| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mala |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 03:06:34
And this is what I believe. I know that sarno in HBP says that we don't but we do. I'm not talking about big personality changes - small subtle changes are all that is required. We are in pain because of who we are and how we think & if we do not consciously change our thought patterns & the way we react to the pain then we are doomed to stay in pain for the rest of our lives. In fact i bet anyone who has had any success in getting rid of their pain is a slightly different person to who they were when they were in pain.
The acquisition of knowledge is fundamental in the battle against tms but more importantly is the application of that knowledge. How we apply that knowledge is different for different people ( some may journal, some may use techniques in order to think psychologically, others may find that ignoring the pain is enough, yet others may find success in resuming physical activity) but it is that application that is the key to success. You can read and understand all you want but if you do not bring about a pattern interrupt or pattern change then the acquisition of knowledge in itself is not enough to. When you bring about a pattern interrupt or pattern change you have changed. Keep at it long enough & you will see changes in the pain as well as in yourself.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kenny V |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 08:58:03
quote:
Originally posted by mala
I do really think why some people get better quicker than others is becoz of the way they think about their pain and also their attitude towards it
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
Indeed Kenny its the way those people think in cultures where there are few doctors & medical facilities that helps them get better quicker. It the way they think
Not to change the subject of “change”
But id like to add comment on those who believe they will get better , commit to it work hard at it and get better.
One example I wanted to share (wrote about this some time ago but cant find it)..
Anyhows in short . If you look at rehabilitation of Military soldiers who have had severe battle wounds/ limbs blown off , they are among the fastest recovery rates . One reason to note is they were trained to fight and not give up. They would not settle for anything less than victory..
Think about it.... many that overcome a disability and beat the odds go on to accomplish great things too.
My best
Kenny v
Always Hope For Recovery
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 06:54:43
quote:
Originally posted by taxman
quote:
Originally posted by BecB
I am really angry at myself for letting things spiral back into pain, panic, depression mode.
...Yourself protected you the best way it knew how. You've learned from it and now,...
...Please don't get "mad" at yourself because you're whamming yourself with a major nocebo!
...We're all human and we need to try different things to find what works.
How about saying, "I'm proud of myself because I am taking an active protocol to improve my health and since I have learned new things, I will trust the process and not judge my progress but rather, take things moment by moment all the while relishing in the fact that I am improving and that's amazing news!"
Good post Taxman, very TMS insightful points!
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| PhilMid |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 05:00:30
Mala – many thanks for starting the ball rolling on this post on how important it is for us to recognise how our thoughts can affect the body.
Here is a simple exercise that helps. Each day, think of 10 things (or more) that you are grateful for. So little effort and easy to do anywhere.
Phil
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| taxman |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 19:15:50
quote:
Originally posted by BecB
I am really angry at myself for letting things spiral back into pain, panic, depression mode.
Becca, I really recommend you shift that thinking. Yourself protected you the best way it knew how. You've learned from it and now, you're taking positive steps. Please don't get "mad" at yourself because you're whamming yourself with a major nocebo! It's OK. We're all human and we need to try different things to find what works.
How about saying, "I'm proud of myself because I am taking an active protocol to improve my health and since I have learned new things, I will trust the process and not judge my progress but rather, take things moment by moment all the while relishing in the fact that I am improving and that's amazing news!"
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| mala |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 17:06:00
BecB, personally I'd make myself as comfortable as possible. Painkillers, patches, gels whatever. It's very hard to focus on anything when you are in pain. You just get more and fearful & anxious and then your body tenses up and you get even more despondent and this cycle is just awful. You beat yourself up becoz you are hurting too much to think psychologically & I,ve noticed here that a lot of people start having this guilt thing about taking medicine or doing anything to ease the pain.
Even Sarno says to take something if the pain is too bad. Of course you must remember that the real cure lies in the mental work & changing the way you think.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| BecB |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 06:56:24
Mala,
I agree that this is the issue I have. Were you able to just sit with the pain, even when it was at a level 10? I am confused whether it is best to sit with the pain, day after day, or to take a medication to calm myself down in the short term. I read differing ideas on this topic. I am really angry at myself for letting things spiral back into pain, panic, depression mode. I thought I had done enough work so that it wasn't possible but I guess that is not the case.
