| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| patils |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 15:46:59
Sarno Theory is sheer nonsense. I too have struggled for almost one year and then suddenely came across Hilliby's post and that alerted me and then I changed my approach and finally succeeded.
Please believe me these symptoms can be 100 % stopped and that too instantly when you realise that continuid negative and fearful thinking is keeping these symptoms with you.
People are talking about relapses but not a single relapse is possible if you have strong will.
Any form of fixation will cause stress. You cannot relax when body is ready to fight and symptomes will continue. So do not try to fix these symptoms. By trying to fix we become tensed.
People who are in pain are only because they are tensed. They are not relaxing when they are supposed to relax and this continuid tensing will keep pain with them.
I have read and read Hilliby's all posts till my each body cell absorbed what he is saying and then I saw progress.
Apart from Hilliby's posts these two books have helped me a lot :
1) Mental Health ... through Will training and
2) Hope and help for your nerves.
Free copy of first book is available on net.
http://www.archive.org/details/mentalhealththro002066mbp
This is superb book by Abraham Low and it will give you honest picture of your symptoms. Sarno books are just baby books in front of this book.
Sachin |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| patils |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 00:45:27
Hi All,
I am doing great. No pain only fun.
Only I know now How happy I am and I am sure all will come out of this deadely disease.
Only advise I again suggest is : Follow Hillbilly.
Sachin
Doubt is poision for TMS healing. |
| Northerner |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 21:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by patils
But I am seeing here people are struggling for almost two years and no progress comes into picture then really something is besically wrong with approach. You may journal whole lifespan but nothing will happen.
You're right - some have have struggled for two years; I haven't. I finally decided to apply the Sarno techniques in December, 2008 or January of 2009. The breakthrough occurred when I finally decided to see a TMS doc, and emailed him in late January, 2009, with my history of problems that often occurred out of the blue (waking up with knee, neck or back pain for no reason, for example) over a ten year period. I even provided the radiologists' comments from my neck scan, which indicated degenerative disease of the spine.
The doctor read my detailed history and emailed back that he was almost certain that I had TMS. At the same time, he said not to come in right away, but to wait a few weeks and see if I got better by applying the principles in the books. I felt much better simply from reading his email, and got improved significantly over the next few weeks. I stopped using tape on my back to prevent back pain. I stopped physical therapy. I stopped having heating pads on my elbow and upper back when sitting at the computer. After a while, I got rid of the heated pad/vibrating seat in my car. I was able to drive all day without pain and without having to stop to take stretch breaks. I was playing basketball again right away. I was doing eskimo rolls in a kayak right away (you want to twist every muscle and bone in your back, try doing that). I can lift anything I want, including giving piggy back rides to 135-pound people, despite degenerative disease in the lower back as well as in the neck.
In any case, not all of us have been posting for two years with no progress. I'm not 100%. I still have some minor symptoms - intermittent tingling in the fingers and toes, and intermittent lower back pain (which comes and goes so quickly that it may be due to a new activity and not be TMS). But I'm not far away, and can really do anything I want to physically.
************************************************************************
I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened.
- Mark Twain |
| LuvtoSew |
Posted - 04/06/2010 : 08:15:28
Patils,
I ordered his book from the library, thanks. I see they have a meeting place about a couple miles from me also.
Hey I say whatever helps , is good and thanks for sharing. |
| Calvin |
Posted - 04/05/2010 : 22:06:33
quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
I just wanted to know if Low's book was helpful and along Claire Week's approach.
I, for one, think Low's book worked great with Claire Weekes. He founded a group called Recovery, Inc - to which there is a forum online that dedicates itself to his methods. I don't think links are allowed here, but just type in Recovery Inc and you'll find it. They use common phrases like, "symptoms are distressing but not dangerous", "to talk it up is to work it up", stuff like that. |
| alexis |
Posted - 03/28/2010 : 09:57:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Dr. Sarno's methods do not work for 90% of the population. Lasting relief requires belief, commitment, hard work, and a long-term view. Many people simply cannot accept the concept that the mind can cause symptoms. Many people cannot comprehend the finer points of the theory such as the importance of conditioning. Many people cannot take a long-term view and get frustrated when relief does not come quickly. Many people cannot commit to doing the work required.
Assuming this number is true (a giant leap, since these stats are not properly recorded) I think you need to add "Many people who think they have TMS do not". Remember the JimmyJimmy cautionary tale. Some percent who try the methods have TMS (or some related "distraction syndrome"). Some do not. We know it's not 100% who try it, or even who are diagnosed, that have the syndrome. Is it 90% who have it? 50%? 10%? This is what we don't know at this point.
