| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:53:51
So I've been having some breathlessness when I stand up or go from crouching or sitting on the floor to standing along with a bit of that lightheadedness you get when you stand up fast. Been having that for a week or so here and there so I googled it and of course ended up on a heart forum. Women there were talking about symptoms and saying how their tests all were normal then this ONE lady who is 39 was saying how she started having symptoms at 35 and all her tests including a thallium stress test were normal but she had to have a stent put in after all. So I got SO freaked out that within an hour of reading that post I started getting pain in my left arm, my left shoulder, my neck, my left jaw and more breathlessness. Been freaking out since then.
Before I read that post my only problem was the on and off breathless stuff (which could be anemia for all I know or just standing up too quick) and one quick ping of pain in my left arm early in the day.
An hour after I read her posts, I was pain all over the place and it's still coming and going. Shooting pains in my elbows, in my left bicep, in my neck on the left side, in my lower and upper jaw on the left.
I did though move my shoulder around and reproduce the neck pain and shoulder pain on that side, and I also pulled my shoulder up and down and each time I pulled it up I reproduced the shooting sharp pain in my neck for a while. I also have a constant habit of playing with my teeth on the right side of my mouth with my tongue so my jaw gets pulled out of whack. When I move my lower jaw around I can reproduce pain in my right and left sides, and when I touch the muscle in the middle of the jaw on the left it's a bit tender. Now I keep having spasms in my arms (even in my right arm) and a little in my right jaw and in my left collar bone area and a little in my chest along with the shortness of breath feeling and the congestion and cough and I'm thinking Oh crap I'm a goner! I need a heart cath!
I don't know anymore. EVery doc under the sun says don't get a heart cath and my cardiologist said I don't need one but it is the only way to get peace of mind.
So I'm back where I started, feeling lousy and all because I googled. My cholesterol has been high since I was pregnant in 2007 and I am taking meds for high blood pressure and I'm overweight so I think about that, too. I'm too scared to get a heart cath honestly and don't even think I could afford it, but that stupid woman online has me thinking OMG that's just like meeeeeeeee. She said she had symptoms for 4 years and docs said she was a hypochondriac etc and she was telling people to push for a heart cath.
What do I do NOW?? My Only consolation is that all these jaw/arm/shoulder/neck symptoms weren't there for the past 3 weeks or longer and started up within an hour of reading that post yesterday. Coincidence? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| catspine |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 15:10:07
ALRIGHT Jerica You're making progress. A small start is still a good start.
enjoy the weekend. |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 14:41:02
quote:
Maybe I'll try to make this weekend a symptom-talking-free weekend.
This is a great idea. Discipline like this helps. In the meantime, or else after that (!), I think Skiz had a wonderful idea about a vacation from yourself. You need to get out of your own head. I find it helpful to do something charitable or dive into a work project. Both are great ways to think of something or someone else for a few hours. |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 13:16:38
I already play the guitar but I haven't in a long while (months? years?). I used to play every day. I used to paint, I used to draw. I have a deviant art account with a few random sketches and oil paintings I've done but those were like 5 or more years ago.
http://mamasboo.deviantart.com/gallery/
I used to do arts and crafts, needlework, listening to music, going to concerts, festivals, shows. I have a bunch of partially written books (one of just over 50,000 words and one of 14 completed chapters, another of I think somewhere around 30 something thousand words and so on). I was really creative. I had stuff published in print and online. I was a member of 3 local writing groups, one national one and the national writer's union. I used to clean my apartment every two days. I used to sing!
:)
Now I just think about chest pain and breathing and fear and blah blah blah. When I get out it's mostly to stores or doctors. I feel kinda hopeless, like any effort at this point will be point-less. ("What's the point in positive thinking when it could be your heart, anyway?")
My cardio doc called me today to tell me to take Crestor even though it's gonna cost me $150 a month because he says it's so much better than the generics and my cholesterol is "outrageous" (325 or so). Sheesh he never told me that BEFORE and my cholesterol was 325 back in 2007 when I was pregnant. I feel sorta like I'm being jerked around.
I'm going to go get some Louise Hay stuff to read.
I told my hubby I wondered what it would be like to go 24 hours without talking about my symptoms. I think I'll try it and see how long I can go without mentioning them. Maybe I'll try to make this weekend a symptom-talking-free weekend.
I do need a vacation from myself. I've often lamented how much I just need to be in another body for a while. Everywhere I go, there I am, and I am my own worst enemy. I don't like myself and part of that is because I'm stuck on "sick" thinking. I don't want to face life in this body but it's the only one I have. I feel like I messed it up and can't fix it.
