| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 08:07:02
Dear Balto, your posts about fear in general, have been very helpful to me and I am improving rapidly. I am reading Claire Weekes book, but to be honest, I cant say the secondary fear or the floating applys to me as opposed to generalized fear to everything, and just pushing that feeling out like you did and saying screw it. This has been indeed the most important thing. Thank you for your advice. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 07:35:34
Well, Ace, it seems fairly straightforward to me that if you approach something from a standpoint of peace or strength you'll have better results than if you approach with fear, expected defeat, or anticipated increase in pain. But if there is nothing wrong with your body, just nerves making it "feel" as though there is, the mindset of healing and confidence should pervade. Of course, this is something that needs reminding constantly as you attempt to recover.
"There's nothing wrong. I can do it, pain or no pain, and I won't relent because it gets uncomfortable." That was a sort of mantra for me.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 12/01/2011 : 16:04:10
Hillbilly, I don't think I really fully understood you post at first, but now I get it. You said you kept specifically challenging your pain knowing you couldn't hurt yourself until the pain left which took about 8 wks. I guess I haven't been consistent in challenging it, which maybe why I'm not at 100% . I guess when I was asking before do you go about this with a sense of peace or strength, I didn't know if challenging it was the wrong thing as it brought more attention to the matter, but I guess your saying to be persistent. Thanks again
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 11/26/2011 : 18:36:12
Ace, sorry, I didn't realize you are an MD. Even so, I don't think I buy your 100% confidence that arthritis is simply TMS. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 10:11:07
Makes sense hillbilly, thanks for the clarification. I more so ment that if out of anger you sometimes just keep doing the movement that hurts over and over just to overcome it, it sometimes puts your focus more on it as opposed to just go play sports etc where you don't think about a particular movement, your involved in the game. |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 10:07:22
quote:
The concept that really helped balto and hillbilly get to 100%. A lot of us are fighters and it's our tendency for us to try to challenge the pain instead of accepting it and going about normal tasks.
That's very interesting to me! I actually visualize wrestling/fighting matches with the TMS monster, whereas I beat it up so much it's just laying on the ground battered and bloody. And then I challenge her to get up again only to meet the same fate. Thus far that is not working. That is not to say that it hasn't worked for some. I guess even though I'm beating the snot out of my TMS, I'm doing exactly what she wants me to do, giving her attention. And it's not working for me, then of course I get frustrated. Perhaps it's time to try just ignoring her instead of giving her the attention, which just makes her more powerful.
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| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 09:20:38
Ace,
Careful here. I DID challenge my pain to a duel, but not overtly until I had some confidence that it was stress causing the problem and not structural issues with my hip or shoulder. I used to hold my arm straight out for 5 seconds and give up, but I worked up to doing it for two minutes. I also did some exercise that was aimed at loosening up my joints that had not been used in years due to fear of pain. Confidence in your outcome is key, so however people get there is therapeutic.
In his first book, Sarno wrote that any therapy that regained confidence in one's ability to function could be curative. He was still using PT for his patients probably because it got them moving again. Afterward he stopped prescribing PT and went full-on with the talking therapy.
Ultimately, it is fear that keeps people from moving, and not just fear of pain. It is what the pain might turn into that stops us. Fear of pain getting worse, causing us to not be able to walk, pass out in the mall, or whatever. Anxiety-related symptoms are never about the severity of the symptom in the moment, but what your fearful mind perceives might happen if you don't seek relief. Stop that and you are past it.
Yes, I did accept it, and took note of how badly my cells wanted to seek relief, but if I stayed with it, believed it was stress and couldn't harm me, what was there to do except see if it would melt away on its own, even when it got to the point of torture? You have to develop this will about you to accept your pain or whatever else you are experiencing and carry on with your day. If it's bad, take heart. You can't ease your way through it, in my opinion. You just have to be determined that you won't cower away and hope for a better day tomorrow. That better day might be today, so hang in.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 08:41:23
Hello guys,
Just rereading Baltos post again today makes me realize how very insightful it really is. The concept that really helped balto and hillbilly get to 100%. A lot of us are fighters and it's our tendency for us to try to challenge the pain instead of accepting it and going about normal tasks. Taking the focus off, which is hard for our personalities to do, may be the reason we have not yet achieved a cure in a short time period. I think Baltos post may be helpful to help us remember how to do this since it's so eloquently put. I have also found affirmations to helpful in helping me achieve greater peace. I found others that had to do this to also achieve a cure on this forum. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 07:09:54
TaylorJoh...
quote:
How are you now? Are you working through it? I can imagine doing the TMS work is so much more difficult when you're told you're doomed by a professional. But they're wrong a lot. That's good news for TMS'ers. Would really like to know how you're managing, if you're up to sharing.
Yes, Taylor, it is a bit more difficult when you hear that you're a hopeless case. And you hear it again and again.
I have had to discount the back problem. This was first.
Then the complications from the surgery.
It took calming down and paying closer attention to my body.