But to leap to the conclusion that no one has the syndrome because there are those for whom it doesn't work, is like assuming there is no such thing as bipolar disorder because there exist some who don't respond, and, with current over diagnosis, probably never had it.
And likewise to assume that those who fail to respond have TMS but didn't do the work or have the commitment is making a leap. Some have other disorders, misdiagnosed, by doctor or self, as TMS.
TMS types seem to me to often be perfectionists who don't like ambiguity. And struggle for answers, even when they aren't there. We're making up numbers here, because we just don't know. We have some evidence that some people respond, some that others don't. And we have clear examples of people who were misdiagnosed. That's it. All else is guesswork. I hope we'll have better research in the future, but for now we just flat out don't. |
| patils |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 11:30:17
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Dr. Sarno's methods do not work for 90% of the population.
Hey Dave, why we cannot expand our vision and one day we will convert this forum into NGO and may receive some government funding also.
Primary aim should be to help all people who are suffering from back and neck pain.
I know, this is highly traffic dense website and if we are NGO then we may perhaps reach in almost all countries physically and have established centers across the globe and have frequest meetings for the sufferers.
I know this needs dedicated volunteers. I am ready to volunter for my country- India.
These are just thoughts came to mind before just closing my laptop.
And one day we may have perhaps noble price for giving peace to millions of people. WHy not ?
Bye and good night and have a great weekend.
Sachin.
|
| patils |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 11:05:51
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
As for the negative comments on this thread, I hope that people can see through the immature impulses of a person who clearly has not had the results he expected, and take it with the grain of salt it deserves.
If we deviate initially by 1 mm from approach, we may be perhaps 100 miles away from result. Writing through my own experience. |
| patils |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 10:26:21
quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
I just wanted to know if Low's book was helpful and along Claire Week's approach.
Yes.
Low's books are at much deeper level.
Free copy of book is available on net.
http://www.archive.org/details/mentalhealththro002066mbp
Read carefully and absorb what he is saying.
I will not be surprised,if you said , after reading book that your earlier cured back pain was only placebo.
Regarding long term peace from anxiety, We have to keep in mind that our personality is responsible for such disease and whole foundation is required to be strengthened in proper direction. This foundation means our thinking habits, prejudices , mental tendencies, character etc etc. So spiritual approach is the only proper solution.
There are so many NGO's who are helping humanity by their spiritual teaching and practises and that too at free of cost.
If you are interested, I can mail you such organisations. you can join in your country and keep in mind that it will take time to change old routed habits and tendencies.
Also you can search about recovery meetings and see below website helps.
www.lowselfhelpsystems.org
I will not be frequest visitor here but keep mailing.
Thanks,
sachin
|
| johnnybill45 |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 14:26:03
If only 90% respond to Sarno's ideas (and I'm wondering where that figure comes from), then that's no better than a placebo. I don't ever remember reading this 90% figure in any of Sarno's books. Where did this come from? |
| alexis |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 20:38:54
quote:
Originally posted by patils
But I am seeing here people are struggling for almost two years and no progress comes into picture then really something is besically wrong with approach. You may journal whole lifespan but nothing will happen.
...
If you are stuck. Please get out of this forum. ( say for month ) Try to calm your nervous system. ( meditation is great help here )
Live like healthy person. You are not going to die by this pain. Be assured about this.
This much I agree with. I think what I call "distraction syndrome" is very real, but if it's what you have, once you realize it, I believe it will be fairly obvious. It's no great mystery when you can track the pain appearing and moving quickly around at very specific thoughts or emotions.
On the other hand I personally *don't* think that everyone on this board has distraction syndrome. And it also bothers me to see them staying on forever. After watching the board for a couple of years now I'd say check it out, thoroughly. If you don't recognize it in yourself in a few weeks, move on. If you don't see improvement, consider getting additional help or looking elsewhere.
It worked for me, but that doesn't mean it'll work for you. But I ask that you guys also extend the same courtesy. What works for, and is true for you, isn't for everyone else. |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 11:15:20
Sachin,
Do you think it is good to read Abraham Low's book?
I no longer have any pain - just battling the anxiety with Claire Week's book. She is wonderful and her theory does work.
Her instructions are to let the worrying thoughts come and float through them. Our thoughts are creating the tension so the nervous system continues to be out of whack and sensitized. The only way to get the nervous system to settle down and the brain chemistry to go back to normal is to stop being caught up in fear of the symptoms. (very similar to Sarno's cure). I found this much easier to do with the pain than the fearful thoughts. The thoughts are very seductive and it is easy to get sucked in and spiral downwards, making the nervous system more and more sensitive. Her theory is supposed to work for depression too. It would certainly put the pschiatrists out of business and the pharmaceutical companies too!