I talked to a radiology guy today about testing and he even said he wouldn't get a heart cath and advised against it. He said a doc can order one and they will do that because they can charge you for it and all. *snort*
I see him tomorrow and I guess I already know what he will say. I'll start my Crestor today and I'll try to become a vegetarian and I'll try to walk a lot more even though I'm afraid of exercise. I'll listen to Louise Hay and get some of her cards to stick around the house. I'll start journaling. I'll change my focus to the best of my current ability (which is itty bitty). I think when I feel a symptom I'll snap a rubber band on my wrist and do some thought stopping. Maybe I'll pull out my guitar and start building callouses again. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 11:59:47
jerica,
when your'e ready, pick a month of this year and decide there will be no more Doctor visits, shrink visits, internet searches including this forum, no self help reading, nothing.
Don't even have them scheduled for after that month. But after that month know that you can make appoitments if needed.
Anyways, what would you do with your life if you had no symptoms? On that month do it! Take some guitar lessons, do some indoor rock climbing, play texas hold-em with others at a nearby casino, whatever.
You seriously need a vacation from yourself.  |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 20:42:48
Thank you mcone. I will respond to your post as I just skimmed it but I need to read it thoroughly but I get where you're coming from and in the mind I'm in lately I feel like we've been kinda "cheated" from all directions so I'm inclined to say do what you have to. Let me think about it some.
I need to have some hope. I waffle back and forth and just have to take that leap of faith and invest in it.
I'm looking at some of Louise Hay's stuff now and watching her movie on YouTube.
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| mcone |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 19:50:13
Jerica,
I'm no where near completely recovered (just look at my last, rambling, maniacal post on my new "Lying" and "manipulating the system" initiative)...but
I've been where you are, and possibly even worse (ok, this isn't a competition). And as hard as it is to believe this right now, I can share with you that there is a great likelihood, in fact a near-certainty that you will eventually get past what you have been experiencing lately.
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| jerica |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 17:30:31
It's funny today I was thinking to myself, "Hey I am feeling better today, maybe I'll get even better and things will be okay." Then right after I thought that I had a pain going down my left arm from my shoulder. I don't usually ever get it where I feel pain going down like that, it's usually just pings and pangs here and there. Now my jaw's hurting a little. My husband told me it's because I had that thought and my body was reacting to it. I think yeah, but I'm still scared. And I am still super sore all over my shoulders, too. So it could be from that.
I can't really stop thinking about symptoms. That's my first goal -- to just stop thinking about them every minute. |
| catspine |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 01:27:26
Jerica
You're trying to put a puzzle back together and shuffling the pieces at the same time in order to make sure it will never happen. The conflict of interest between your unconscious mind and the conscious one is what generate the TMS symptoms as many people here are trying to tell you.
Your post stating that you need to find the right type of help is just another evidence of it.
Looking for a miracle explanation that will fix the problem once and for all is not realistic .Your situation is made of several problems which overlap and are now hard for you to discern and treat accordingly and separately.
The very first things I would do if I had to deal with this problems is:
1- learn fear managing techniques and apply them so that the anxiety attacks do not ruin your efforts.
2- Identify what the psychological traumas that led to this mess are and what can be done about it and then proceed with it .
3- Find someone highly qualified and with solid references to work with you on #2. Once you find out why then ask how you can fix it. Expect having to do a lot of work: your participation will be highly required for best results.
I definitely agree with you 100% that you need help but I also fear that you'll sabotage the process if it starts to work for the reasons I mentioned in an earlier post yesterday (which you found plausible) unless you agree to work on the issue and resolve it before you jump into something else. First thing first and don't forget about the replacement you need to find.
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| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 16:27:01
Great just suddenly out of nowhere got a weird feeling in my chest/stomach like a tightening up. Like something just tightened and it feels like pressure or tightness on the right side like in the right lung or stomach. So weird! Maybe it's a muscle spasm? Ack. I'm freaking out now. |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 15:56:21
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
I get completely sucked in once I feel something in my body. It's blinding. The fear is so intense that i can't feel or see or anything anything ELSE. the physical symptoms envelop me. It's like being sucked into a black hole.
This is the exact purpose of the TMS symptoms. You need to do your best to break that cycle. When this happens, yell to yourself "STOP!" Tell yourself you won't let it happen this time. Then focus instead on "dangerous" thoughts and feelings.
quote:
There are so many emotions there that in the years after he died I couldn't talk about him without becoming physically ill, every time.