Becca |
| mala |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 02:52:16
Thank you bryan3000.
I do really think why some people get better quicker than others is becoz of the way they think about their pain and also their attitude towards it
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 23:12:22
Mala,
Grateful you've been posting more. Very insightful. Thanks.
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| mala |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:09:37
Thx bugbear for the link & catmac keep us posted on how you are doing.
Indeed Kenny its the way those people think in cultures where there are few doctors & medical facilities that helps them get better quicker. It the way they think.
There are groups of thoughts that cluster together that you need to break in order to move on. Usually these t noughts are negative ones & you may find there is a pattern to them. For example the pain comes on & you go. Oh no, then the next feeling is anxiety or fear & the thought associated is this is here to stay or I'm not getting better. Sarno says that we should think emotional or psychological, think about what emotion we are repressing. Well when you have delved all you can delve & journalled all you can journal, there comes a time when thinking about the past does not serve you anymore & that is what I found with myself in fact it became awfully depressing.
The next stage is then to break those negative thought patterns . Every time you find yourself having a cluster of negative thoughts you must interrupt them and not allow them to continue. That is important if we are to recover.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 12:42:27
Here you go, catmac:
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program |
| catmac |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 11:05:23
[quote]Originally posted by mala
[
I think what started the process was doing the structured program on the website. Although prior to that I had read many books on tms I had never journalled . I did all the other stuff like think psychological , ignore the pain etc but putting pen to paper was always difficult. The program requires you to write a lot . In the beginning I didn't,t know what to do , I felt I had nothing to express but once I got going i began to understand better what was happening and it gave lots to think about. The great thing about the program is it is very structured & there is feedback available if you feel stuck. I am very grateful to everyone out there who has made this program available & to those who are still working on it.
Hi Mala,
I'm new to this forum, can you tell me where the 'structured program website' is? I have just finished reading Dr Sarno's books and started to journal but am having many blank moments. Sorry if this info is already on the forum but I used the search engine and didnt manage to find it. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 10:58:46
quote:
Originally posted by mala
Then I started watching a few videos by joe dispenza. One in particular had a deep impact. It's about how people dealt with illness. The gist is that those who were successful in overcoming their sickeness were people who wre willing to change .they had to become someone different. That somehow resonated with me. If I can,t change my past, my childhood, the people around me, the situations and circumstances well at least I can change myself and the way I deal with things . I can change the way I think. I really have to work at it though. It requires practice.
.
I saw a program on bbc recently about how different people deal with pain. In poorer countries or remote places wher there are few doctors people deal with pain in a very matter of fact way. It's not that they feel it less they just have better ways of coping. They believe they will get better becoz there is no one telling them they won't. They have to get better and surprisingly they do.
Anyway I'm still a work in progress.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
Wonderful Post and like Tom said Sounds like a great outline for TMS healing for the newbees JMHO It should be put in a help/ section for useful suggestions for those struggling With TMS and / or just getting started.
In addition I think that many folks should study how illnesses are treated in other cultures . One would
be amazed of allot things they do different. For one what doesn’t exist in other countries. As well as how poor our health system is. And mostly how smart they actually are with out all the latest and greatest test tools.
My Best
Kenny V
quote:
They believe they will get better becoz there is no one telling them they won't. They have to get better and surprisingly they do
 good stuff
Always Hope For Recovery
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| balto |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 09:23:07
I'm guessing that fighting tms/anxiety is just like going on a diet. You don't know which diet program is best for you, which one would work the quickest, the safest, the cheapest... what about diet pills?... very confusing. Many question. Some would square by this program. Others prefer another program... they loose a few pounds, then regained some, then loose some, then regain some... not until they realize that the amount of calories they put in their body have to be less than the amount they took out (burn off) for them to loose weight. There is no magic. Just simple law of physic.
Tms/anxiety were created by something negative in our minds. Conscious or unconscious, current stress or something happened long ago... who care. Different tms/anxiety doctors gave different thoughts on what caused the symptoms. But they all pretty much gave the same treatment method. They gave us various way to treat ourself but all have the same goal: Don't give a Sh.. about your symptoms!