I just wanted to know if Low's book was helpful and along Claire Week's approach. |
| patils |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 10:44:02
Hi All,
I really commented what my heart told me and I Know, it has hurted feeling of many including Dave. I feel sorry here since it is Dave's forum and here are really good people including Dave and give concerning replies. May all be blessed.
But I am seeing here people are struggling for almost two years and no progress comes into picture then really something is besically wrong with approach. You may journal whole lifespan but nothing will happen.
These issues of muscle pains are already studied and documented so many decades ago and nothing new and I was shocked when I read all this in Abraham Low's book. The explanation and examples and patient cases given are so superb. Although book is long one ( almost 400 pages )but gives correct explanation about what is going on.
Our will says Yes or No. You can read chapter related to Will in the book.
If you are stuck. Please get out of this forum. ( say for month ) Try to calm your nervous system. ( meditation is great help here )( calming nervous system may take month/ months ) understand how our mind is acting and how our will is responsible for all this pain. When you have convencied just stand in front of pain. It will run away.
Live like healthy person. You are not going to die by this pain. Be assured about this.
I have carried Hilliby's post in my Car, in my Pocket, saved in outlook in draft mail and read and read till I really faced pain.It just left me. Never to return. Pain will only return, if my will says 'yes' to Danger.
Sachin
|
| Dave |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 17:25:28
quote:
Originally posted by skizzik
well....I was wrapped up in fixing my "repressed rage" in order to relieve the pain...
Seems this is a common trap people fall into. Even if we wanted to, we cannot know what is the "repressed rage" because by definition it cannot be felt.
We need to accept there is nothing to "fix" and that repressing emotion is normal and part of being human.
Searching for the possible ingredients of the rage is more of a reconditioning exercise than anything else. If, along the way we find some things we have been burying and not facing up to, then it is a bonus. However, it is the attempt to find these emotions that is important -- not actually finding them.
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| skizzik |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 16:26:29
quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
What suggestions have you followed from Hillbilly?
well....I was wrapped up in fixing my "repressed rage" in order to relieve the pain, and then I could get on with my life. Like anything, when you set a goal in life thats great, but when you set a goal that life can't move on unless that goal is met, you will build up resistence and ultimately give up.
What I got from him was get on with my life, don't care about the pain (which was drilled into me by Hellny too) and fix/accept the tensions as I go dropping the search for repressed rage. Also very Monte-ish.
When dealing with anxiety I think about the impression of Joy Behar on Saturday night live, where the guy that plays her says "so what" a lot. It's a very funny impression. When I got a case of anxiety, I step back and kind of ask myself whats bothering me, and of course it's the what if's. What if I lose my job? What if something bad happens. Then I usually answer in that imitating voice "so what". Then I die, or then I'll be unemployed, who cares? I'll just get a different job, and downsize, and declare bankruptcy, and etc, just keep answering myself till I get bored and start thinking of something else. And I think most of it can be traced back to what others think of me. And I get relief, and find myself letting go.
But, in that process, if I find myself very tense, and go thru the motions of letting go and the anxiety fades, I usually get bummed out for a while, a bit depressed. I've figured out not to fight that off, and just feel depressed. Then later or the next day I feel better.
heres Fred Armison as Joy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXcQixLF8Q |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 12:17:53
Skizzik,
I no longer have back pain because of Sarno....however the approach didn't work for anxiety. I am finally beginning to make headway using Claire Week's work.
What suggestions have you followed from Hillbilly? |
| skizzik |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 08:38:28
quote:
Originally posted by patils
Sarno Theory is sheer nonsense. I too have struggled for almost one year and then suddenely came across Hilliby's post and that alerted me and then I changed my approach and finally succeeded.
I understand your fustration with Sarno patils, I too became a "Sarno Purist" and my symptoms only intensified. I had a turning point, or "letting go point" after Hillbilly's posts here too though. And I think I became angry with the "Sarno purist" theology after that.
But, It was a combination of Sarno plus the approach you mentioned that got me where I am today. It's kind of like organized religion. People find a great deal of relief in it, a comfort zone where they can congregate with others and worship, and find stress relief and love peace and happiness. But what about those that question it? Look thru the cracks, and search for the ultimate answers? And the more un-fufilled they feel finding the answers, the harder they try, and the more the oppositte effect happens (more uncertainty, more anxiety) because they need that clarity. The more they search, the more unfufilled they become, until the whole thing is hogwash, even though others benefitted.