Strong evidence of a mindbody connection. The physical illness served to distract you from thinking about your father. There is something buried inside that your mind is desperate to keep you from feeling.
quote:
I need someone to take that risk with me and to be firm. When they waffle, I become jelly.
First try being firm with yourself. Don't allow the old patterns to repeat. Become aware of your bad habits and try to break them. It is not easy. Like stopping smoking or losing weight, it takes commitment, hard work, and a life long change in your thinking and behavior. |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 15:20:07
For all my talking here I'm actually really timid when face to face with people. I don't tell them what I really think because I am afraid of being judged. I felt so judged when I told her my cholesterol she asked) because she made it seem like I was about to explode all over her furniture. If I express my resignation that's wrong, too. It's almost like everything I think is wrong, anyway. I just am a ping pong ball and I realized sitting there with the doc that I believe everything everyone tells me to an extent and I will not usually contradict them or correct them or feel comfortable telling them what I really think. Instead of saying that's a load of bunk, I don't want to even go there, I will just say, "oh that's interesting, I'll look into that, I'll try that etc etc."
I know I talk a lot but it's just online, I have trouble communicating with people. I always feel like they know better than I do, I don't trust my own self at all. And then at the same time I am distrustful of others, too. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 14:15:14
It's a shame you don't live in the UK, jerica. In the UK on the National Health Service you simply wouldn't be offered endless tests if your GP (primary care physician) didn't think it was worthwhile because it's so expensive. In the US it seems that patients can have test after test after test because it's all such a money-making racket.
Personally I would run not walk from a therapist who started talking about paranormal hauntings by dead relatives. Are you able to express your anger at your therapist to your therapist?
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| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:41:37
Dave,
I get completely sucked in once I feel something in my body. It's blinding. The fear is so intense that i can't feel or see or anything anything ELSE. the physical symptoms envelop me. It's like being sucked into a black hole.
My dad was schizophrenix and a pedophile and justall around mean and our relationship was terrible, no communication just constant abandonment, neglect or punishment. Mom worked so she wasn't there to witness or defend us and she painted herself a victim with us and has since "let herself off the hook" for staying loyal to Dad and *allowing* him to destroy the family. There are so many emotions there that in the years after he died I couldn't talk about him without becoming physically ill, every time.
i know what you mean about the paranormal stuff, she kind of mentioned it as possible but also said that a possibility is I have created a dad "interject" as she calls them. A version of my dad that I've created from inferred messages through my experiences.
one reason why I never believe doctors is that they continue to offer me more scans, more tests and they will say they are 99% sure it's nothing BUT we can do a (fill in the blank test). I don't want any more tests. At the same time they introduce doubt that it's truly psychological.
At the beginning of my therapy session yesterday it was the same talk about cholesterol levels, blood tests, eating this and not eating that and what Dr. Oz says etc. Then as all the psychological stuff about my dad came out the whole thing switched to "Sarno is onto something." She started getting more ideas and theories about why I'm this way that WERE NOT medical/physical. I need a doctor who has seen enough TMS patients and a cardio who has seen enough cario patients that both know the difference between me and someone else. I need them to be in agreement on my treatment goals and what should be reinforced in me.
What I get from docs is basically "I have these tests, which ones do you want?" I don't like that. I don't want to be seeking out my own tests and my own diagnoses. I want someone who KNOWS this stuff to diagnose me and stick to that 100%. Let me walk out of there with a diagnosis and a firm goal of believing it. Let not any hint of medical doubt come between me and that goal.
I don't have that. There are few people who even think mindbody stuff is real. I need someone to take that risk with me and to be firm. When they waffle, I become jelly. |
| catspine |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:30:20
Mcone
I have had many of the symptoms you mention for almost a year before I was able to read through them as TMS symptom imperatives.
I did not have insurance or money to get tested with the full tests you describe but ironically that's what allowed me to find what really was going on. Compared to not knowing the recovery was a piece of cake and I wondered why I was so concerned about knowing.
I found the answer to that in my previous recovery from back problem when I recalled that it was not so much what the nature of the emotions was that did the trick but more the fact that was emotions at work to create the symptoms and somehow the tension went away and a malignant cause was dismissed.
Finding what the underlying emotions were would likely prevent symptoms to reappear but there is enough evidence for me now that a new source of stress can do that just as well and instead I use the investigating time to do something else while being aware of the limits not to cross and we 'll see what happens ...
