| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 12:57:08
Hi Everyone,
I thought this latest piece of news would be of interest to you. It is nice for the research community to be piecing together how our thoughts can literally affect/modify pain.
http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/05/27/how-training-the-brain-reduces-chronic-pain/
It is interesting to speculate if this "brain map" theory may possibly explain how the brain "changes" in response to our thoughts when we are doing the PPD/TMS treatments. The actual biology of TMS has been elusive to even Dr. Sarno over the years. I really believe we are very close to finding out exactly how our thoughts create/affect/modify/stop physical pain.
Never, ever doubt how truly powerful you are!!
Be Well,
Dr. Zafirides
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/22/2012 : 14:04:49
RSR,
Thank you, I am glad it helped. I would like to hear more about any process that helps change the brain. Nueroplasticity is new knowledge, the ability to change is not. I just started "The emotional Life of Your Brain" by Dr. Richard Davidson. Same stuff.
As far as where stress comes from, I have found that Dr. Sarno was correct in the three p[laces he noted (for me at least)
-1- Child hood ( which may be as simple as not being listened to or as complex as sexual abuse)
-2- Day to day stuff (marriage, kids, job, etc)
-3- Those of us that are goodists and perfectionist. We set goals we can never reach and then get angry at ourselves for not reaching them
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 22:28:26
Hello all,
I've been following this thread quite keenly and wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts!
MatthewNJ: I VERY much appreciated your sharing and examples! Especially this:
>Then the difference between 3 and 9 is TMS, not true anger.
Also, I have been very interested in the ideas about *present-day", even conscious frustration, rage, anxiety, etc ramping up my TMS, and making a conscious effort to release that tension, vs perhaps long-buried UNconscious rage.
In terms of neuroplasticity and "rewiring the brain" I have been using a program called Emotional Brain Training. It was developed by Laurel Mellin out of UCSF and her latest book is called "Wired for Joy." It's definitely been a life-changer for me (I was introduced to it, in its previous form, called The Solution Method, by someone else on this board.)
RSR
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| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 14:16:34
I find I don't necessarily need to get to, or identify a specific emotion every time. If I can, great. If I can identify what caused it (not being listened too is one of my biggies) that is great too. Because then I can get to the source. More important for me is knowing I am reacting, accepting the emotion, being "with it" and letting it process through me. In the "road rage" example, sometimes it is the act of recognizing it first, and not even getting to the rage part. So for me, releasing it when it happens, or tryiong to avoid it when I can. It like my bylne says "less activated, more regulated and more resilient".
and as an FYI, Dr. Sarno was the first one to admit he suffered from TMS himself!
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| stayfit65 |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 11:00:00
I have watched these videos from Lorimer and they are very educational...my trigger for pain now really only consists of sitting, except for the occasional knee pain while running. I really want to be able to turn off this signal by the brain that something is wrong... Do I just keep repeating to myself that nothing is wrong, and eventually those messages will stop? Thx guys,.trying to go on with life but some days are better than others... |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 01:26:58
I've been going through a divorce for 2 years. My back went nuts several times during the couples therapy sessions. Hadn't had pain in years.
I tend to agree, Balto. While some causes may be deep rooted, most are more easily explained. I look at what's happened the last 5 years of my life and it's no wonder I had a nervous breakdown.
I will say however, childhood experiences help forge our personalities which leads to TMS/anxiety. So, for some there may be value in unearthing a few things. But, IMO... only as a means to make change. |
| balto |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 21:11:07
quote:
Originally posted by MatthewNJ
The way Dr. Evans taught me to recognize this difference:
"The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize is often not THE anger and rage causing TMS"
I've always wonder how do doctors or anyone know what emotions is causing tms? Why can't The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize cause tms? Does those angers have to first go into our memories and then go into your subconcious mind before it can cause tms 10 or 20 years later?
It is very difficult for me to tell someone who've just lost a loveone or just went through a nasty divorce or just lost a job and in very bad financial situation that their anger, their fear, their worry in the past month is not what is causing their back pain. It is the anger that he has about being bully 20 years ago deep deep down in their subconcious that is causing him pain now.
I really believe that current stress if allow to become chronic is what causing anxiety and tms. We shouldn't blame our pain on thing that happen in our past. What is in the past is incapable of causing pain, unless we re-lived, re-think about it in our mind.
If you look at the xray of 100 people with herniated disc and only about 20 of them have back pain, does it make sense to blame our pain on the herniated disc?
If you look at 100 people who were abused when they were young and now 20 of them have pain symptoms. Would it make sense to blame their past for their pain?
I think we got to focus more on de-stress our life right now instead of blaming our past for our pain.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 10:08:25
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
it's comforting to know even the Good Doctor suffers from this too.