I am doing much better and am much more comfortable, but, like some of the posters in this thread point out, I still have some buried fear. Not a lot, but some. The fear is that I somehow still have a back problem, I've concluded. So I have not worked through it. Hard to believe when I am jogging and lifting weights and have no movement problems; yet those seeds, planted so strongly and by so many, have a hold somewhere. Compared to last year at this time, when I first began my TMS journey, I am 1000% better physically and mentally. I could not even ride a bike or jog last year at this time.
I am working through now the essentials of bearing the discomfort as my final (I hope) leg of a "cure".
The posters who say that you must resume life, bear and accept the pain, eliminate the fear, and go forward in a more hopeful way, are correct.
For some there is more fear and more possibilities to work through.
I hope that you are doing better. Funny, yes, and sad, how things said by professionals can stain thinking.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 07:02:10
Ace1,
I think that's a really interesting theory and probably a lot of truth to it. I'm TMS to the bone, always worrying, stressing, have anxiety. And I have a ton of symptoms.
My mom and dad on the hand are very different. My dad NEVER stresses about anything. I used to think he had some psychological disorder lol. I mean, how can you not stress about anything? But my dad has never suffered a day of pain in his life unless it was a car accident or attacked by a dog, something acute in nature, never chronic. And he always recovered 100%.
My mom does stress but when it gets to the point it's normal to stress and she does get TMS symptoms but then manages to work through it, fix the problem and if she can't her motto is "F-it". It's interesting to note, she doesn't believe in TMS. My grandma suffered a lot of pain her life and I'm just like her. It would peeve my mom to no end when doctors would tell her it's all in her head and she'd watch her mom suffer a lot. So, for that reason, her mind is closed to it.
Anyway, I really appreciate the response, of course I think there is a lot of truth to your theory.
Thanks,
Taylor |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 06:49:22
Back2It,
Isn't it funny, for most people when a doctor tells you it's "all in your head" people are offended, but for us TMS'ers it's the best news in the world even though the onus is on us to fix it?
When I first found out I had a large fibroid tumor the doctors told me "oh it's nothing, millions of women have it." So for 7 years I did nothing about it. But when I had my first surgery for appendicitis (which the problem was really hernias) and they saw the fibroid tumor was getting close to my lungs and one doctor said, "You gotta get that thing out of you, it's dangerous!" I started having tremendous pain, anxiety and stress spiraled out of control. So I got it removed and you guessed, nothing improved! Not one bit. We're incredibly susceptible to what doctors tell us, but remember, 99% don't know about TMS or they don't tell their patients about it because they it's offensive and not what they want to hear.
How are you now? Are you working through it? I can imagine doing the TMS work is so much more difficult when you're told you're doomed by a professional. But they're wrong a lot. That's good news for TMS'ers. Would really like to know how you're managing, if you're up to sharing.
Thanks,
Taylor |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 21:38:30
Ace1...
quote:
I think in some who recover in a couple of months their biggest problem is that they fear the pain and what it can do to them and when they get over this and resolve this conflict, their pain goes away. It was like the pain was started ue to something transient emotionally and persisited due to the fear of the symtpom. I think for others it maybe something engrained in their personality that is causing a conflict all the time, like the need to constantly rush.
There are probably as many reasons for quick cures and slower cures as there are people in the world with pain. A lot depends on the individual situation.
With myself as an example, I think it would be hard to do the 2 month cure for the following reasons:
First, my major pain symptom was my right side extending to my back. Woke up one day with it.
1. I had had surgery for gallbladder four months prior -- some complication could be the cause of the pain.
2. Had an MRI which showed a herniated thoracic disc T7/8. The referred pain from that goes right to side, according to docs.
3. Possible pain and discomfort from an incisional hernia, on that same side.
I was told by allopathic docs and other medical practitioners that I was doomed (because of the disc) and I had to live with the pain. Most docs and PTs would not touch me for fear of paralysis. The chiropractor I had seen early on told me I'd never be 100% again.
I have had to work through the possibilities that I had nerve problems from surgery, of having the worst possible location for a disc herniation, and also other complications from surgery. All effecting one area. My pain never moved around.
So for those who have had no surgeries, have a clear MRI and are declared "healthy" by allopathic doctors, it is, I believe, an easier journey. Believe me, I would have loved to have heard from a doctor that my pain was psychogenic, but they all pointed to one to three causes. But I guess that was there jobs, and given my medical history they probably were going for the mostly likely culprit.
Once (or many times) that you are told you are a dead man walking it takes more than two months to work it out of your head.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 21:35:20
I am an md |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 20:28:20
It's great to have enthusiasm and confidence in your TMS work, Ace, but what Kesh says, seems like a no-brainer. If your knees are bone to bone, barring divine intervention, you are not going to be running marathons. I think it is a real stretch to say absolutely arthritis is TMS, no problem. Unless you are an MD yourself, like the two TMS docs Tennis Tom saw, you are not in a position to proclaim anything, but your opinion. If you try to extend TMS theory beyond the logic, you are doing a disservice to the theory and to the people who might actually believe the bastardization of it. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:36:48
quote:
Originally posted by Ophelia
This is all such fabulous advise and so encouraging to a chronic sciatica sufferer deep appreciation to all of you. Ophelia
Hi Ophelia, if it's any consolation, I had sciatica many years ago as part of my lower-back pain complex, and was able to get rid of it totally without anything invasive. I can't recall the details of it now, but I can recall devising a sling and pulley contraption to the ceiling above my bed, to help stretch my leg out to alleviate the excruciating pain that was preventing me from sleeping. It was TMS "penicillin knowledge", and time, that eventually banished the sciatica pain.