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| Dave |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:51:25
Your obsessive anxiety continues, and this forum has become a new outlet for this symptom.
If your therapist is not helping then perhaps it is time to change to another therapist, especially if it is true that she is bringing up "paranormal stuff." Though, I wonder if this is really true, or if she is just trying to present your issues in a different way in an effort to reach you. Have you ever explored issues with your father? The death of a parent could be very significant, especially if there were unresolved issues between you.
Since your anxiety seems to be at extreme levels you may consider asking for a prescription for Xanax or similar anti-anxiety meds. I'm not a fan of pills, but maybe if you are able to quiet your mind, you can stop the obsessive behavior and start to focus on something other than the symptoms.
Your messages seem to be 99% about physical symptoms and 1% about psychological issues. It seems you have been cleared by medical doctors yet you still fear something is wrong with you. Why can't you accept what the doctors are telling you? |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:35:33
I think I just had the weird chest feeling only this time it also felt like a throat spasm. It only lasted a few seconds and was so vague. I'm so scared of this stuff. I'm keep going back and forth -- medical, psychological, heart, stress, freak out, don't freak out, go to a doc, you just went to a doc. How can anyone live like this?
I'm also annoyed with my therapist today for even telling me yesterday that she thought one possibility was that I could be "haunted" by my dead father. I couldn't sleep because of the paranormal stuff she was bringing up yesterday. Out of an hour of talking I think she only got about ten mins of really getting into TMS stuff. |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:27:57
Is that non invasive angiography the one where you get injected with stuff? I had a ct pulmonary angiogram last March because I went to the ER with chest pain and shortness of breath and they thought it might be a PE so they did that scan and the doc then told me I was fine. I told him I was afraid of having CAD and he said I didn't and I said how do you know and he said because he could see it on the scan. I said you can see my coronary arteries? And he said yes and looked at me like I was nuts. I remember asked if I needed a nuclear stress test and he said why would you need a stress test? and I said well my cardiologist said I could gt one and he asked "Why do you need a cardiologist?" So I mean doctors since then have said they don't think that doc could rule out heart disease with a pulmonary scan so either he was lying to me or he really could see my arteries. I did read something online
http://www.radiologysource.org/periodicals/medima/article/S0009-9260(04)00262-4/abstract
That said you CAN see if a person has CAD with a pulmonary scan but I mena I don't know, I am not a doctor. All I know is that one doctor who viewed the scan said I didn't have any disease and that it picked up 10% or more of whatever's there if anything and it didn't pick up anything. So I'm like, what do I do, who do I believe? |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:08:07
I was just sitting here trying to stay calm and was reading a post on another site about someone's symptoms and blam, I started feeling a weird sensation in my chest. Not pain, not pressure, not anything I can describe. Just like I wasn't going to be able to breathe but I was breathing fine. Like apprehension or something, just weird in my chest. I took a Xanax.
All last night I was having bad dreams and freaking out. I decided I don't really want to keep seeing my new therapist and one of the main reasons is that she keeps encouraging me to get scans and blood tests and she nearly fell off her chair when I said my cholesterol total and I feel really lectured, and like she doesn't believe herself that my problems are psychological. Then we got into some deep stuff in my past and I think she started changing her mind, but I am wary about going back for more lectures on what to eat or not to eat or what tests to get etc.
I see my cardiologist on Friday and I already know what he will say, what he's been saying for the past couple of years. He really just says well nuclear stress test or heart cath for peace of mind. I never did get to a therapeutic level of Zoloft so I don't know if that would have helped.
You're right about everything: the doctors and the therapists won't just come to the diagnosis that it is psychological. They keep waffling, saying maybe it is, I'm 99% sure (that's what my cardio doc says to me), even the therapist yesterday was all, "I won't rule out it being medical"...WHY NOT??? Only my old therapist who costs way too much (like 185 an hour who can afford that?) is the only person who INSISTED to me that it's psychological and due to anxiety and obsession. His method for my healing was really just a lot of telling myself off and I can do that for free. If a therapist isn't available to talk me down when I freak out, it's not worth it. I need someone who can be around for quick phone calls a couple times a week not just a one hour session twice a month.
Anyway, I have felt so many things and it seems in the past couple of years things have been so much worse. It's around the time my mom and I moved into an apartment together before I was married etc. That was a DISASTER and it made my health anxiety and symptoms go through the roof.
I just had the EKG the night before last. barely 24 hours ago and here I am thinking I need another one, I am all scared and freaked by my body.