Tom,
The feelings that you, or Dr. Sarno (or any of us, for that matter) has are all part of the human condition. We feel them because we are human. For some of us, however, we express the anxiety and anger of the human condition as painful physical symptoms.
Being a "doctor" does not make one superhuman - a point I wish many of my physician colleagues would realize.....but that is a topic for another day :)
Great discussion on this thread!!
Dr. Z |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/17/2012 : 09:37:03
Thanks for the example MatthewNJ, that helps. I recall Dr. Sarno gave an example of getting mad in traffic and his wife needing to calm him down--like the universal inferiority complex, universal road rage--it's comforting to know even the Good Doctor suffers from this too.
I realize now, if I'm in a road-rage situation and try to get even by cutting off the instigator, then I look like the ass-hole to the others up the road who don't know how it started.
Cheers |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/17/2012 : 07:56:13
quote:
Originally posted by eric watson
Yes. In brief, they have to do with gradually challenging the brain so as not to rile up the nervous system too much at once and then lose ground. In short, not the "no pain no gain" method. But also not simply giving up, which reinforces the pain. The trick is in the middle; always challenging the pain at the edge. ......This is an awesome reply and it works-it works for me....thanks
Eric,
I am really please it works for you. Please pay it forward when you have an opportunity.
to take this to the next level, in my experience is to recognize it isn't so much your brain as it is the little kid inside you. When I got cut off in the car HE felt scared, HE felt it was unfair, HE was mad. So the mext step is to recognize that. Then Comfort him, protect him, let him know he is safe and you wont let anyone hurt him. Let him kow you love him. Then there is no challange per se, there is love and understanding.
Dr, Sarno uised to teach that we should yell at out brain. Dr. Evans taught me the above appoach. And me and the Little kid inside me are very close now.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/16/2012 : 12:28:39
I'm glad it works for you, Eric. I think it is extremely useful to spend the time watching all three of the 45 min videos from the Canadian people, along with Moseley's. After watching the videos you will have a very clear explanation of what is going on with chronic pain. For example, you will learn that pain does not necessarily equal tissue damage; and in fact, with chronic pain, it most often doesn't! You will learn that there is not one pain center in the brain (old thinking), but many. Danger signals from the peripheral nerves are integrated with thoughts, emotions, beliefs...and the brain tries to make sense of all these inputs; either to produce pain or not. It's truly fascinating. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 09/16/2012 : 10:58:50
Yes. In brief, they have to do with gradually challenging the brain so as not to rile up the nervous system too much at once and then lose ground. In short, not the "no pain no gain" method. But also not simply giving up, which reinforces the pain. The trick is in the middle; always challenging the pain at the edge. ......This is an awesome reply and it works-it works for me....thanks |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/16/2012 : 10:07:35
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by MatthewNJ
Dr.Z,
The way Dr. Evans taught me to recognize this difference:
"The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize is often not THE anger and rage causing TMS"
like this: Take stock of your anger level on a scale of 1 - 10. Let's say it is a 9. Then try to evaluate what the "average" anger would be. EG: if 100 people experienced the same thing, what would their anger level be. Let's say a 3. Then the difference between 3 and 9 is TMS, not true anger.
Thank you Matthew, that sounds very useful. Could you please give a practical, day to day example, of how you utilize this. Perhaps in a situation that most TMS'ers may find themselves facing. I think I could wrap my mind around it better, if I saw an example of how you do it, in a day to day situation.
Thanks
Tom,
here is an example. I am driving to work. I am at a typical spot where the traffic is moving about 15 MPH. Someone cuts me off. I get angry and tense and I curse the guy. Some fight or flight response has been activated. Now, being mindful of this, I realize my anger is probably about a 6-7 on a scale of 10. In reality, this is an annoyance on a scale of 0-1. I realize this and consciously choose to release that excess energy, relax the grip on the wheel and let go of the tension in my back. The reality is I was moving 15 MPH. I am now 1 car length further back. What was the point of all that fight or flight energy?
The more I practice this, the more mindful I am about choosing to NOT get angry about things like this. Much less on a scale of 6-7.
Does that explain it?
"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." Viktor E. Frankl
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/13/2012 : 09:09:47
quote:
Originally posted by MatthewNJ
Dr.Z,
The way Dr. Evans taught me to recognize this difference:
"The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize is often not THE anger and rage causing TMS"
like this: Take stock of your anger level on a scale of 1 - 10. Let's say it is a 9. Then try to evaluate what the "average" anger would be. EG: if 100 people experienced the same thing, what would their anger level be. Let's say a 3. Then the difference between 3 and 9 is TMS, not true anger.
Thank you Matthew, that sounds very useful. Could you please give a practical, day to day example, of how you utilize this. Perhaps in a situation that most TMS'ers may find themselves facing. I think I could wrap my mind around it better, if I saw an example of how you do it, in a day to day situation.