It was'nt enough for me to "let go". I had a real abnormality, or 12 depending on how the MRI was interpreted, and I needed an MD to say observe that 80% of his patients with debilitating spine pain also exhibited anxiety symptoms as well. And with that decided to treat chronic back and neck pain the same. And for that I participated in the "church of Sarno" so to speak. But when I dwelved deeper into the dogma of it all, and needed definitive ansers, it took me a while to learn that Sarno is human, and I just needed out of him some basic premise to be the catalyst of my recovery. My ultimate path became the Hillbilly route over time and acceptence, but none of it would have been possible if not for that little italian guy in NYC who discovered my mental penicillin. |
| pan |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 16:04:56
It is pretty obvious that we could all pick over and argue about the intricacies of Sarno's thesis until the cows come home but from my perspective the true value of Sarno's ideas is that it gives us all another framework in which to consider our illness and symptoms.
I know Hillbilly would be the first to scream and shout that what Sarno puts forward and the idea of psychosomatic illness and emotional conversion is nothing new but it does appear that this concept has taken wings and flown to a wider audience thanks to Sarno and his adherents.
I think that many of us who suffer from pain disorders and/or undiagnosed ailments have often gone from GP to GP in the hope of finding an answer to our questions and all the while this is framed within the confines of the traditional western attitude towards medicine, the body and our culturally received beliefs as to what causes bodily dis-ease.
I think the value of Sarno and the TMS thesis is that it offers a logical and acceptable alternative to the concept of illness and its causality that we have bought into for all our lives. I personally have never felt it necessary to pick over the bones of Sarno's ideas...I understand and accept the concept of somatisation and feel that it it totally valid without the tacked on Freudian angle BUT having said that I can only imagine the joy and the lightbulb moment that must happen when people see that somebody like Sarno is able to offer an explanation for their suffering and ailments without recourse to a physical causality.
To say the theory is nonsense is to dismiss all the value of putting forward a somatisation theory that many of us may be able to use as a tool to heal purely because we feel that one aspect of it is questionable...as somebody previously stated, we must not throw the baby out with the bath water.
I do tend to agree with Hillbilly and do believe that a vast majority of TMS ailments are the end result of a burnt out and fatigued nervous system coupled with a negative preoccupation on our health and symptoms. Whilst this presentation has been noted and explainable for years many of us have never be aware of this and instead have been banging our heads against the constraints of traditional western medicine and mind/body duality philosophy...anyone who offers hope and knowledge that this is not the only explanation deserves our respect and our thanks. |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 14:50:26
Nicely put Dave...I like that view of Sarno's work.
I absolutely can affirm that I would not have cured my back pain without him...I would have continued on going to one doctor after another.
|
| Capn Spanky |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 11:59:58
quote:
Originally posted by patils
Sarno Theory is sheer nonsense.
This statement is sheer nonsense and an insult to those of us who got our health and lives back thanks to Dr. Sarno.
No one I have ever heard has articulated as clearly as Dr. Sarno that my pain was generated by the psychological and not the physical. That was the key for me. Everything else is built on that platform.
Does Dr. Sarno have everything 100% right? Probably not. But there is plenty he does have right. Best not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
As far as Hillbilly and the anxiety thing goes, I think there may be something worthwhile there. Different people may need different approaches. But it would all be worthless to me, if I hadn't read and applied Dr. Sarno's theories first. |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 11:55:25
As I have stated before, I prefer to look at Dr. Sarno's theory as a metaphor. Personally, I believe we cannot understand the true cause of TMS. There are many details of how the brain works that are far beyond our current research and comprehension. Of course, humans do not want to believe this, because it is against our nature.
I believe there is value in psychoanalysis, even if it is not necessarily a "cure" for anxiety. The habits we have developed, to create a state of tension in our bodies and in our mind, stem from our experiences. It cannot hurt to kick around some of the dirt we've been collecting over all these years, to learn about ourselves, and to face issues that we may have been avoiding, possibly for a very long time.
The negative emotions we do not allow ourselves to face get "pushed down" into our bodies. Do TMS symptoms serve to distract us from those repressed emotion? Or maybe they are an alternative expression of those emotions? Or maybe they serve some other purpose altogether that we cannot comprehend?
Personally I don't think it matters. Even if one wants to dismiss the whole concept of repressed emotions, it does not really matter. What matters most is breaking the bad habits we have developed. What is most important is to get to a point where the symptoms do not control you. To where you can live with them. To where you no longer fear them. To where you can even learn from them. To think about them in a totally different way, and change our reaction to them. This takes hard work, and time. The goal is the same whether you follow Dr. Sarno's treatment, or some other method. As long as one believes the mind is powerful enough to induce physical symtpoms such as back pain, and mental symptoms such as anxiety, then half the battle is won.
As for the negative comments on this thread, I hope that people can see through the immature impulses of a person who clearly has not had the results he expected, and take it with the grain of salt it deserves. |
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