Think about it. All the treatment methods from Dr Sarno aim at helping us realize that it is psychosomatic, it is not dangerous, just keep using your body the way you normally do.... all of them design to help our brain realize that there is nothing to fear.
Dr Claire Weekes said: accept it, float with it, don't fight it, give it some time... Don't fear it.
Dr Rick Hanson ( http://www.rickhanson.net/ ) explain very well the relationship between our brain and stress. The effect all those stress chemicals and hormones have on our brain and how to rid of them through compassionate living.
Dr. Herbert Benson taught us how to use meditation to treat various mindbody illness. http://www.massgeneral.org/bhi/about/benson.aspx
Many many more teachers and great mindbody doctors out there. If you read, learn from them and if you notice, their methods all have the same aim: no fear, never fear. Our attitude toward our pain/anxiety symptoms should be of "indifference", "unconcern", "who care", "I don't give a Sh..", "I can live with it", "no big deal", " I can handle it"..... then go on with life as if you're a perfectly healthy person. It is not easy but it is doable and achievable.
The biggest challenge is to believe your symptoms is tms/anxiety. If you don't fully believe it is tms/anxiety, nothing will work.
Another thing is if your life is currently full of stress, hatred, loneliness... negative thoughts.... it is almost impossible to cure yourself of tms/anxiety. How are you going to be cure if you keep coming home and tell your spouse how much you've hated your job. Or telling your best friend how much you've hated your mom. With stress like divorce, unemployed, care for a sick relatives.... tms/anxiety is always nearby.
Focus on de-stress your life instead of your symptoms. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 08:40:56
Hillbilly,
Awesome as usual. Thanks.
Is there a post from the past where you sum up your anxiety battle and how you beat it with a little detail? I know some of the tools you used. I use some of the same. But, your recovery is inspiring. (Recovery stories is where I find inspiration.)
Any chance of telling us a bit more? I haven't been around long enough to know the details. Thanks again for the contributions. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 08:24:59
cnotes,
I understand and appreciate your quandary. It is part of the process, unfortunately. I was a desperate soul once in search of a solution that fit my view of things. I had to be rocked to the core to change my mind, and in some ways this is echoed in the language I use when I post. I hope you can reach a point of resolution at which you can pursue a path to recovery on your own time and in your own way.
What I'd like to add to my earlier comment is that subconscious elements are no doubt involved in the perpetuation of symptoms, but that is because your conscious outlook has not changed. You don't see the light entering the cave, so your body is responding in a contracted and low-energy survival mode while you puzzle your way through. I would suggest you read and learn about the amygdala, emotional response centers, and the hormonal and neurotransmission links via the brain and the subconscious functions in the autonomic nervous system. This is what I mean by subconscious functions. They are reflective of what is current, not what happened 30 years ago.
There is little doubt that we avoid pain that we have encountered in the past, be it physical or emotional. In fact, I see little distinction. Both make us feel, physically, like crap. But if we are to change our future, we have to embrace the past hurts and mistakes as nothing more than learning experiences, and not steel bars that cage us in to repeating our mistakes. This could get into free will and philosophy, which is a place we shouldn't probably go here, but if you are so inclined, have at it.
I suppose my bottom line is that I somehow found the will to make today different from yesterday. I have choices, as do we all. We can choose to listen to whomever we wish, to the conditioned voice inside our head that says we better not, shouldn't, can't or whatever. We can also choose to listen to people who inspire us to try a new way, a more proven way, and learn that indeed we can. It is indeed up to us. That is both terrifying and empowering at the same time.
I wish you and all here the very best in your search for truth and meaning.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| cnotes11 |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 21:50:36
You may be right....
At this point I'm trying to remain as open to possible solutions as I can while maintaining a small critical edge. However at the moment I disagree with the statement that everything relating to subconscious it marketing. But as you pointed out how much room do people who have not found a solution to their problems have to talk? Sure we are entitled to our opinions, but maybe I am in left field and just dont see it yet.
Also when I think about it more it really doesnt matter. If I do what you advise + pursue things on a subconscious level the intended goal is the same. I don't think these would counteract each other. Maybe some wasted effort if one is right and one is wrong. Or maybe they would compliment each other.