Thanks |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/12/2012 : 20:25:49
Dr.Z,
The way Dr. Evans taught me to recognize this difference:
"The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize is often not THE anger and rage causing TMS"
like this: Take stock of your anger level on a scale of 1 - 10. Let's say it is a 9. Then try to evaluate what the "average" anger would be. EG: if 100 people experienced the same thing, what would their anger level be. Let's say a 3. Then the difference between 3 and 9 is TMS, not true anger.
Pspa,
Have you tried reading any success stories of others who are on the , more long term road to recovery? I too did not just get the knowledge and feel better. I read MBP in 2003, saw Dr. sarno in 2004 and started seeing Dr. Evans in 2005. I have been working on it since and wil continue to work on it always. check out my story, maybe it will help.
http://tmswiki.org/forum/members/matthewnj.28/
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 09/11/2012 : 21:03:37
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Yes I agree with you, but I think the question for most of us is once we recognize our issues are brain-based, what do we DO about it? For many, it appears, that knowledge by itself seems to be enough, or at least makes a substantial difference. But for others, including myself, it isn't, and just begs the question, what then? And unfortunately, for me anyway and I doubt I am alone here, as the pain persists, inevitably thoughts about other causes creep into the inner dialogue.
Pspa,
The pain of TMS will continue as long as there is a need and purpose for it. For some people, they get that "A-HA!" moment where by just reading and understanding, they get relief. But just understanding the process is not enough for too many others - the pain persists.
Unconscious emotions are not that easy to truly uncover. The anger-anxiety-rage-futility that people can recognize is often not THE anger and rage causing TMS. The emotions of anger and rage that one can "figure out" is usually conscious emotion, not the unconscious emotions of TMS.
It isn't always easy. I certainly sympathize with your struggle.Your pain continues despite your hard work. It isn't because you aren't working hard or doing something wrong. Make sure that in addition to the TMS work that you routinely take time to be kind and compassionate to yourself. Take the time to stop and recognize how hard you are working. And forgive yourself if you are getting down on yourself for still being in pain.
You are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Pspa, you - and all of you here at the TMSHelp forum - should be very proud of the work you are doing to improve your health and decrease your pain. It is not easy to allow yourselves to be vulnerable and challenge those emotions - emotions your mind deems threatening enough to try to distract with pain.
This takes courage and strength.
That strength is yours. It is REAL and it is TRUE.
Don't ever doubt your strength.
Kindly,
Dr. Zafirides |
| Fox |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 19:24:56
Thanks for the advise. Didn't want to pay that much unless really worth it...I recommend that first video posted. The guy is so funny! Just because of that, it really holds your attention. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 18:30:52
Fox, you might call up a couple of enlightened pt's and see if they have the book in stock for patients. Otherwise, it's really not necessary to buy the book. You can get most of this from several of the videos on the link I posted. A couple of them are Moseley's videos, but the other three 45 min ones from the Canadian Pain Coalition give you nearly the same ideas and techniques. I would simple watch those. |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 13:03:10
This is how I see Lorimer Moseley's work as relavant to my recovery. Nueroplasticiyt! The brains ability to change! I have chosen to change how I speak and think and act. This takes working on it every day. These changes allow me to be less activated more regulated and more resiliant. And therefore in less pain. I am unfamiliar with Lorimer Moseley's work, other than the Ted talk I viewed (and enjoyed immensly). I have read Dr. Dan Siegel's work "Mindsight" and I just started "The Emotional Life of Your Brain" by Dr. Richard Davidson. Both of these works provide mechanisms to change your brain. Also, although his work predates the discovery of nueroplasticity, Dr. Peter Levines work "Healing Trauma" is going down a similar path. He also provieds a method to make these changes.
BUT, do not expect miracles. You get out what you put in. I have used these techniques for many years, and the more I practice the better I get. If you practice and do the work, you WILL see the results. Permanent results.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| Fox |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 12:07:21
Very helpful concept, wrldtv...That you need to take the middle road - challenging pain at the edge...Are the exercises at the end of the book mental imagery/creative visualization rather than physical movement based? (Am thinking about buying this book, but boy, is it expensive! I have ordered his cheapest book off Amazon - Painful Yarns - just to put my toe into the water.) |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 12:06:15
Yes. In brief, they have to do with gradually challenging the brain so as not to rile up the nervous system too much at once and then lose ground. In short, not the "no pain no gain" method. But also not simply giving up, which reinforces the pain. The trick is in the middle; always challenging the pain at the edge.
There are actually exercises at the end of the book which get you to simulate the painful movements w/out your nervous system reacting in pain. The point is to re-train the brain, not the body.
Most of the book is learning how pain physiology works, which gives you confidence that it is often the brain rather than injury that is causing the symptoms. |
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