody!) I solved my own chronic pain problem quite a few years ago, now, but as I try to go to the next level with my health, I am delving deeper into how to go about doing it with symptoms other than pain...
Mala, I hope something in here is helpful for you, too, and that you start to experience more calm and ease and peacefulness inside... no matter whether you go to the play or not!
TECHNIQUES are many and varied and perhaps endlessly suggested, but the TRUE OBJECTIVE– to reduce strain and feel calm and peacefulness inside, is what we are truly trying to accomplish ... right? ??
RSR
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| balto |
Posted - 09/26/2012 : 03:13:18
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee....Arise, and take up thy bed, and go unto thy house. And he arose, and departed to his house.
But Jesus turning and seeing her said, Daughter, be of good cheer; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Matthew 9
Have fun Mala, forget your earthly body for a while, it will do you good.
“Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.”
—Albert Einstein
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| mala |
Posted - 09/26/2012 : 02:27:08
Thank you all for yr replies. I will post in detail later.
About accepting or carrying on. I am confused.
Today I have to see see a play. Tickets were bought ages ago. My friends know how I am feeling and tell me not to worry if I can't make it.
I feel rotten. Should i accept that I can't go & just be happy with that or challenge myself & get going .
I feel the pressure of making a choice one way or the other.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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| balto |
Posted - 09/25/2012 : 19:09:42
If going to another country for therapy is not something you want to do at the moment, I highly recommend you give meditation a try. There is an organization that provide free 10 course all over the world, there is one in Hong Kong too. Take a look at there website and see if you can spend sometime taking the course. http://www.dhamma.org/en/
The course is taught for free, even the foods and drinks are free. Here is world wide locations: http://www.dhamma.org/en/alphalist.shtml
The Buddha taught it. Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai lama, Dr Herbert Benson and countless others have said it will improve and change our health and our mind for the better. It's our life, we need to take back control of it and meditation is one of the way to do that.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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