I certainly plan to take some of the advice given here, and work with the new ideas presented. At the end of the day speculation and thinking only take you so far. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 07:38:59
cnotes,
I volunteer with people in my community who are dealing with stress problems. That's all this is. Don't make it into some sort of lifelong mountain you have to climb. You don't accept your symptoms and you think you have to do something to defeat them, so therefore you are in a constant state of self-rejection. Think that over. You don't like you, at least a large part of you. Illogical, yes? Damaging, yes? And the chemical reaction to such thought is adrenal secretions that prepare you to fight...something or flee....something.
If you aren't an abnormal psych case, you have really only one thing to do, and that is to engage yourself in activities that you know from past experience bring on the worst of your pain. This is called exposure therapy, either interoceptive or in vivo, and it is incredibly effective. You don't need a therapist for it. You can take a trusted friend with you who understands what you are dealing with. You have to be able to distinguish how you feel physically under duress vs. how you feel on a Sunday afternoon at the park or in front of the television to make the obvious connection between your thoughts and resultant emotions and your pain or whatever other symptom of stress that you are dealing with.
Once this is firmly imprinted on your mind, and you are convinced that stress does indeed change you physiologically, you just have to trust that the statement that so many have made to you since your journey began, and that is that the pain is nothing at all. It doesn't keep you from being able to do anything you choose to do. It sucks, it hurts, you don't like it, but you can just forget about it and go on. You can't drive it out. You can only drive out the fear with logic. Until you believe it is nothing, it will occupy your mind as some sort of monstrous problem that you have to focus on and work your life around. That simply isn't true if your problem is stress.
I am often amused and a little saddened by all the advice given here by people who have not solved this problem. What value is there in hearing what someone else is doing while they are suffering equally or worse than you? Make a plan for your life that doesn't involve accommodations for pain. Then go for it. That is the cure. Self-discipline and action. You will see the results in a short while. I am sorry you came to this with the idea that you have to fix something in your subconscious or unconscious. This is unfortunate and not at all necessary. It is nothing but marketing.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Darko |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 04:27:43
quote:
Darko said: " You have the results you have right now based on the actions/thoughts/perspectives you took in the past." And I agree, but is consciously approaching life in a different manner today going to make symptoms simmer down over time or might it only change things to a degree?
Cnotes,
This depends entirely on you........living with TMS is an ART not an exact science, and ultimately your success depends on the relationship you develop with yourself ( emotional/inner child )! However I dare you to take the "Pepsi challenge" and try it on for the next few months, and find out for yourself. Take on mine and the others suggestions and see what results YOU get.
Changing the way you live today is just as important as looking at the stories and emotions you created about past events. They go hand in hand if you would like great results, sit and ponder your past events and how you might have felt, also who you are currently being and all the negative emotions generated.
Create a life you choose that serves you better and cease being a victim of the BS producing drama machine.......the thing between our ears
D |
| cnotes11 |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 01:19:17
Interesting thoughts all around. I agree with what Mala and many of the rest of you had/have to say. In some ways, as horrible as being chronically in pain is, I appreciate what its taught me and some of the changes its forced upon me.
That being said, I am still struggling to reconcile one aspect of this in my mind. Is changing your conscious thought pattern, i.e. "who" you are enough? I mean this in a rhetorical way, clearly no one can tell me...but maybe for you Mala it is? Many others seem to agree, "its a process", etc.
My concern comes from reading I've done on emotional imprinting in the subconscious -- causing physical symptoms -- and conscious thought not being enough to address the issues. I am looking for something curative and while I would never dispute anything anyone has said on thread as being helpful I wonder if its enough.
Darko said: " You have the results you have right now based on the actions/thoughts/perspectives you took in the past." And I agree, but is consciously approaching life in a different manner today going to make symptoms simmer down over time or might it only change things to a degree?
Maybe part of this is being 25 and not wanting to accept this as some type of lifelong project where I simply get better at coping as my only defense..... Where the pain is only tempered by my positive thought patterns and learned acceptance.
I dont know but I will say I am grateful for this forum.
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| bryan3000 |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:17:50
Holy cow, just read Mala's second post and missed the Dispenza reference. Pretty funny coincidence, but not surprising. I believe it's the right philosophy. |
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