I want reassurance, complete BELIEF from someone who knows what they're talking about who isn't going to say "get scans, get bloodwork, etc.".
The only things I can do medically are the calcium score and the CT angiogram or the nuclear stress test or heart cath and all that except the calcium score come with risk, and I don't like to take any risks when nothing's shown up so far. I can go up the stairs fine etc and when I just sit there doing nothing I get weird feelings.
I found my wrist and forearm pain seems to be some kind of carpal tunnel because both wrists are hurting now and when I flex my wrists they hurt and sometimes my shoulder hurts so I'm thinking the shoulder/neck/jaw/arm/wrist/collarbone "zings" are due to nerves compressed from all my tension.
What can I do??? |
| mcone |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 23:42:46
Me Too (or Me Three, Me Four, Me Five)...
And the chest pains symptoms I've had have been PROFOUNDLY distressing - accompanied by breathlessness, overwhelming fatigue and pain spreading all allound my chest, my back, down my left arm (sometimes left arm getting numb and painful and even rarely going completely dead with no sensation). And I still have these symptoms virtually every day (to a greater or lesser extent) but nowhere near as bad as I had them a few months back.
And I am regularly overwhelmed with the morbid feeling that it it is impossible to have symptoms this severe without having some kind of serious cardiac abnormality
And I've had the experience of near COMPLETE remission of symptoms - infrequently - one time it occurred right after I spent an hour with my doctor - literally in tears resigned to the notion that the integrity of my body was now forever compromised...and everytime I had an outburst explaining how my heart "must" be damaged, he explained to me (based on all my testing, and his extensive experience with "real" cardiac patients) - and rammed it into my head, that ever concept and theory I was describng was not sensible - that I don't have heart disease and that there is nothing wrong with my hear.
After going through this intense "debate" with him (which completely lacked any kind of medical visit decorum) I finally and actually believed him - and his explanation must have penetrated into my psyche (into the autonomic nervous system programming?) somehow. I left his office virtually symptom free! and stayed that way for about day - This exercise was an amazingly illustration to me, but paradoxically, even the most aggressive de-programming, if only performed once, somehow doesn't really last. (or there is more to it than that - like perhaps toxic emotions that keep mucking things up)
But what you've said about your cardiolgist being confused ... yes. And here is what it boils down to. Assuming that this IS ultimately some form of TMS/Anxiety/, the fact that the doctors cannot advance a confidence-inspiring alternative and benign explanation for how such real, severe and discreet sysmptoms are part of an anxiety disorder, is part of the problem. In other words, the absence of any really good explanation as to why and how this is occurring the way it does, may itself be contributing to the problem.
And finally, after an echocardiogram, and two stress tests (not to mention countless ECG's) I did a non-invasive angiograpy and calcium scan. Result? Everything looks normal and my calcium score (an early marked of heart disease) was zero.
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| jerica |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 22:10:47
I've thought of that, too. Some of the payoff is a false sense of security (I know, it's weird.) I don't feel well when I feel well, I feel scared and vulnerable. I don't feel safe when I feel well. So a great part of this is the comfort it brings because at least when I'm feeling bad I'm already feeling it. It's not like I'm losing anything like when you feel well it's all when will the other shoe drop?
Like Hilary was saying about her father -- he doesn't feel guilty, he doesn't care what people think, he doesn't waste time and energy worrying or thinking bad thoughts that would hinder him.
I feel like I'm this person trying to feel safe and I can't. So I "need" this stuff as a way to go to docs and be reassured over and over and over and over and have them constantly tell me I'm ok I'm ok because on my own I don't think I am ok at all.
My therapist today was really interesting, we talked a lot about my father and my childhood and things I'm harboring inside. At the end of the session she said, "I think Sarno's onto something." We had talked about the physical stuff, blood tests and cholesterol and foods etc. but I don't like going there if I need to go full TMS. If I go TMS I want to do it fully and not even consider the medical. I need to put the medical aside.
I'm working on things. Felt better today and also noticed that my wrist and arm and chest muscles would hurt when I moved them in certain ways and some of that tightness in my chest seemed really muscular like stretching when I breathe and my shoulders being really tight and hurting which goes across my chest as well. I stoped holding my shoulders "up" (didn't even realize I was doing that) and felt the muscles across my chest just kinda ache like they weren't used to that.
I think I'm looking in the Sarno direction more now. I also am going to get his books from the library - they're on hold there no.
I think both of you Cat and Hilary are totally right. It is just that I need to pick this direction and go in it and not keep looking back and wondering if it was the right road to choose. |
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