I once met an ex-tennis player at a tournament who was watching from the sidelines. He had a hip-replacement and they accidentally severed his sciatic nerve, ending his tennis life, leaving him with drop-foot. It's difficult for me to conceive that the sciatic nerve, which as I understand it is very large, about the diameter of a finger, could be accidentally severed. This gentlemen was an Olympic level athlete in his youth and was now rendered an observer--maybe the surgeon was having a bad day.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:58:51
Dear Taylor,
Believe it or not the last 15-20% of recovery seems to be the most difficult to most people I know with this disorder. I was at one point almost disabled so 90-95% is a huge improvement of which I am proud. My process has been slow and as you can see with Hillbilly and Balto they got 100% better in less than 2 months, despite having the condition for years prior. They got something they were missing before. I have thought hard about this and have come to a conculsion that it probably boils down to 1 of 2 reasons of why someone can recover in 2 months vs years. I think in some who recover in a couple of months their biggest problem is that they fear the pain and what it can do to them and when they get over this and resolve this conflict, their pain goes away. It was like the pain was started ue to something transient emotionally and persisited due to the fear of the symtpom. I think for others it maybe something engrained in their personality that is causing a conflict all the time, like the need to constantly rush. If you have this need you always think you should be doing something else from what you are doing now and this creates a conflict constantly, it is always there. In this case the person has to relearn to enjoy the current task and not worry or rush to the next one. Since this is embedded in the persons behavior the pain from the conflict is constantly there and its not enough just to over come the fear of the symptom. I am just trying to confirm this and clarify this with the folks who have recovered completely (what I mean by that is a completely healthy individual, with no TMS equivalant symtoms) if what I am thinking is right and if there maybe something they did differently that I am missing. For example, is it still possible to have conflict and be pain/symptom free? I cannot answer this question as of right now. But what I think is that the reaction to the conflict has to be one of peace and be not out of hand. Like knowing you have to go catch a fight and your 30 mintes late, you have to say what will be will be and not let it tense you all up. So I think I have expained how I am going about this to get to my current state. Resolve your conflicts and if you cant be at peace with them. Use affirmations to help you achieve this. Dr. Sarno once told me that EVERYONE gets better if they stick with this diagnosis. I found that to be very reassuring Good luck to you! |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:40:38
Kesh this may be hard for you to believe, but once someone is healed emotionally including overcoming fear, what ever you have wrong with you eventually heals and works right. You may not be at the stage to understand this yet, just wait till your recovered and you will see. |
| kesh2 |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:08:31
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Good luck to you kesh. I'm not on this forum to prove anything, but I still stand by my comment all osteoarthritis is tms. 99% or more of people who get hip replacements do it for pain not for any other reason. How is it dangerous to call osteoarthritis tms dangerous? It's not like it's cancer. Someone who broke his leg, knows something is wrong but there are no obsessional components which is not the case in OA of the hip. Think about it how is OA of the spine any different from OA of any other joint. I have numerous reasons to say what I have said that I cannot list them all here. I wish you the best.
Dangerous I guess because if you tell someone with no cartilage in their hip joint and whose hip is locking to ignore it and go running, they are likely to hurt themselves. |
| Ophelia |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 07:38:08
This is all such fabulous advise and so encouraging to a chronic sciatica sufferer deep appreciation to all of you. Ophelia |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 19:55:47
Ace1,
I wanted to congratulate you on your 90-95% recovery. If I got to that point, I don't think there would be any skepticism as to what I was doing was at least right for me. I understand that you don't want to share any advice until you reach perfection, obviously, that is the perfectionist in you lol. But I'm curious, are you doing anything different than Sarno's "program" (for lack of a better term)?
Taylor
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Thank you Hillbilly, I will for sure look out for those things, and I am still continuing with the book , followed by at last a life witth a completely open mind. You are a fully recovered person and for that I take your advice very seriously. Once again, I admire your perseverance on this site to help others like me. Once I am 100% cured, I will come back and tell you what exactly helped me. Even though I am 90-95% better, I do not like to offer any advice to others until I am 100% as that way I am sure that I am giving the right advice. I may ask you and Balto (and others) along the way if you guys dont mind with any questions that arise along the way. Thanks again, your input is always very valuable.
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 18:55:31
Good luck to you kesh. I'm not on this forum to prove anything, but I still stand by my comment all osteoarthritis is tms. 99% or more of people who get hip replacements do it for pain not for any other reason. How is it dangerous to call osteoarthritis tms dangerous? It's not like it's cancer. Someone who broke his leg, knows something is wrong but there are no obsessional components which is not the case in OA of the hip. Think about it how is OA of the spine any different from OA of any other joint. I have numerous reasons to say what I have said that I cannot list them all here. I wish you the best. |
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